Silent Hill

[Monster Energy Drink]

There was a wonderful video on YouTube years ago explaining how perfectly executed the prison section was in the original Silent Hill 2. Right down to things I'd never even consciously considered, like the camera being locked when you were in the prisoner's side of the visitor's area compared to it being movable when on the "free" side. There's a similar video floating about now, but it's not nearly as in depth.

 

[Deus Exica]

think I'd be harder on the SH2 remake though if I wasn't just tired of SH2 well over a decade before it was even a thing

The worst I can feel about it is ambivalent. The franchise has been stuck in SH2 remake mode since Origins. Westerners think battling your inner demons isn't a core facet of the SH mythos and not something that was specific to SH2's position in the overall timeline and James as a character.

If you're just going to keep getting "I killed someone and forgot omg muh demons!" Over and over might as well just cut out the fucking middle man and remake the game itself.

 

[derpherp2]

Oh right I finished the game a couple moments ago.
It's so fucking boring I was literally fucking around on my phone here on the last leg of the game. The hospital section killed any goodwill I had, and I barely had any to begin with.

Don't ask me for any concise opinions. My eyes glazed over after the upteenth depression-based psychotic freakout of the fat/raped/child/dog???/you'renotreal

 

[TATE MOOOOOOOOOOOOOOODE!!]

Westerners think battling your inner demons isn't a core facet of the SH mythos and not something that was specific to SH2's position in the overall timeline and James as a character.

Doesn't help big brain western critics like Yahtzee bitch and moans about the spiritual cult aspects "taking away the mystery and scares" of the games when:

A. It's a very Japanese cultural aspect lost on all the western developers and even the fans I think.

Saw some yt video I noped out of immediately when I heard the guy begin saying that's a dumb argument because the team was inspired by western works. Like no shit, they were clearly inspired by the likes of King and Koontz but Keiichiro Toyama was also heavily interested in the local myths and occult legends of his home country.

Alessa is very much a Japanese psychic girl trope.

B. If the cult stuff wasn't in it, then nothing would make sense and the town wouldn't be the way it is

If I played SH2 in a vacuum, I'd be questioning what the hell happened to town more than why did James get a letter one day from his dead wife.

Everything about what's happening in SH2 depends on what happened in the original, but the Hulette creators have people like the writer Sam Barlow going on about how they really don't like that baggage and admit they find SH1 confusing in interviews for Downpour.

Shattered Memories is probably the best example of "what exactly does this have to do with Silent Hill?" since it's so detached from everything that even hiding behind the term "reimagining" is misleading to how alien it is to the rest of the series.

I'll go to bat for the one thing I liked in Homecoming was the idea a group of people broke away from the cult under the agreement that they'll sacrifice their first born children.

Neat angle and ties back into the core idea decently enough but of course, can't go a game without some convoluted "i forgot something and now sh is spooking me til I remember" plot... not too mention using the miners from the movies and adding Saw elements.

Add to it Alex's character makes no sense since it turns out he was never a soldier but in a mental hospital this whole time.

 

[Dagoth AMOGUS]

Hey I think they should have added more enemies to the game this time around. Like which ones? That’s the fun part. They can pull from the huge list of fucked up monsters from silent hill’s universe, or make up something else.

That being said they really went all out making the three enemies really gross and creepy

Also the girl who did the mo-cap for Ashley in the resident evil 4 remake is in talks with Konami to portray Heather Mason for a possible silent hill 3 remake.

They joked that they would have to make her feminine features less obvious to look like Heather Mason lol, but sounds like they could have a TON of fun with the monsters in SH3 remake. Her “other world” converges with a lot of these sick, fucked in the head cultists. Not to mention plumbing the depths of a teenaged girls mind would be pretty horrifying already.

 

[X Prime]

You aren't supposed to pull monsters from the universe. The idea is that each games' monsters have something to do with a character in it.

 

[Dagoth AMOGUS]

You aren't supposed to pull monsters from the universe. The idea is that each games' monsters have something to do with a character in it.

But I wanna fight a variety of abominations

 

[lichen]

If I played SH2 in a vacuum, I'd be questioning what the hell happened to town more than why did James get a letter one day from his dead wife.

The game tries to do a lot to set up the town as a place that's generally spiritually damaged/fucked. It works without the cult, which is almost entirely unreferenced in the original SH2. I thought that was one of its strengths - not because I don't like the cult, but it does give the town more depth as a place with a deeply spiritual history that continues to impact the town in modern times. It made the town mysterious again, since not every strange thing seems to be tied back to the cult.

I'm just past the daddy fight in Remake. I think it pulls off the fog world wonderfully, but it falls apart in the dungeons. Your field of vision is pretty narrow, and in dark environments it's hard to see much properly. This might add to the ambience, but there's so many enemies that it becomes aggravating (how many times have I started swinging at one enemy to realize that there were two more I couldn't have possibly seen eating my ass?) and which in turn ruins the immersion. I'm checking every room I enter because I want to avoid being annoyed by another confrontation, not out of fear or anxiety. I'm not sure if the environments have been made bigger (aside from the prison obviously), or if the added combat just pads things. I'll finish it once then watch the other endings on youtube.

