Sekiro: Shadows Die Twice - Dark Souls with Narutofaggotry and bosses meaner than a Souls fan on prom night

[TerribleIdeas™]

And surprising absolutely no one, game journos are bad at the medium they discuss.
And I'm late.

FML.

 

[Violence Jack]

The tutorial is annoying. The constant text boxes were unwelcomed and reminded me of Mega Man X5. The constant interruptions of the story I didn't like. Once again, I'm weird, I don't care about the story in games. Just let me play. Let me skip through the bullshit. That's another reason why I like Souls because there's very little of it but if you care enough you can find it in the game's world.

Most of the Shinobi arts are completely worthless. The Ax you use a handful of times. Same with the Shurikan. Same with the Flame Vent. The Spear looks cool and I've heard it's good but... Almost every single enemy, especially bosses, just blocks or tanks through your bullshit. The Firecracker is maybe the only great Shinobi art because it can stun nearly every single boss and is great for mobs.

The tutorial stuff is amazingly shit. I was shocked when i was still getting tutorials at the end of the first "act" of the game. If i remember correctly I think they still show up in NG+. You can tell that activision had their fingers in from soft at one point begging them to make a concession on their gameplay philosophy.

After beating the game on my potato of a laptop i found that it was both easier and harder because of constant hitching and the fact that I flat out couldn't react to attacks. Not to mention my inputs getting eaten.

Another big issue i had are the ghost/apparition type enemies. You need to have a special item in order to hit them with your full attack power and you can only hold five at a time. So basically you have a set amount of tries that you can manage before you're forced to resupply. Granted most of these encounters are 'optional,' but it's just an added layer of tedium that is so backwards that Im stunned that it got through.

Also I'll second that some shinobi tools are hilariously situational. There are some that serve as hard counters to some of the more annoying enemies and are a boon on the second playthrough, but you really don't need any of them. From stated that due to this being a single player experience they didn't have to aggressively balance items as much as they would in Souls, but i feel like that's bullshit. Even with some of the counters to enemies they're still not a win button. They could've easily had the axe cleave and rip armor off like the spear. The dumb divine spirit away thing could've easily been rolled into the raven feather power etc. There's too much overlap and all the variety feels forced and unnecessary.

I still had fun with it despite playing the game at half speed. It definitely has that souls thing of your first playthrough is the longest.

 

[UE 558]

https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidt...ts-players-and-add-an-easy-mode/#7ad957a01639

It begins. Now to wait and see if Sekiro can rack up more "game" "journalist" crybabies whining about the difficulty than Cuphead did.

It’s weird knowing that guys who actually know what they’re doing like Paul Tassi and Erik Kain have to put up with assclowns like Dave Thier

 

[Solomon]

I think it's fair to say, based on the poll, that controllers are a lot more durable these days. While they do have other issues, the physical integrity of the modern controller is an improvement over the previous generation. Those things would crack if you set them down the wrong way.

 

[Eryngium]

View attachment 709335

And surprising absolutely no one, game journos are bad at the medium they discuss.
And I'm late.

FML.

The fucking irony is I can't think of a more disrespectful more things they could do to the fans then lower or add a way around the difficulty bar.

 

[UE 558]

The fucking irony is I can't think of a more disrespectful more things they could do to the fans then lower or add a way around the difficulty bar.

Tbf, many of the souls games usually had a class that was clearly meant to be “easy mode”, but like I said earlier, Thier is a stupid jackass, a notorious one at that

 

[Stab You in the Back]

Man I'm sick of multi-phase boss fights. Not only in this game but in general (I recently finished playing the remake of RE2 recently for point of reference). Is it too much to ask for a boss to just lay all his cards on the table and be up-front about exactly what it takes to beat him? If I have to hit him with 2 deathblows before finishing that's fine, but show me that from the get-go. None of this "just beat the giant farting ape down to a single deathblow, OH WAIT now beat him again but without his head" stuff.

I hate multiphase boss fights because I suck at Souls games and only win by overleveling the content. HOWEVER, I appreciate multiphase encounters because they act as an anti-cheese mechanism, forcing you to learn the mechanics and play the game the way it was intended to be played.

 

[ZB 584]

So I finally beat the game, after 30 hours; the last 4 hours spent on Ishinn. Hair-pullingly frustrating at times but that just makes the accomplishment sweeter. Beating a boss, after having died repeatedly, filled me with the sort of autistic glee I only ever get from other FromSoft games. Gonna need some time to collect my thoughts, but a great experience overall.

