Speedrunning Thread (Take 2) - GOTTA GO FAST

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Super Collie said:
God damn it, came here to post this exact video. :lol:

I've been following Todd Rogers for a while now. People questioning his records date back to the early 00's on the Atari Age forum where I've kicked around for nearly 20 years. (Atari Age is mentioned by name in Apollo's video at the part where he discusses Rogers' alleged Barnstorming record.) It's really unfortunate that he has been allowed to cheat so much, because I can think of more than a couple of situations where people were discouraged from attempting records in various Atari 2600 games specifically because Rogers' "score" was impossibly high. I guess that was his intention all along, though.

Rogers is a piece of shit and I'm grateful that the current generation of speedrunners and people who create tool-assisted runs have been able to irrefutably poke holes in his bogus scores.
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As a person who plays danmaku and score attack games regularly, I totally don't understand this mindset
Any score that was reached by someone, can be reached by someone else. If there is anything score games taught me, is that-as long as you aren't physically disabled-anything is possible with time and practice. If you devote yourself enough, reaching such high score is no longer a matter of "if", but "when".

And another thing that these games taught me is that top couple scores on the leader boards are always held by cheaters.
 
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bit :late:
Wqqqqwrt a good LoZ LTTP speed runner sperging and complaining that GDQ's arent explicitly about trying to get records during the runs and care about watchability rather than having the best/most autistic speedrunners running. He also complaigns about them not having some of the more popular speed games at the marathon which has some merit but at least personally i dont think LTTP is worth watching twice a year.
 
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Yoshi's Island run determined fake because what the runner was doing in the game did not match up to the hand cam. I would call autism on analyzing a hand cam frame by frame, but it's pretty damn autistic of Lee_SDA to have recorded himself fake pressing buttons to put over his prerecorded speedrun.
 
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Xerxes IX said:
Yoshi's Island run determined fake because what the runner was doing in the game did not match up to the hand cam. I would call autism on analyzing a hand cam frame by frame, but it's pretty damn autistic of Lee_SDA to have recorded himself fake pressing buttons to put over his prerecorded speedrun.
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What a shame, Yoshi's Island at AGDQ 2013 was my intro to speedrunning and Lee commented on that. But I gotta admit, this latest hunt for fake records has been pretty interesting. Very impressive autism on both sides.
 
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Well I liked the Tetris block, even if it did have a bunch of trannies in it. But he's right about how they are de-emphasizing the speed running part of the event. In their optimal view it would probably be, as he said, the equivalent of Lets Play commentary over a speed run, which isn't really what speed running is about. We had two people literally cheat (god mode in Skyrim and using a previous save file in BotW) with no negative consequences but if you say the wrong thing bans are issued. And those two runs should be a big deal, BotW is the biggest game of the year and up until the final day, Skyrim had the highest watcher count. Fucking up on them like that looks bad.
 
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Intelligent Calcium said:
What a shame, Yoshi's Island at AGDQ 2013 was my intro to speedrunning and Lee commented on that. But I gotta admit, this latest hunt for fake records has been pretty interesting. Very impressive autism on both sides.
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The most impressive show of autism remain the guy who caught Chibi cheating the jump skip on Paper Mario TTYD the same moment it happened
 
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Lou Wrong said:
Well I liked the Tetris block, even if it did have a bunch of trannies in it. But he's right about how they are de-emphasizing the speed running part of the event. In their optimal view it would probably be, as he said, the equivalent of Lets Play commentary over a speed run, which isn't really what speed running is about. We had two people literally cheat (god mode in Skyrim and using a previous save file in BotW) with no negative consequences but if you say the wrong thing bans are issued. And those two runs should be a big deal, BotW is the biggest game of the year and up until the final day, Skyrim had the highest watcher count. Fucking up on them like that looks bad.
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I think the troon/censorship aspects are worth complaining about, but I disagree with the de-emphasizing part of the speedrun bit. Well, to an extent. Big charity events are really about supporting the cause or whatever, which means they favor the performance over setting records and what not. You shouldn't be watching a marathon if you want to see world record attempts. I think the runners all understand that mindset when they go in and submit their runs, and I know some past runners have said they didn't submit anything because their runs would be super similar to what they did last year, just a little more polished. That's why so many runners go in with the mindset of using marathon strats and safety strats. This extends to other marathons too, not just the done quick lines. Even among smaller community events, the goal is typically "show off cool stuff" as opposed to set world records.
 
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Well that's all well and good, but there still has to be a run under there. As I said above, two people literally gave up and did what could be called a "continued reset" in their runs. I don't know if the Skyrim guy was really fucked or not (wasn't really paying attention and don't know how the game works in regards to glitches) but the Zelda guy chose to use a back up file instead of give up on the flying and spend a minute running somewhere. Unfucking himself would have taken less time than a whole bunch of other people trying to redo glitches.
 
