Silent Hill

[Nameless One]

In 3 the teachings are changed to say that Alessa was their god all along. There's a recording you find at the end of Vincent explaining the new teachings.

Those are the new teachings though, in 3 it was Claudia/Vincent's new spin on the existing cult, the remaining cult reformed into different practices from the cult of 1, 2 and 4. It does not, should not retroactively change the narrative of 1 because that cult was not the same as Claudia or Vincent's sect.
None of what the cult worships is exactly "true" imo either and I believe the nightmare of Alessa gives them power. Prior to it, they used drugs to control townsfolk. Their Gods all died despite the apparent power.

 

[Scarthew]

Those are the new teachings though, in 3 it was Claudia/Vincent's new spin on the existing cult, the remaining cult reformed into different practices from the cult of 1, 2 and 4. It does not, should not retroactively change the narrative of 1.

It doesn't, are you even reading my posts? In 1 they worship satan.

 

[Scarthew]

Also it only takes the form of Samael in one of the endings and it is not the same one from the Bible.

The god takes the form of Satan in all the endings the god appears in (2 btw, not 1). In the bad endings you are fighting Alessa, not the god.

 

[Nameless One]

It doesn't, are you even reading my posts? In 1 they worship satan.

Show me where. They worship something similar but they never name Satan. And in 2 the reference to Christians persecuting Jennifer Caroll is covered up.

In 2 the final boss takes a messed up form of Mother Mary visually, in 1 the final boss takes the form of a baphomet inspired demon, in 3 its malformed Alessa obviously because Claudia became the host. In 4 the final boss is probably Walter being reborn as God or his mother, its all within a nightmare though.

 

[Scarthew]

They worship something similar but they never name Satan.

They use the name Samael, who is Satan by another name.

The concept art of the creature has him set in front of a pentagram with the name "Samael" written in the outer ring of the pentagram...

This is a famous depiction of Baphomet Aka Satan, Aka Samael. Notice the pentagram, goat head and pose cross legged, blackened wings, 1 hand to the air and one pointing down. Samael is just his Talmudic name. Much like the Talmud keys/doors in SH1's otherworld as well as Metatron.

Their god is named Samael. Samael = Satan.

 

[Nameless One]

If you're using twin perfects vid as a source then Baphomet, Samael and Metatron aren't satan, they're 4 separate entities. The name Samael comes from Origins which isn't canonical. All of your info hinges on whether the team used those exact modern interpretations or not which is impossible to really know. Furthermore, Keiichiro Toyama and the team used Eastern influences when writing the cult itself, and siren expands on the ideas of SH1. These names are all pretty much references at best to people who know about religion, a mix of random shit they read about.

Dahlia called the Seal Of Metatron the "mark of Samael" to trick Harry.

 

[Maniacal Foreigner]

They use the name Samael, who is Satan by another name.
View attachment 6903657
The concept art of the creature has him set in front of a pentagram with the name "Samael" written in the outer ring of the pentagram...
View attachment 6903660
This is a famous depiction of Baphomet Aka Satan, Aka Samael. Notice the pentagram, goat head and pose cross legged, blackened wings, 1 hand to the air and one pointing down. Samael is just his Talmudic name. Much like the Talmud keys/doors in SH1's otherworld as well as Metatron.
View attachment 6903680
Their god is named Samael. Samael = Satan.

Baphomet is not Satan. Neither is Lucifer.

 

[Nameless One]

Additionally pentagrams only relate to Satan in modern fuckery of the past 150 years. Research more occult history.

 

[Scarthew]

If you're using twin perfects vid as a source

I've cited all my sources.

The name Samael comes from Origins

No it comes directly from SH1 in spoken word from Dahlia and in it's concept art where it literally has his title in his pentagram symbol.

Additionally pentagrams only relate to Satan in modern fuckery of the past 150 years. Research more occult history.

The game was made in the last 150 years.

 

[Nameless One]

Okay, satan is pretty much synonymous with evil and corruption anyways so I'm not gonna argue.

 

[Saxxon]

She never resurrects the dead.

Sorry for reviving this discussion but Lisa disagrees, well we know for sure that despite whatever the Lisa we get to met in the game actually is, she possesses information that only the real Lisa would know and also shows emotion like worry or fear and since it's pretty well established that everything we are seeing is a product of Alessa's nightmare, you can say that in fact she can resurrect the dead... to a certain extend. It's kind like Maria in 2, she's in many ways Mary but at the same time Mary is NOT Maria but Maria can be Mary if James wishes.

Really is just the games trying to fuck with your mind.

 

[Nameless One]

Sorry for reviving this discussion but Lisa disagrees, well we know for sure that despite whatever the Lisa we get to met in the game actually is, she possesses information that only the real Lisa would know and also shows emotion like worry or fear and since it's pretty well established that everything we are seeing is a product of Alessa's nightmare, you can say that in fact she can resurrect the dead... to a certain extend. It's kind like Maria in 2, she's in many ways Mary but at the same time Mary is NOT Maria but Maria can be Mary if James wishes.

Really is just the games trying to fuck with your mind.