 

[BrunoMattei]

The tutorial stuff is amazingly shit. I was shocked when i was still getting tutorials at the end of the first "act" of the game. If i remember correctly I think they still show up in NG+. You can tell that activision had their fingers in from soft at one point begging them to make a concession on their gameplay philosophy.

I've been swimming around quite a bit and towards the end I dived into one bed of water and suddenly got a tutorial box on how to swim...

 

[MrTroll]

I hate multiphase boss fights because I suck at Souls games and only win by overleveling the content. HOWEVER, I appreciate multiphase encounters because they act as an anti-cheese mechanism, forcing you to learn the mechanics and play the game the way it was intended to be played.

Not really. You just need to learn 2 cheese strategies instead of 1 for a multi-phase fight.

 

[Tanner Glass]

Tbf, many of the souls games usually had a class that was clearly meant to be “easy mode”, but like I said earlier, Thier is a stupid jackass, a notorious one at that

Obligatory "easy mode" video.

 

[INVCTS]

So a mechanic that's subtle but been really helpful to me is that when a boss deflects an attack the next combo string they use is more limited than usual. The end boss in the second memory world was kicking my ass till I embraced using that mechanic to its fullest. It's likely why being aggressive is so important and does a decent job creating a tempo system.

Also, there's definitely some weird shit going on. Not to the extent of the Bloodborne or Dark Souls, but the Okami seem like Japanese themed Deep Ones. Still not entirely sure on the lore surrounding them or the Snake Eyes despite being almost at the Return Ending. Definitely playing ng+ if only to get the combined techniques.

Edit: Just saw this, but in the Headless Ape fight you can apparently yank the centipede out using the spear prosthetic for some large damage opportunities. I wonder if you can do the same to the third phase of the True Monk.

 

[BrunoMattei]

Yeah, I would definitely rank Sekiro below the Souls trilogy. To go into a little detail as to why I like Souls 1 the least of the trilogy: it mostly revolves around the placement of Bonfires, the lack of fast travel, and when you do get fast travel you can't just go to any Bonfire you visited, it has to be very specific Bonfires.

Because of that, you die at a boss and you have to walk all the way back which takes about 5 minutes to get back to the boss. Not all bosses but a good chunk of them. Need to talk to an NPC? You have to walk 5 minutes to get to that NPC from the closest Bonfire and then walk all the way back. Did you get Cursed? Well, now you have to go all the way to New Londo, there's no Bonfire anywhere, deal with ghosts you can't kill not unless you luck out and find a pretty underwhelming weapon with short range, and then talk to an NPC near the end of the level to remove the curse.

There's a lot of annoying back tracking in Souls 1 that I hate. That and I hate the lack of 8 way directional roll too. But at least Souls 1 like the others let you play however you wanted to play. First time I got to Artorias and I was a Souls scrub I just used the shield and blocked 90% of what he did. The fight took forever but I did beat him on my first try. When I got more confident and revisited him on NG+ I went without the shield and beat him on my 4th or 5th try with the Zweihander.

I think Sekiro will go down as the "brave experiment" of FROM's Souls legacy.

 

[Recoil]

View attachment 709335

And surprising absolutely no one, game journos are bad at the medium they discuss.
And I'm late.

FML.

No lie, this headline really pissed me off. I normally don't mind this kind of sentiment but for fucksake you're a games journalist you're here to play games you can't even do that right.
Why do these people have jobs?

 

[BrunoMattei]

For the first time ever I ran out of Emblems. FML.

I chose the bad ending and I'm just getting frustrated. The first phase isn't too bad. But you get frustrated because you just want to get to the 2nd phase already and rush the 1st phase and that causes you to fuck up. I'm really fucking sick and fucking tired of fucking multi-phase fights.

The extra salt in the wound is that FROM insists that you initiate the dialog and watch the cut scenes every fucking time. Ninja, I've seen it already, just skip the bullshit and let me play!

 

[KingofNothing]

View attachment 709335

And surprising absolutely no one, game journos are bad at the medium they discuss.
And I'm late.

FML.

And now we've gone full circle

No, 'Sekiro: Shadows Die Twice' Absolutely Does Not Need An Easy Mode

'Sekiro: Shadows Die Twice' is a game that teaches you how to overcome the odds and taste sweet victory. An easy mode would cheapen that experience.

www.forbes.com

My colleague Dave Thier is at it again: Calling for FromSoftware to add an easy mode to the studio's latest game, Sekiro: Shadows Die Twice.