Oh, and if I need to knock down one more fucking wall, or reach into one more hole...

 

[Deus Exica]

Doesn't help big brain western critics like Yahtzee bitch and moans about the spiritual cult aspects "taking away the mystery and scares" of the games when:

Yes, I lay the blame for this take mostly at Yahtzee's feet. His big brained take that Silent Hill is scarier when it's a bizarre malicious force with no explanation (despite the fact that there always was, he just never played SH1) effectively ruined the franchise, since it turned many potential stories into one stuck on repeat.

I don't know about anyone else, but I find the concept of an ancient spiritual power being perverted by a cult's machinations and the sacrifice of an innocent child to give birth to a very real demonic entity that, even after the cult is effectively defeated in SH1, is STILL trying to find a way into our world by luring the sinful and the mentally unwell into Silent Hill far more interesting than "its literally purgatory bro."

I'll go to bat for the one thing I liked in Homecoming was the idea a group of people broke away from the cult under the agreement that they'll sacrifice their first born children.

Homecoming at least ran with the cult angle to try and expand things outward rather than trimming shit back. Despite its myriad of problems, I do have a bit of a soft spot for Homecoming, out of all the western SH games it seems to be the closest to the originals in terms of tone and plot.

Even then, the actual twist and chief motivation of the protagonist is that Alex accidentally an hero'd his brother and forgot. The drama surrounding this, though, is still infinitely better than anything in Downpour or Origins.

Like you said with Shattered Memories having no reason to be a SH game, it's perfectly emblematic of how much Hulet and his gaggle of faggots hated the cult angle. They went back to the premise of SH 1 and excised that element from the narrative entirely in favor of... Harry died and Cheryl forgot.

You aren't supposed to pull monsters from the universe. The idea is that each games' monsters have something to do with a character in it.

While true, if they were going to turn SH2 into an action game they should have thrown in some more original designs.

 

[Local FloRida-man]

I will say, if SH ever goes back to the cult aspects I'd want it from Japanese devs. Judging by the recent spate of cult-centiric movies Hollywood has been pushing out, the average westerners understanding of cult horror is "a 40 year old cult has managed to convince everyone they speak with to worship some random demon with a stupid name that is both all powerful and needs to keep its existence a a closely guarded secret" all of them are like this, and it's really stupid and boring.

Well, except for the dumbass "elevated horror" genre where the demons and cults are just allegories for depression/alcoholism/hating your parents (i.e. silent hill 2)

I really prefer Japanese cult movies where the cults are more like really organized and cleanly hillbillies who managed to stake out a bit of land for themselves.

 

[Deus Exica]

I will say, if SH ever goes back to the cult aspects I'd want it from Japanese devs

I am hoping that Silent Hill F will have something to do with the cult and that's supposed to be Japanese lead from what I understand. Hopefully that game is still happening.

Japan, and Asia as a whole, has a pretty interesting history with cults that is actually pretty terrifying and compelling. It would actually make a lot of sense if some part of The Order ventured out into other parts of the world to find ancient spiritual powers and set up shop in some small Japanese country town.

 

[Local FloRida-man]

I am hoping that Silent Hill F will have something to do with the cult and that's supposed to be Japanese lead from what I understand. Hopefully that game is still happening.

Japan, and Asia as a whole, has a pretty interesting history with cults that is actually pretty terrifying and compelling. It would actually make a lot of sense if some part of The Order ventured out into other parts of the world to find ancient spiritual powers and set up shop in some small Japanese country town.

I'm hoping SHF will fill the hole left behind by end of the classic fatal frame trilogy.

The order was based on shinto traditions anyway right? The town god is just a river/mountain/shrine god that was raped by suburban soccer moms one too many times. Transferring that back to Japan should work fine. The only way they could fuck it up is if they tried to make it an origin story for the town or something.

 

[Evil Peter Griffin]

The worst I can feel about it is ambivalent. The franchise has been stuck in SH2 remake mode since Origins. Westerners think battling your inner demons isn't a core facet of the SH mythos and not something that was specific to SH2's position in the overall timeline and James as a character.

If you're just going to keep getting "I killed someone and forgot omg muh demons!" Over and over might as well just cut out the fucking middle man and remake the game itself.

Silent Hill is either fight your demons or fight the cult.

 

[UrbanBeard]

It's hilarious how they made Maria go from this slutty succubus to this big headed HR cunt.

Callously toying with you < Disinterestedly condescending to you, obviously.

Since the release, has the prices for the original dropped in any meaningful way?

dunno about the console releases, but the PC version on Myabandonware ain't going nowhere and the Enhanced Edition mod is right there.

 

[Illuminati Order Official]

Yes, I lay the blame for this take mostly at Yahtzee's feet. His big brained take that Silent Hill is scarier when it's a bizarre malicious force with no explanation (despite the fact that there always was, he just never played SH1) effectively ruined the franchise, since it turned many potential stories into one stuck on repeat.