Actually it's explained in 2 basically. It is likely an aspect of the town's original power to resurrect the dead combined (corrupted) with Alessa's nightmare (manifestations). Lisa was a real physical being reborn with the town's power and Alessa's nightmare, and she is even still "alive" and drags Kaufmann to their presumable final death in an ending. Maria is both a manifestation and a real reborn in the flesh being to James and her own existence as revealed in Born From A Wish because Alessa's nightmare is at its strongest in 2 to the point of non-psychic characters projecting their own delusions, nightmares and mental states onto the town.

Technically every silent hill game that copies 2 after the team silent era is just plain wrong about everything. The mental shit should have stayed unique to 2. In 4 they did a cooler concept, having a DEAD serial killer in power and traverse HIS fucked up mind and dreams WHILE being affiliated with the cult, Walter being a heretic of the cult itself (unused glowing blue Halo Of The Sun in the files of 4), who tries to become his own God reborn and succeeds in its most interesting ending. And it all ties back to 2.

 

[X Prime]

Why would the nightmare be strongest in 2 again? Alessa is gone.

I must ask where that is coming from.

 

[Scarthew]

Sorry for reviving this discussion but Lisa disagrees, well we know for sure that despite whatever the Lisa we get to met in the game actually is, she possesses information that only the real Lisa would know and also shows emotion like worry or fear and since it's pretty well established that everything we are seeing is a product of Alessa's nightmare, you can say that in fact she can resurrect the dead... to a certain extend. It's kind like Maria in 2, she's in many ways Mary but at the same time Mary is NOT Maria but Maria can be Mary if James wishes.

Really is just the games trying to fuck with your mind.

That's Lisa as Alessa remembers her, not actually Lisa and Alessa uses her as a mouth piece to assist Harry explaining to him what's going on.

That's the same as Maria, who is "born from a wish". She's not Mary she's just a crude aproximation of her made from James' mind.

 

[Brain Problems]

echnically every silent hill game that copies 2 after the team silent era is just plain wrong about everything. The mental shit should have stayed unique to 2. In 4 they did a cooler concept, having a DEAD serial killer in power and traverse HIS fucked up mind and dreams WHILE being affiliated with the cult, Walter being a heretic of the cult itself (unused glowing blue Halo Of The Sun in the files of 4), who tries to become his own God reborn and succeeds in its most interesting ending. And it all ties back to 2.

It may sound heretical to the thread but I honestly think about 4's story more than any other entry in the series. It's a textbook example of making a sequel that expands and runs with the previous entries' stories without taking a giant shit on the lore or lapsing into 'member berries. Shame about a lot of the gameplay.

 

[Nameless One]

Why would the nightmare be strongest in 2 again? Alessa is gone.

I must ask where that is coming from.

Because of the lost memories book and maybe Twin Perfect. I think TP were flawed but the gist is
After Harry leaves with heather in 1, the other ‘half’ of Alessa is still in silent hill. So silent hill kind of stays in a strange limbo state that is never fully explained (which would tie into 2 if 2 takes place after 1 and explain its oddities from the rest). I assume its at its "strongest" due to these characters filling in whatever that power could be. Strong isn't the word to describe it though, sorry. In 3 that is why the cult brings heather back to the town - to bring the ‘halves’ of alessa together and fully awaken this dormant force.
In 4 it kind of skewed the power again. Walter has completely different methods of channeling these forces. With the way the characters in SH2 interact with the town it instead shows that the team seemed more interested in this ambiguous powerful force that could change the town in different ways.

 

[X Prime]

It may sound heretical to the thread but I honestly think about 4's story more than any other entry in the series. It's a textbook example of making a sequel that expands and runs with the previous entries' stories without taking a giant shit on the lore or lapsing into 'member berries. Shame about a lot of the gameplay.

I actually agree with this. The Room had a good foundation of ideas but screwed up the actual execution. It's kind of a shame that a lot of the explanation for what's going on has to be found in outside-the-game materials, yet in other ways it enhances the experience because you get rewarded for digging.

 

[Nameless One]

I actually agree with this. The Room had a good foundation of ideas but screwed up the actual execution. It's kind of a shame that a lot of the explanation for what's going on has to be found in outside-the-game materials, yet in other ways it enhances the experience because you get rewarded for digging.

Yeah feels much better than all the SH2 remake ARG slop. Because now you know way more about Walter's motives and the ghosts backstories like how Walter met Cynthia when she was a kid/teen on the train and he waited like a decade or so to murder her just because she caught his eye. I believe it was cut content since it lists the items they drop or "left behind" that never go used. Maybe they would have been used for the final boss or if you used the sword of obedience on specific ghosts? Idk.

 

[Nameless One]

I have a deeper appreciation for Silent Hill 3's otherworld now that I noticed details that are hard to find in SH1's environment. Insane how they made this work on PlayStation with so many details that form Alessa's Nightmare. Meanwhile Resident Evil had to wait until like dreamcast with Code Veronica to have fully 3d rendered levels.

Most newcomers and such aren't even aware of Silent Hill's camera controls. Which means they will go the entire game like this.
And never learn they can flip the camera to appreciate the rooms better to see obscured details you can't see without using the camera (L2).



Team Silent's games had legendary environmental storytelling especially for their era.
Bonus:

 

[Soycast Guy]

I was looking at a YouTube video for silent hill 3 (watermark lol) and it’s amazing the amount of detail that went into this game. It’s easily one of the best looking games on the ps2. Still impressive today honestly. I knew I wasn’t crazy when I thought these games looked real as a kid.

Nu-silent hill just doesn’t compare.