The irony, of course, is that the game is—by default—set to easy mode. You can activate hard mode part way into the game. For the truly masochistic, that is an option. That is a choice.


Choice lies at the crux of Thier's argument. He argues that an easy mode would not change the experience for the many players who wish to play it in its pure form. The challenge would remain intact. Giving players choice would be a sign of respect.

I fundamentally disagree. For one thing, the option to turn down difficulty when stuck at a particularly hard boss (or mini-boss, as the case may be) would always be a temptation. It would be so simple to take the easy route. And then we would never learn what FromSoftware and game director Hidetaka Miyazaki hope we will learn: How to overcome the odds, and in so doing gift ourselves with a sense of pride and achievement.


The beauty of a Souls game, and of Sekiro, is in the mastery of the game's systems. I felt like a virgin again when I first began playing Sekiro. It was like I was a novice Souls player, killed for the very first time. But as the days have gone by and I've kept up my plodding pace through the game, I've found myself learning its deadly ballet.

Now I can dance, and oh what a feeling.

Sekiro: Shadows Die TwiceCredit: FromSoftware

I keep beating these foes that at first seemed insurmountable, not because I could change the difficulty setting or grind my way to a higher level or summon help online, but because I was persistent. I learned, inch by inch, from my mistakes. I found new skills that helped me in tricky situations (watch me Nightjar Slash, Lady Butterfly) new prosthetics that exposed an enemy's weakness, and better timing to effectively hew my way through the mobs.

Sekiro, like From's other titles, was teaching me through failure.

"Git gud" is a meme now, but it should never be used as an insult. Sekiro patiently teaches us how to improve, chiseling away our shortcomings and arming us with the tools we need to succeed. Like Dark Souls and Bloodborne, easy mode isn't a setting, it's something you become.

Easy mode is that moment when you realize that you've improved as a player. The game keeps getting harder, but you keep getting better alongside it. It's a vicious tango, player vs environment.

Here's a short snippet of me killing the purple ninja. I could never have done this when I first started the game. It was only after learning how combat worked on a much deeper level that I was able to take him down this fast (and this was not my first try.)


There's been something an online freakout over Dave's article, with the old and tired "game journalists can't play games" trope dragged out. That's silly and unbecoming. Anyone who calls themselves a Souls fan engaging in this should be ashamed. (Besides, game journalists—those knaves—have given Sekiro the best reviews of any game this year, tied with Resident Evil 2.)

FromSoftware doesn't want you to act this way. Remember, Sekiro is a teacher. It is teaching us how to master its systems through failure and persistence and it is doing so for our own benefit. One particularly thorny boss I finally took down left me literally whooping for joy and pumping my fists in the air. What a feeling!

Miyazaki has said in the past that he wants "to let players experience a sense of accomplishment through overcoming difficulties." The mountain is steep, but when you reach the top . . . the view is breathtaking, and all the more so for the climb.

(Read my interview with Hidetaka Miyazaki here. My first impressions of Sekiro are here.)

Sekiro: Shadows Die TwiceCredit: FromSoftware

That sense of accomplishment can be for anyone. Anyone can learn these systems. And we all travel the same path toward the finish line, at our own pace. There is no easy mode because it would rob us of that sense of accomplishment. There is no apple in the garden to tempt us from our noble path.

"It's worth saying, time and time again," Thier argues, "an easy mode does not have to change the core experience in any way, at all, period. Playing a version of Sekiro: Shadows Die Twice that had an easy mode would, theoretically, be completely identical to playing Sekiro: Shadows Die Twice now. The continued insistence that an easy mode would somehow affect the normal mode seems to represent a players lack of respect for themselves, an idea that they would not be able to play the game that they want without ruining it for themselves."

But this isn't just about those of us in the From fanboy camp. This is about every player. It isn't about taking away my experience in normal mode, it's about taking away Dave's experience in normal mode.

Anyone can learn to play this game. You can learn when to parry and when to jump and when to dodge out of the way. You can learn how to strike to wear down your enemy's Posture, and you can figure out ways to cheese the bosses through stealth attacks, special skills and so forth.

More to the point, the game will teach you and guide you along the way in a way that no other games really do. There's even decent tutorials this time around, and a guy who you can train with to your heart's content, improving your skills with no risk whatsoever.

