CascadeBetaToday at 11:59 AM
Last thing I'm gonna say because I need to get back is the reason why I signed up for mod here is because the SA trans community was basically destroyed over the past month by the refusal of admins to act or make decisions they personally didn't like and instead doing 80/20 compromises then whining about us uppity bitches when we weren't happy.
Not all of us signed up for this for the same reason.
smarxistToday at 12:00 PM
I think we have an incredibly intelligent and thoughtful userbase and it has spoiled us a bit in letting us be lazy for coming together on a concrete vision for exactly how we want the community to be moderated, so we probably need to have that discussion noww
CascadeBetaToday at 12:00 PM
Totally open and free decision is great on paper but in queer spaces it does need to be watched and be willing to be acted upon swiftly to not tolerate bullshit and hatred
Well I've gotta step for a bit
SnapplesToday at 12:01 PM
Yeah I'm at work and phone is not conducive for this lol
smarxistToday at 12:01 PM
I also think the community should be involved in that discussion as much as possible
Buck WildmanToday at 12:01 PM
this reinforces the need to nail down jurisdiction before we even think of going public imo
CascadeBetaToday at 12:01 PM
I have a zero tolerance policy in the queer spaces for any sort of potentially transphobic or otherwise bigoted "jokes" and if I get overridden by someone who doesn't know the score they're gonna have a storm coming.
Chairman Daou ZedongToday at 12:01 PM
Succ Zone is my jurisdiction
smarxistToday at 12:01 PM
Pretty much I think we should probably have a big "moderation goals" discussion on the forum first, with everyone involved, then put together some guiding principles and have them up for discussion too
Buck WildmanToday at 12:02 PM
if wampa is officially in charge then I think you need to not be overriding his decisions without questioning them among us first
smarxistToday at 12:03 PM
I don't remember agreeing to not have any moderation or input on what happens in the succ zone
Chairman Daou ZedongToday at 12:03 PM
it's right in the thread
https://breadnroses.club/threads/separation-of-duties.246/
we discussed this days/weeks ago
oh sorry
nvm that's not what you're saying
smarxistToday at 12:04 PM
i've avoided that thread like the plague
Chairman Daou ZedongToday at 12:04 PM
you can certainly have input on succ zone but you shouldn't just get to automatically override my decision
but we all agreed we'll discuss it in here first the next time this happens
Buck WildmanToday at 12:05 PM
ok then
but wait
WHO'S WATCHING CHILL ZONE klaxons sound, chill zone busts out of cell and starts ripping off mod heads
smarxistToday at 12:08 PM
i just peeked into the chill zone and everyone is whooping it up nude around a big fire and venerting hitler
we're going to quarantine
Buck WildmanToday at 12:10 PM
finally a chance to wear my new riot visor
Buck WildmanToday at 12:20 PM
Sunny thinks Jungian psychology is hippy shit btw so I'm officially at a loss
Chairman Daou ZedongToday at 12:21 PM
my mom is phone banking for Bernie right now
Buck WildmanToday at 12:21 PM
good for her
Chairman Daou ZedongToday at 12:21 PM
right? This is a woman who voted for McCain in 2008
I turned her full Bernard Sibling
and re: sunny, she's saying she wants normal cbt therapy, i get her point
i think it was phrased a little jokingly
smarxistToday at 12:22 PM
i'm gonna draft a thread to post later on early evening about moderation goals
when people are off work and shit
or if someone else wants to they can
Chairman Daou ZedongToday at 12:23 PM
in the mod forum or public?
