Shitty Alternate History Thread - If only the Romans had AK-47's they would've survived...

[KID NAMED SCHWARMAPUNK]

I see that and raise you this.

Spoiler

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I Don wanna read that AIDs. What's the Tl;Dr?

 

[John Merston]

I Don wanna read that AIDs. What's the Tl;Dr?

Trump dies of COVID in October 2020 and things spiral from there.

 

[Marshal Mannerheim]

I see that and raise you this.

Spoiler

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I'm basically convinced that "butterflies" on ah.com is just an excuse to bring about whatever the author wants to happen. Want Russia to be run by a bunch of troon anarchists? Easy, just have a slightly more competent Italian general staff. Want the evil chuds to kill wholesome 100 big chungus Bernie? Easy, just have Trump die in October. It doesn't matter how obviously ridiculous it is so long as you can justify it with "butterflies".

 

[Dagobert]

I'm basically convinced that "butterflies" on ah.com is just an excuse to bring about whatever the author wants to happen. Want Russia to be run by a bunch of troon anarchists? Easy, just have a slightly more competent Italian general staff. Want the evil chuds to kill wholesome 100 big chungus Bernie? Easy, just have Trump die in October. It doesn't matter how obviously ridiculous it is so long as you can justify it with "butterflies".

I will confess I've used "butterflies" as an excuse to take events down different paths even if it didn't directly correlate to the original POD. Usually I try to avoid it, but sometimes story takes precedent over direct realism.

I've never done it to make a better world though, almost always I do it to throw an even bigger wrench in affairs than existed OTL. It's probably just personal taste, but I find timelines that make the world "better" (according to the author's beliefs) to never be as good as something that gets worse. What Madness is This is far better than say Let the Eagle Scream because even though WMIT is fucking insane after the midpoint, it doesn't rely on moralfagging or agreeing with that author's rather pessimistic worldview to enjoy.

 

[Marshal Mannerheim]

I will confess I've used "butterflies" as an excuse to take events down different paths even if it didn't directly correlate to the original POD. Usually I try to avoid it, but sometimes story takes precedent over direct realism.

I've never done it to make a better world though, almost always I do it to throw an even bigger wrench in affairs than existed OTL. It's probably just personal taste, but I find timelines that make the world "better" (according to the author's beliefs) to never be as good as something that gets worse. What Madness is This is far better than say Let the Eagle Scream because even though WMIT is fucking insane after the midpoint, it doesn't rely on moralfagging or agreeing with that author's rather pessimistic worldview to enjoy.

Definitely. For All Time is better than AANW because AANW is basically Calbear building a world where America is a liberal and tolerant superpower that forces liberalism and tolerance on everyone at gunpoint and where nuking civilians is a good thing because, hey, they're scary evil right-wing populists from the wrong part of the world. For All Time is just what happens when you let anything that can go wrong go wrong and is worth reading purely because of that.

 

[KID NAMED SCHWARMAPUNK]

I've always wondered abt the possibility of extra/alternate Abrahamic Faiths.

Is something like an Islam-esque Viking 'successor' faith possible? Or one started by Berbers instead of Arabs?

what abt Constantine or his heirs making Christianity more militant and pagan, so that its more palatable to the legions?

What if the east-west split or the Reformation went REAL bad?

Oh and don't forget Manichaeism taking off like Wild-fire.

 

[Marshal Mannerheim]

Is something like an Islam-esque Viking 'successor' faith possible? Or one started by Berbers instead of Arabs?

Yes, but it would need the same good luck Islam had to become successful. The reason Islam did so well is because Mohammed took over Mecca and established Islam there while the Byzantines and the Persians were beating each other up and were exhausted from the war, and quickly took over some very prosperous regions of the Eastern Roman Empire which allowed it to supply itself. It's not like there was anything stopping Ragnarr from declaring that there were no gods apart from Thor and Ragnarr was his prophet, but any religion like that would just get crushed by other tribes unless it had the amazing run of luck Islam had.

what abt Constantine or his heirs making Christianity more militant and pagan, so that its more palatable to the legions?