Lou Wrong said:
Well that's all well and good, but there still has to be a run under there. As I said above, two people literally gave up and did what could be called a "continued reset" in their runs. I don't know if the Skyrim guy was really fucked or not (wasn't really paying attention and don't know how the game works in regards to glitches) but the Zelda guy chose to use a back up file instead of give up on the flying and spend a minute running somewhere. Unfucking himself would have taken less time than a whole bunch of other people trying to redo glitches.
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I didn't see either of those runs, but backup saves aren't really uncommon at marathons. There have even been a few instances of bigger runners failing to complete their games. IIRC, keizaron has a history of failing runs, but nobody really cares because a lot of people like him. I figured that's why he was allowed back at all, despite his run last year being problematic for the "assumed gender" joke. The Zelda thing does sound like a weird time to use one, but maybe they just really wanted to show off the glitch? Either way, it doesn't sound like it ruined the run or anything. It's also something that I can't really fault the marathon for. I'm sure they put some pressure on the runners to stay within their estimates, but it looked like all the runners were incredibly generous with their times. I think the decision to use backup saves or resets or what not is entirely on the runner.

If you want to see more "serious" speedruns, you're better off just sticking to watching individual channels. There's just a lot of repetition and resetting in those real runs that isn't entertaining to watch in a marathon style setting, especially when the goal of the event is charity/lining the hosts pockets with money in the name of charity.

*Quick edit* I should also add that there are some runners that no longer go to marathons because they don't like that they're focused on the entertainment aspect or feel they have nothing to add to it, and that's perfectly fine and totally understandable. I'm just trying to say that marathons being gimmicky as opposed to legitimate world records attempt isn't new or something that should be faulted.
 
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Cyber Bowling said:
I didn't see either of those runs, but backup saves aren't really uncommon at marathons. There have even been a few instances of bigger runners failing to complete their games. IIRC, keizaron has a history of failing runs, but nobody really cares because a lot of people like him. I figured that's why he was allowed back at all, despite his run last year being problematic for the "assumed gender" joke. The Zelda thing does sound like a weird time to use one, but maybe they just really wanted to show off the glitch? Either way, it doesn't sound like it ruined the run or anything. It's also something that I can't really fault the marathon for. I'm sure they put some pressure on the runners to stay within their estimates, but it looked like all the runners were incredibly generous with their times. I think the decision to use backup saves or resets or what not is entirely on the runner.

If you want to see more "serious" speedruns, you're better off just sticking to watching individual channels. There's just a lot of repetition and resetting in those real runs that isn't entertaining to watch in a marathon style setting, especially when the goal of the event is charity/lining the hosts pockets with money in the name of charity.

*Quick edit* I should also add that there are some runners that no longer go to marathons because they don't like that they're focused on the entertainment aspect or feel they have nothing to add to it, and that's perfectly fine and totally understandable. I'm just trying to say that marathons being gimmicky as opposed to legitimate world records attempt isn't new or something that should be faulted.
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But there's obviously a pretty big leap between marathons not being focused on legitimate world record attempts and them allowing runners to activate god mode when they feel like it.
 
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Cyber Bowling said:
There have even been a few instances of bigger runners failing to complete their games.
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I want to say it was AGDQ last year where there was an any% run of Zelda : Windwaker where this happened and it was equally hilarious and awful.

For those unfamiliar with WW, fairies function as major health pickups and visibly fly upwards about 200' when they despawn. There's also a trick where you can abuse Link going into a dead state to hover diagonally upwards (zombie hovering) and if you somehow collect health before you touch the ground you won't die - essentially an incredibly limited and difficult superjump. A specific instance of this trick required by the run involves spawning some fairies and then zombie hovering into a location that a fairy might possibly fly through, maybe, during its rocket upwards before it despawns. This trick is literally in the room before the final boss and they got there in something like an hour and a half out of their allocated 3 and then proceeded to spend the entirety of the remaining time unsuccessfully trying to do the trick while getting progressively angrier as attempt after attempt failed.
 
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Pop-Tart said:

Recent NASA podcast. Super comfy, and they comment on several cheating n other scandals within speed running as of late.
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This Krysssstal they start talking about at 1:24:40 sounds like a topic for this thread, does anyone know more about him/her?
 
Malt Liquor said:
The most impressive show of autism remain the guy who caught Chibi cheating the jump skip on Paper Mario TTYD the same moment it happened
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No ordinary act of autism either, he was so autistic that he was able to identify a 1/20th of a second delay on a load screen and catch Mario moving downwards for 1/30th of a second in a failed attempt to do a one frame trick, all in real time as it happened live, in order to catch Chibi cheating.

If there was ever such a thing as super autism, that was it.
 
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PrincessJupiter said:
But there's obviously a pretty big leap between marathons not being focused on legitimate world record attempts and them allowing runners to activate god mode when they feel like it.
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That's fair, but if it was just one run out of however many are done at the marathon, I wouldn't say it's a problem with the marathon. Having to resort to cheats during a marathon is pretty lackluster because there's nothing interesting about using built in cheats. At least with some runs that rely on using glitches to make the character unkillable, you get to see them performing some weird glitch to initiate it as opposed to just typing in console commands.

That's where I think having runners/a couch with good commentary really come into play. You can have a pretty awful run that gets redeemed just by the fact that everyone is having fun. The best example I can think of is Bonesaw's run from a few years ago where the run itself was a mess, but they managed to keep it entertaining and didn't just resort to cheating or something to get around the issues with the run. Of course, that also led to them getting banned after the fact because GDQ staff thought that Air Canada or whatever actually cared about that run, and that's where the marathon being at fault comes back into play. It's also one of the reasons why other smaller marathons are a lot more fun. I think those marathons have the same mindset that it's more about the entertainment factor than the runs, but they're also smart enough to recognize that what people are entertained by is the runners being themselves, so they don't ban people or issue a bunch of rules regarding what they can talk about.
 
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