smarxistToday at 12:24 PM
public
i feel like a big general discussion where we get a lot of viewpoints first would be good
then we can draft some kind of guiding doc
i'm open to suggestion for a different approach
Chairman Daou ZedongToday at 12:25 PM
i'm burnt out on this topic for now
smarxistToday at 12:25 PM
lawl
we'll talk about it later
Buck WildmanToday at 12:26 PM
let's let this cool, yeah
CascadeBetaToday at 1:07 PM
I'm glad we left that thread open so we can talk about how it's cool to call Pete a fake gay
That's surely a good idea
Most of the time I see that kind of bullshit it's being coopted by straight idiots going no its okay cause a queer person said it first
Buck WildmanToday at 1:09 PM
punish anyone who says that imo
CascadeBetaToday at 1:09 PM
I look forward to the hour long fight if I do
Also I can't probate smarxist so
Buck WildmanToday at 1:10 PM
there's plenty of shit to shovel on booty without some homophobic conspiracy theory
CascadeBetaToday at 1:11 PM
Good thing he's making effort posts justifying why it's okay
Buck WildmanToday at 1:11 PM
It's not
CascadeBetaToday at 1:12 PM
Also I think an unspoken element of the "fake gay" lines is that Pete is an establishment shill bootlicker empty suit fucko, like so WHAT if you're gay? He literally endorsed a candidate who was against same sex marriage because it helped his political career to do so. The gay community has every right to reject him to whatever degree they want based on that alone I feel, the rest of it just taking out the garbage at that point no? I don't know.
Really? Because that's how shit like this comes across to me
SnapplesToday at 1:13 PM
I think Buck meant that it's not okay, and it definitely fucking ain't
Buck WildmanToday at 1:13 PM
that's what I meant sorry if there was a miscommunication
CascadeBetaToday at 1:13 PM
Sorry
Buck WildmanToday at 1:14 PM
I emphatically disapprove of this bullshit
SnapplesToday at 1:14 PM
It's fine this is a :staredog: thing
CascadeBetaToday at 1:14 PM
It's funny how smarxist claims to not id or speak for the queer community then turns around and does this shit
smarxistToday at 1:15 PM
I don't think it's ok to make those jokes, mostly I'm trying to understand why I see them and most often from queer folks, I'm sorry if I didn't get that across well enough
CascadeBetaToday at 1:15 PM
yeah, that's why I'm reluctant to police it at all. i've literally only seen queer/gay people making that joke, which is the weirdest fucking thing
smarxistToday at 1:15 PM
I thought we were having a pretty nuanced discussion
I said that because I've seen exactly one report about a "pete isn't gay" post on B+R and it was someone reporting a trans woman
CascadeBetaToday at 1:15 PM
Again, the only fuckers I see making those kinds of bigoted bullshit statements are idiot straights who are using it to attack a gay person for being gay
And are being Lal no it's okay a queer person. Said it first
And that fucking sucks!!
It sucks even if they're trans
No fucking gate keeping
None.
He can be shitty independently of being a gay man
smarxistToday at 1:16 PM
I agree with you that it's not a straight person's domain to make those observations or jokes, but I honestly didn't feel comfortable hitting a trans person with a probe for that, and that might be part of what we need to calibrate w/r/t to moderation
CascadeBetaToday at 1:17 PM
Linking the two together is fucking homophobic
Then fucking ask me and Ill give you permission
If you don't feel comfortable making decisions about queer people
SnapplesToday at 1:19 PM
Yeah it's a situation where I don't like it at all but get oof on enforcement when it comes from queer folks. I'm in process of coming to terms with actually being bi instead of a unique deviant looking for validation from actual bi folks and as such am not involved in those communities
smarxistToday at 1:19 PM
Cas i get you're fired up, but at least grant that there's a discussion that people want to have
about the subject
if not making the jokes at least trying to understand where they come from/start and their impact
CascadeBetaToday at 1:22 PM
It seems mostly like the discussion is that particular line of attack sucks!
So in that case why is it a discussion at all?
It doesn't need a counterpoint of someone going ACTUALLY I THINK IT'S GOOD TO BE HOMOPHOBIC AND HERE'S WHY
Is that your idea of unfettered discussion? Because that kind of really sucks ass
Buck WildmanToday at 1:24 PM
I'm sorry smarxist but I agree with cascade on this
it shouldn't be tolerated from anyone
smarxistToday at 1:26 PM
I think everyone agrees that it sucks but also they want to talk about why its happening with Pete in particular and why it's not being repudiated as toxic gatekeeping more. The only other thing I can really do aside from let the discussion happen is say "Questioning Pete's self ID as a gay man is toxic gatekeeping QED" and pitch the thread into the bin. if you want me to do that, I'll yield to your authority on the matter
and also probe any reports i see of it, queer person or not
CascadeBetaToday at 1:27 PM
Fuck off no that isn't the only thing you can do
Jfc
smarxistToday at 1:27 PM
So what do you want me to do? i'm asking honestly
CascadeBetaToday at 1:27 PM
Stop trying to make me the bad guy in this
You don't have to pitch the thread into the fucking bin by locking off that avenue of discussion
For starters
It isn't a fucking all or nothing thing
smarxistToday at 1:28 PM
well, I was about to post something to the effect that gatekeeping is bad
here's where i'm at with it
CascadeBetaToday at 1:28 PM
That isn't even shutting down discussion about why it's happening
It locks out any fucking idiot bigots who might be lurking from chiming in with some dogwhistling though and let's everyone else know what the score is about that type of bullshit
smarxistToday at 1:29 PM
well do you think i'm on the right track with my post?