Easier said than done. Roman emperors tried to influence Christianity (eg by making Arianism part of Christian doctrine). Lots of the Church simply said "lol, no". Remember that Christians had spent 300 years making it very clear that they would not accept paganism or sacrifice at pagan altars, which was part of the reason they were persecuted. They aren't just going to start praying to St Mars and St Mercury because a guy in a purple robe says so.

What if the east-west split or the Reformation went REAL bad?

If the Eastern Roman Empire tries to assert its authority over Rome then it gets its arse kicked. Robert Guiscard had already defeated the Byzantines in Italy. If they decide that the Pope needs to be replaced with a pro-Byzantine patriarch of Rome who accepts he's first among equals but that the Emperor gets a say in how the Church is run, then the Pope is not going to be happy. Like "this means war" not happy. The likeliest outcome would be the Turks expanding into Anatolia earlier because of the ERE's weakness and Orthodoxy dying very quickly except for (maybe) Russia.

It's hard to see how the Reformation could have been bloodier than it already was.

Oh and don't forget Manichaeism taking off like Wild-fire.

That happened - Manichaeism was as popular as Christianity for some time. It faded away because Manichaeus wrote a lot of stuff about astronomy that became part of Manichaean dogma and which was later shown to be false by people who knew about astronomy.

 

[Fuck Y'all]

I see that and raise you this.

Spoiler

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cursed timeline

 

[Zbk3VmLfujjzjxBd43tL]

That happened - Manichaeism was as popular as Christianity for some time. It faded away because Manichaeus wrote a lot of stuff about astronomy that became part of Manichaean dogma and which was later shown to be false by people who knew about astronomy.

It died out because it was persecuted by everyone besides like two or three Turkic khanates who made it their religion and the rare moments of tolerance. Astronomy didn't have anything to do with it, I mean the Bible refers to an earth which is fixed in place on foundations (1 Chronicles 16:30) and a flat disc (Isaiah 40:22) which the people who wrote the Bible literally believed (because it's an ancient Semitic belief) but the Ancient Greeks disproved that very early on.

 

[BootlegPopeye]

It died out because it was persecuted by everyone besides like two or three Turkic khanates who made it their religion and the rare moments of tolerance. Astronomy didn't have anything to do with it, I mean the Bible refers to an earth which is fixed in place on foundations (1 Chronicles 16:30) and a flat disc (Isaiah 40:22) which the people who wrote the Bible literally believed (because it's an ancient Semitic belief) but the Ancient Greeks disproved that very early on.

I would also argue that it died out because it had a weak and flaky hierarchy. It flourished only in areas with weak central governments ie western China where it finally died out, and didn't elevate their pope-like leader who I should add barely any of their names are known to history, to Ally with a friendly government for survival.

 

[Unyielding Stupidity]

I've always wondered abt the possibility of extra/alternate Abrahamic Faiths.

Is something like an Islam-esque Viking 'successor' faith possible? Or one started by Berbers instead of Arabs?

If any pagan European faith was going to end up creating it's own Abrahamic faith (or even their own organized faith), my money would be on the religion of the Gauls or Britons if anyone. According to ancient sources, they already had an organized and educated clergy that dealt with both religious and secular matters in the form of the druids. They were also within spitting distance of the incredibly wealthy lands of Italy, which could easily be the boost for them in the same way that Persia was for Islam.

 

[KID NAMED SCHWARMAPUNK]

If any pagan European faith was going to end up creating it's own Abrahamic faith (or even their own organized faith), my money would be on the religion of the Gauls or Britons if anyone. According to ancient sources, they already had an organized and educated clergy that dealt with both religious and secular matters in the form of the druids. They were also within spitting distance of the incredibly wealthy lands of Italy, which could easily be the boost for them in the same way that Persia was for Islam.

They even had green all over them too!

 

[Ughubughughughughughghlug]

If any pagan European faith was going to end up creating it's own Abrahamic faith (or even their own organized faith), my money would be on the religion of the Gauls or Britons if anyone. According to ancient sources, they already had an organized and educated clergy that dealt with both religious and secular matters in the form of the druids. They were also within spitting distance of the incredibly wealthy lands of Italy, which could easily be the boost for them in the same way that Persia was for Islam.