Sekiro: Shadows Die TwiceCredit: FromSoftware

Not every game is going to appeal to everybody. Nor should they. Not everyone is going to love Sekiro: Shadows Die Twice. Many will be intimidated by its daunting challenge and steep learning curve. That's fine, if misguided. I would hope players will come to this game because they want a new challenge, not because they've been lured here with the promise of an easier setting.

Dave writes: "I'd say to From fans: believe in yourself. Know that you can play the game you want to play, even if others are playing the game they want to play."

I would simply retort: Believe in yourself. Know that you can play the game you think is too daunting to play, because we're all in this together, because you will learn to overcome and triumph. Do not be afraid, young padawans. You can learn this game's rhythms, too. You would be surprised by what you can achieve.

And when you do finally topple that impossible foe, without resorting to an easy mode—and in Sekiro, without summoning help—you will feel something truly special. Something unlike any other game.

You see, choice isn't all it's cracked out to be. Choice and respect aren't always interchangeable. We live in a world of endless choices, and not every choice heightens our dignity or self-respect. Sekiro offers us a reprieve by giving us no choice at all. Play or don't play.

This isn't just about the hardcore players getting the difficult game they desire; it's about the new players getting the game they deserve—the one they might have missed if they could have changed the difficulty setting to easy.

 

[BrunoMattei]

I beat Ishhin and got the bad ending. I might try NG+ Sunday or Monday.

As much shit as I give it I think Sekiro is at least better than all of the Souls ripoffs that have come out. Way better than Lords of the Fallen, the Surge and Ni-Oh.

 

[INVCTS]

I beat Ishhin and got the bad ending. I might try NG+ Sunday or Monday.

As much shit as I give it I think Sekiro is at least better than all of the Souls ripoffs that have come out. Way better than Lords of the Fallen, the Surge and Ni-Oh.

I'm assuming you're talking about the Shura ending. If so, there's still about 1/3 of the game left that you haven't had the chance to experience.

Just finished my first playthrough, got max gourds and then prayer beads. Kinda unsure if I should give Kuro his charm back or not.

Edit: Found an interesting post about the lore, not sure if I agree with all of it. https://www.reddit.com/r/Sekiro/comments/b78u86/whats_the_deal_with_the_mist_noble_end_game/

 

[⋖ cørdion ⋗]

How long are they gonna milk the Souls name? It's practically a Witcher action game now. Every other game has dodge rolls and reactionary moves. This might as well be a new IP unrelated to anything souls, but eyyy. FromSoftware; it's basically souls 4!

I'm a FPS kind of person, and even I finished DaS 2 ng+4. The whole meme about a game being hard these days is basically just "dying more than twice". Remember cheat codes? When did a game last have any of those? A game, to be good, has to be beatable by anyone. That's why people say it's hard, and why they demand an easy mode. They want to just follow the story, even though a lack hereof is what makes a Souls game brilliant.

 

[Slimy Time]

I beat Ishhin and got the bad ending. I might try NG+ Sunday or Monday.

As much shit as I give it I think Sekiro is at least better than all of the Souls ripoffs that have come out. Way better than Lords of the Fallen, the Surge and Ni-Oh.

Nioh went half way between Souls and this by trying to make it action based, you could do move, learn combos, do deathblows when they enemy ran out of stamina and the like, but you were still restricted by the stamina management aspect. Many of the normal enemies were just nonsense. Remember the Crow Tengu and how they can easily crush you no problem, and were more of a pain in the ass than most bosses?

I enjoy Sekiro. Is it limited compared to the other Souls games? Yes. Could the prosthetic weapons be more useful/be required more (with the exception of the firecracker)? Yes. Can it be a little repetitive? Sure.

However, there are many aspects that I do enjoy. The 3 dimensional level design which takes into account the stealth and grappling hook, the feeling you get when you deflect a combo and they game pulls a slight cinematic camera, making you feel like a badass. Those moments when you can do something like a Lightning Reversal, or get that death blow and it feels great. You don't really get those moments with the Souls games. You have the feeling of accomplishment when you beat a boss, but not the "I was a badass" while doing so. I get more of a Tenchu vibe playing this game than I do a souls game, especially after getting over the hurdle of how to play the game properly.

Part of me really hopes we get some DLC, might allow them to iron out some aspects and improve on many areas.