CascadeBetaToday at 1:30 PM
Yeah go for it, just put your money where your mouth is
smarxistToday at 1:30 PM
ma'am, i'm broke
CascadeBetaToday at 1:30 PM
Instead of making wishy washy defenses in that thread
"we're all so used to giving the benefit of the doubt for self-ID that when a case like Pete comes along it strains the boundaries of reason"
Never say anything like this ever again @smarxist
Ever
That's why I question my ability to do my fucking job on the forums when you're willing to overstep and override on an arbitrary whim
SnapplesToday at 1:34 PM
Yeah I think the discussion of why is fine from an informational standpoint but it really does need to be enforced that the gatekeeping is absolutely not ok. It very much is a fine as hell needle to thread tho and needs to be moderated with a willingness to pull the trigger on dogwhistles and up
CascadeBetaToday at 1:35 PM
Like if a normal user said that I'd ban them no questions asked
That's fucking appalling
smarxistToday at 1:35 PM
...
CascadeBetaToday at 1:36 PM
You got a problem with that?
smarxistToday at 1:36 PM
people have complex thoughts about shit sometimes, and also grapple with biases hammered into them by society, i don't feel like i've been anything but respectful when trying to talk about a complex issue
CascadeBetaToday at 1:36 PM
Fuck off, you don't get to say well I don't think Pete is a real gay and say some bullshit like that
smarxistToday at 1:36 PM
i feel like you're being pretty shitty right now
i literally have never said that
and I don't even think that
CascadeBetaToday at 1:37 PM
YOU SAID HE STRETCHES THE BOUMDRY OF WHAT SELF IDING ALLOWS
HOW AM I SUPPOSED TO TAKE THAT?
That is some homophobic ass gatekeeping dog
smarxistToday at 1:38 PM
I said there are things Pete has done/said that make it seems like he has self-loathing issues, i did not mean for it to come off like I personally doubt his ID
CascadeBetaToday at 1:38 PM
You literally said that
smarxistToday at 1:38 PM
I'm glad you mentioned "self-loathing" because I had forgotten about it as a concept and i feel like it fits the discussion a lot better
CascadeBetaToday at 1:38 PM
You literally
Literally
C and p
Said that
smarxistToday at 1:39 PM
Yes, to me saying you'd love to take a straight pill to your partner's face is wild as shit
CascadeBetaToday at 1:40 PM
There isn't a context where your response is fucking okay, people in the queer community say that. And some fucking don't. Because it's a fucking struggle and our lives would be a lot fucking easier if we weren't who we are
That doesn't make them Un fucking valid
There isn't a threshold of proof or burden that people can meet where their queer card is fucking revoked
smarxistToday at 1:41 PM
Right, thats why I'm remarking about it as someone who hasn't experienced that struggle
CascadeBetaToday at 1:41 PM
For someone who doesn't feel strongly enough about the queer community to make decisions about it you sure do have a lot of fucking opinions about it
smarxistToday at 1:41 PM
and trying to understand
CascadeBetaToday at 1:41 PM
Then understand and listen when I tell you
You fucked up
Okay?
smarxistToday at 1:42 PM
That's fine, but also don't talk to me like a fucking dog
CascadeBetaToday at 1:42 PM
You get the respect you show us
smarxistToday at 1:43 PM
Boy it seems like you're going to do a great job moderating a place that's trying to foster a lot of different viewpoints and educate/grow people's opinions. If you want to be "it's not my fucking job to educate you", go start a tumblr
SnapplesToday at 1:43 PM
Oh ffs
mp5Today at 1:44 PM
Both of you knock it off.