Based White Gaelic world where Vercingetorix kills Caesar, annihilates the Mediterranean race and Semitic religion, and gives everybody a redhead gf

 

[KID NAMED SCHWARMAPUNK]

I mean, if you know Madoka you'd know it's not about two lesbians fighting against imaginary space fascism with horrible illustrations. Shinbo would kill himself over this.

Out off everyone on SB and SV, there's literally one guy whom I could tolerate.
In fact, he's a big fat diamond in the shit.

 

[John Merston]

The longer you read, the worse it gets.

Spoiler: Spoilered for size

 

[Rezza]

The longer you read, the worse it gets.

Spoiler: Spoilered for size

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I demand the return of my time and IQ wasted reading this garbage. The twists are so stupid and sudden its quite hilarious

 

[KID NAMED SCHWARMAPUNK]

God, that piece of shit was so damn disappointing for such and odd and interesting premise.
I came in excited to see what kind of civilization could emerge in an environment where the day/night cycle is a year long and all i got was RAEP and Lovecraft references every 3rd sentence.

The earlier bits were pretty fascinating tho.
A few things I fondly remember were:

a society that discovers coal while desperately searching for heat sources, then begins living in mineshafts to take advantage of thermal stability? Huge communal furnaces becoming the core of their settlements, using them for central heating and mass kitchens whilst outlying areas outlaw fire due to combustion risks underground? That's awesome. Then they discover gunpowder from throwing shit into the fires, and one of the fire tenders manages to weaponise it*...which means that a few centuries later, rulers wear imposing robes and masks etc because their royal garments are literally blinged out PPE for furnace operators.

Crocodilian platypi!, giant war sloths and domestic penguins!

a Munchausen-esque Tsalal scifi novel from before European contact, where a guy travels to the North Pole on whales and giant birds, watches the ocean get hotter until the equator starts to boil, then finds himself in an upside down land where everyone has pale skin, builds towers in the air instead of cities in the ground, and wears clawed shoes to prevent themselves from falling into the sun

Then suddenly the author drops literal drop bears which shit in peoples eyes as a hunting tactic and you end up howling in laughter for a while.

*such as bronze age rocket launchaass!!!

 

[KID NAMED SCHWARMAPUNK]

@Marshal Mannerheim
"It's hard to see how the Reformation could have been bloodier than it already was."

What I mean was that something happens to make the nascent protestant movement split apart so far from mainstream Christianity, that becomes classified as a completely different Abrahamic faith.

Kinda like Cathars if they survived and had 8 more centuries to evolve, but put that 8 cents into 8 decades and a the more brutal continent wide holy civil war that was the Reformation.

*sorry for sounding so scattered, woke up real early today.
.

 

[KID NAMED SCHWARMAPUNK]

What do you guys think of The legacy of Saint Brendan?
Its basically abt this Irish monk accidentally discovering North America during 500 AD.
And then the timeline explores the next 1000 years of Irish (and then Viking) settlement of The New world and their interactions with the natives*. While also focusing on butterflies in the old.
I especially like how I understood all the little references to real history without googling anything.

*it also helps that you read it from the POV of different characters instead of slogging through a big fat infodump.

 

[Ughubughughughughughghlug]

I've always wondered abt the possibility of extra/alternate Abrahamic Faiths.

Is something like an Islam-esque Viking 'successor' faith possible? Or one started by Berbers instead of Arabs?

what abt Constantine or his heirs making Christianity more militant and pagan, so that its more palatable to the legions?

What if the east-west split or the Reformation went REAL bad?

Oh and don't forget Manichaeism taking off like Wild-fire.

Suppose Hong Xiuquan, the Brother of Jesus Christ, wins the Taiping Rebellion in the 1860s. Boom, a huge population base from which a China Confucian-Christian syncretic faith could grow into a world religion. It's unfair that we don't live in that time already.