That's funny because the best game Yahtzee made borrows Silent Hill's reality shifting mechanics and it happens because a cult is trying to bring their god to our reality.

 

[X Prime]

Yes, I lay the blame for this take mostly at Yahtzee's feet. His big brained take that Silent Hill is scarier when it's a bizarre malicious force with no explanation (despite the fact that there always was, he just never played SH1) effectively ruined the franchise, since it turned many potential stories into one stuck on repeat.

Something Awful ruined everything in the modern day, example number...

 

[wholetthegodsout]

The ultimate problem with SH series is it is tied to the town, and that gets progressively less interesting from a gameplay perspective. That is reason why pretty much all the games started exploring places outside of silent hill. How many times can you keep exploring abandoned silent hill and make it interesting? How many dark hospitals and schools can you have as levels? I dont think this is something even the original creators were able to solve event though they made valiant efforts with something like silent hill 4.

 

[lichen]

The ultimate problem with SH series is it is tied to the town, and that gets progressively less interesting from a gameplay perspective. That is reason why pretty much all the games started exploring places outside of silent hill. How many times can you keep exploring abandoned silent hill and make it interesting? How many dark hospitals and schools can you have as levels? I dont think this is something even the original creators were able to solve event though they made valiant efforts with something like silent hill 4.

I think it's simply a problem with tying horror a horror franchise to the concept of this small unassuming town hosting dark supernatural events. Silent Hill 3 was already rubbing up against the limits of this both because it reused the hospital and because the sewers and office building are both crappy environments environments (I don't love the mall, but it works as the opening setting for Heather's normal life turning upside down). There's a fairly small number of things that exist in a small town and that are easily used for horror, and eventually you milk your setting dry. But the games that take the action out of the town all fail to feel like suitable Silent Hill games (even 4 is an obvious black sheep even if it's got a lot of redeeming qualities), I don't think it's an inherent problem with the series as as much as it is a problem with the idea that the series should continue - the only winning play is to let the series reach its natural stopping point and stop.

The original team did find ways around it - the prison works in SH2 because it's part of the labyrinth, and because it's thematically so perfect. But you can't pull that trick more than once or twice without it feeling like a cop out. (Separately - putting Silent Hill in Maine makes the idea of a civil war prison in the town seem weird, but I don't know enough about the history to know if that's actually unrealistic)

 

[Rotollo 2]

Just finished Sh2 remake (well, got the leave ending at least), will say this, probably one of my favorite remakes of the current regurgitation era. I kinda view it as a different take on the same story and as that is concerned its pretty ok. not sure how much of it is due to blooper and how much it is the foundation laid by the original game being super solid. will say I love the combat, it is controllable enough but still gives you feelings of helplessness, its not like RE 2 R where I feel too competent if that makes sense. feels like James is just an average dude, and on that note, his acting got rough but he really did improve for me as the game went on, he's not like troy baker in HD collection where he feels like "generic anime protag man" voicing James. music is on point as Akira Yamaoka always is, really enjoyed the ending version of theme of laura.
the title screen and intro video are missed though, those two set the tone of the game alot better than just a static shot of the background that only changes once you beat the game.
also the way the game loaded shit really made it feel like the first game that actually felt next gen that I've played, games like Spiderman 2 and starfield tried to be these genre defining things but both underwelmed me alot. really enjoyed the recent yakuza games but they felt held back by having to also run on last gen consoles. I'm interested to see what blooper does next for the franchise because it seems konami is trying to give the series out to as many places as they can with F and townfall. hopefully that ends better than the last time they farmed that shit out.

I think it's simply a problem with tying horror a horror franchise to the concept of this small unassuming town hosting dark supernatural events. Silent Hill 3 was already rubbing up against the limits of this both because it reused the hospital and because the sewers and office building are both crappy environments environments (I don't love the mall, but it works as the opening setting for Heather's normal life turning upside down). There's a fairly small number of things that exist in a small town and that are easily used for horror, and eventually you milk your setting dry. But the games that take the action out of the town all fail to feel like suitable Silent Hill games (even 4 is an obvious black sheep even if it's got a lot of redeeming qualities), I don't think it's an inherent problem with the series as as much as it is a problem with the idea that the series should continue - the only winning play is to let the series reach its natural stopping point and stop.

I do think there is something to be said of the cult's effects slowly branching out of its control and into other places like 4 did, think sorta like how a lot of spiritual stories have an origin point that gets spread around over time, that "Silent Hill Effect" shit the message did was clunky as fuck but as a concept I still think there is a way it can be executed interestingly.
Hear me out boys: a Silent Hill game where you play as Ghost Doctor: Chris Bores

 

[cactus]

I'm hoping SHF will fill the hole left behind by end of the classic fatal frame trilogy.

The order was based on shinto traditions anyway right? The town god is just a river/mountain/shrine god that was raped by suburban soccer moms one too many times. Transferring that back to Japan should work fine. The only way they could fuck it up is if they tried to make it an origin story for the town or something.

Fatal Frame has 5 games, are you not keeping up with the franchise?

The Order spreading to Japan makes no sense, considering most Western cults did not make it to Japan, and F should be it's own title.