CascadeBetaToday at 1:44 PM
If you want to be "free speech should be unregulated and unpoliced" go join the sov citizens
Buck WildmanToday at 1:44 PM
there's the line, we're done
CascadeBetaToday at 1:44 PM
All you had to say was I'm sorry I fucked up
smarxistToday at 1:44 PM
That's obviously not my position, and I've taken great care at discussing this issue at every juncture
CascadeBetaToday at 1:44 PM
That was shitty to say
But you didnt
smarxistToday at 1:45 PM
All you had to do was treat me like a fucking human being when approaching me about it
CascadeBetaToday at 1:45 PM
Don't fucking tone police me when you say some fucked up homophobic shit
You don't want to be a part of the queer community? Then stay in your fucking lane.
Listen and comprehend
SnapplesToday at 1:46 PM
Maybe at some point "why is cass so mad about that comment" should have been a thing asked and reflected on internally
CascadeBetaToday at 1:46 PM
Funny how shit like that keeps happenijng
Buck WildmanToday at 1:46 PM
smarxist you lost this, go cool off
smarxistToday at 1:47 PM
Obviously I'm missing something in my understanding of why, but I'm not really given to seeking clarification from someone being an enormous asshole to me
CascadeBetaToday at 1:47 PM
Fuck you.
smarxistToday at 1:47 PM
Fuck YOU
CascadeBetaToday at 1:48 PM
I'm not going to fucking sit you down and baby you about why saying self iding has its limits is fucking one of the worst things I've heard someone say since leaving SA
That's not my fucking job
Grow up
smarxistToday at 1:48 PM
I didn't say it had limits
SnapplesToday at 1:48 PM
Uhhh
smarxistToday at 1:48 PM
You keep giving me the most uncharitable fucking read
Its bullshit
CascadeBetaToday at 1:48 PM
"we're all so used to giving the benefit of the doubt for self-ID that when a case like Pete comes along it strains the boundaries of reason"
Benefit of the doubt for self id but Pete stains the boundaries of reason
Isn't a limit to you?
smarxistToday at 1:49 PM
No
CascadeBetaToday at 1:49 PM
I don't want you on this mod staff
That's the brakes I guess
smarxistToday at 1:49 PM
It's about how his actions, words, remarks seem to undermine his stated goals at every juncture, and THAT is what is a strain on reason
CascadeBetaToday at 1:50 PM
Oh word?
So you are saying that if someone does x or says y they cna have their gay card revoked?
smarxistToday at 1:50 PM
What if someone say "i'm not gay this was all a sham"
SnapplesToday at 1:50 PM
What
CascadeBetaToday at 1:51 PM
Lol
smarxistToday at 1:51 PM
Forget it, I'm never going to get a fair read
Chief Judge JessieWToday at 1:51 PM
Smarxist shut the fuck up
CascadeBetaToday at 1:51 PM
Lol lol lol
Chief Judge JessieWToday at 1:51 PM
Shut up
Buck WildmanToday at 1:51 PM
smarxist you really need to stop
CascadeBetaToday at 1:51 PM
All those fucking fake gays out there
Like
Oh
Hm
Well nevertheless
Chief Judge JessieWToday at 1:52 PM
Just shut the fuck up while I read this back and figure out exactly how bad you put your foot in your mouth
CascadeBetaToday at 1:52 PM
Super bad
Chief Judge JessieWToday at 1:52 PM
How long ago did this start
CascadeBetaToday at 1:52 PM
Like 10am was the first wave then it flares up again later
smarxistToday at 1:52 PM
Oh my
CascadeBetaToday at 1:52 PM
It started completely unrelated
SnapplesToday at 1:53 PM
This specifically was about an hour ago
CascadeBetaToday at 1:53 PM
I gotta take care of some shit so I'll be touch and go, dm/ping me if needed
Buck WildmanToday at 2:02 PM
yikes
I'm not gonna lie this makes me really pensive about a public launch now
Chief Judge JessieWToday at 2:04 PM
We can talk about that later
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