Sperg about comic books here

  • Want to keep track of this thread?
    Accounts can bookmark posts, watch threads for updates, and jump back to where you stopped reading.
    Create account
Grundlejungle said:
This is dumb. I hate Paul. I hate MJ having powers. And I hate most of all the fact that none of this will actually matter in the long term.
Shit like this is why I stopped buying individual issues years ago.
Click to expand...

The worst thing is that Ned Leeds is rotting in jail and having been brainwashed crazy/evil again by Kingsley/Goblin Queen and Peter doesn't give a flying fuck about it.

I mean, for all of the BS about Peter's sins and fuck-ups that have become a cornerstone of the franchise, Peter's casual disregard for Ned Leeds is the biggest one. And that's not even bringng up that it took YEARS and Peter casually mentioning to MJ for the first time ever several years after the fact, for Peter to question the official narrative of Ned being Hobgoblin as far as MJ immediately calling bullshit on the offiical story the second she's told it for the first time.
 
Oh, and also Peter is currently posted by the sins of Norman Osborn.
 
BetterFuckChuck said:
i liked her having powers as spider-milf but this is gehy
Click to expand...

I'm in the boat where I'd prefer they left her normal and Peter's wife.

Historically, MJ was more of an Archie fantasy girl, so if your, say, a faggy fanboy like Slott you wouldn't understand the massive work that creators in the 80s, 90s, and early 00s put in to making her more than a Betty/Veronica.

SteelPlatedHeart said:
Current Spiderman.
View attachment 5390677View attachment 5390678
Click to expand...

Honestly I looked this up, is that Pat Gleason? Ed Mcguinness, Pat Gleason. Where did these clowns go wrong in their lives to draw this shit?

Jason Aaron is writing Batman, horror/shudder/cringe, and I look at these cunts and I'm like, 'you guys do know you can leave, right?'

When Jim Steranko figured out how bad things were in comics, he didn't stick around to draw Denny O'Neil or Roy Thomas' socially aware bullshit, or worse, have to draw scrubs stories to build credit to do his own work. He left. He went to Hollywood, he published his own stuff. It's time. There is no justification for Ed McGuiness or Gleason to do this shit.
 
Looks like we dodged a bullet. DC rejected the insufferable and talentless Mags Visaggio's pitch to troon out Conner Kent into to a blatant self-insert. Mags claims that it would "sell like fire", but we all know that it would have crashed and burned given that DC cancelled Jon Kent's series and Tim Drake: Robin due to fan backlash and low sales.
 
jspit2.0 said:
When Jim Steranko figured out how bad things were in comics, he didn't stick around to draw Denny O'Neil or Roy Thomas' socially aware bullshit, or worse, have to draw scrubs stories to build credit to do his own work. He left. He went to Hollywood, he published his own stuff. It's time. There is no justification for Ed McGuiness or Gleason to do this shit.
Click to expand...
Unfortunately, outside of the big two, it's slim pickings for an artist these days. They could do a side project but it'd make barely anything. They could go to Hollywood, but then they'd have to compete with Calarts graduates who already know all the right people. They could set up a patreon and do their own thing, but we're in a recession and people who donate already have their preferred creators to support. These guys probably know that better than any of us do and are sticking to the devil they know because at least he's a steady pay check.

Though that's partially because outside of the big two, deadlines are considered more of a suggestion than a hard fact, so fans lose interest because they have to wait two or three months in between issues. So a lot of people don't trust the indies because of the bad track record of other books. Which makes it difficult to move outside of DC and Marvel to do your own thing because you can either draw books you believe in and starve, or draw SJW shit that makes you cringe and make rent.
 
Arthur Morgan said:
Unfortunately, outside of the big two, it's slim pickings for an artist these days. They could do a side project but it'd make barely anything. They could go to Hollywood, but then they'd have to compete with Calarts graduates who already know all the right people. They could set up a patreon and do their own thing, but we're in a recession and people who donate already have their preferred creators to support. These guys probably know that better than any of us do and are sticking to the devil they know because at least he's a steady pay check.

Though that's partially because outside of the big two, deadlines are considered more of a suggestion than a hard fact, so fans lose interest because they have to wait two or three months in between issues. So a lot of people don't trust the indies because of the bad track record of other books. Which makes it difficult to move outside of DC and Marvel to do your own thing because you can either draw books you believe in and starve, or draw SJW shit that makes you cringe and make rent.
Click to expand...

I was thinking more outside of sequential art into advertising or design.
 
Jetpack Himmler said:
Looks like we dodged a bullet. DC rejected the insufferable and talentless Mags Visaggio's pitch to troon out Conner Kent into to a blatant self-insert. Mags claims that it would "sell like fire", but we all know that it would have crashed and burned given that DC cancelled Jon Kent's series and Tim Drake: Robin due to fan backlash and low sales.
Click to expand...

I read some of the pitch, and the whole thing is peak narcissism. Even Major SJW Greg Weisman decided to make him a straight man married with a woman.

What‘s more telling is the delusion that this would sell “like fire“. This is the sort of stunt companies do for shock value. No, this change would only please one person, and that is Megs.

Are these people truly that incapable of relating to anything that isn’t themselves?
 
Last edited:
Jetpack Himmler said:
Lobo and Rocket Raccoon co-creator, Keith Giffen, dead at age 70.

I will remember him best for his work on Legion of Super-Heroes, especially The Great Darkness Saga.
Click to expand...

JLI. Ambush Bug.

Nick Obre said:
Oh god dammit

this one really hurts
Click to expand...

Hopefully DC is classy. Hopefully.

SecretMagicalGirl said:
I read some of the pitch, and the whole think is peak narcissism. Even Major SJW Greg Weisman decided to make him a straight man married with a woman.

What‘s more telling is the delusion that this would sell “like fire“. This is the sort of stunt companies do for shock value. No, this change would only please one person, and that is Megs.

Are these people truly that incapable of relating to anything that isn’t themselves?
Click to expand...

It all goes back to defining victory.

If you sell something for a 150 dollars that costs maybe, what? Do we have anybody here doing print business? An omnibus costs maybe 40 or 50 bucks. So if you assume someone like Gail Simone or Rucka or someone equally untalented has a built in audience of let's be generous and go with a couple of thousand, that's success. It made money at that point. A single comic book going at four dollars a pop? not so much.

It's a very boring story, but in retail, retailers and publishers like things with higher cost/revenue outcomes. That's part of why trades grew in importance.

So now you have the Simone omni shit coming out. It's 'profitable' and a way of those creatives getting paid to do literally nothing that is also a successful publishing line. Because the dollar point goes up so each sale has greater impact.

Brian/Mags problem is he skipped the line, didn't build a weird reddit fanbase of a couple of thousand, and then degenerate like Simone and Rucka have. He came in mask fully off and lazy and it means that the people who would otherwise give him work can't justify it.
 
Jetpack Himmler said:
Lobo and Rocket Raccoon co-creator, Keith Giffen, dead at age 70.

I will remember him best for his work on Legion of Super-Heroes, especially The Great Darkness Saga.
Click to expand...
JLI will always be kino. JLE and his bit on Justice League America are also damned good.
He'll be missed. The team from JLI was always fun.
It all goes back to defining victory.

If you sell something for a 150 dollars that costs maybe, what? Do we have anybody here doing print business? An omnibus costs maybe 40 or 50 bucks. So if you assume someone like Gail Simone or Rucka or someone equally untalented has a built in audience of let's be generous and go with a couple of thousand, that's success. It made money at that point. A single comic book going at four dollars a pop? not so much.

It's a very boring story, but in retail, retailers and publishers like things with higher cost/revenue outcomes. That's part of why trades grew in importance.

So now you have the Simone omni shit coming out. It's 'profitable' and a way of those creatives getting paid to do literally nothing that is also a successful publishing line. Because the dollar point goes up so each sale has greater impact.

Brian/Mags problem is he skipped the line, didn't build a weird reddit fanbase of a couple of thousand, and then degenerate like Simone and Rucka have. He came in mask fully off and lazy and it means that the people who would otherwise give him work can't justify it.
Click to expand...
Mags is a fucking retard who doesn't know how to network or appeal to people. It's almost like troons just want to be worshipped for everything without reason.
 
Alexander Thaut said:
JLI will always be kino. JLE and his bit on Justice League America are also damned good.
He'll be missed. The team from JLI was always fun.
Click to expand...
I admit that I am more classic League than JLI, but I always respected the latter for what it did with what it had. My understanding was that editor Andy Hefler wanted to bring back the classic lineup, but most of them were tied up in their own reboots at the time and thus unavailable. Denny O'Neill allowed Batman on the team as a solid. For what JLI lacked in power and grandeur, it made up with character and humor. I doubt Ted Kord/Blue Beetle and Booster Gold would've had as much a following without JLI or the Martian Manhunter becoming so integral to the League. One has to remember that he was absent from the team for the entire Bronze Age.

JLI only faltered after Giffen, DeMatteis, and Maguire left the series. Then again, it had been a over decade since Gerry Conway booted the A-listers to make way for Justice League Detroit so I think fans were ready for a return to the (mostly) classic lineup when Morrison took over the franchise in 1996.

jspit2.0 said:
Brian/Mags problem is he skipped the line, didn't build a weird reddit fanbase of a couple of thousand, and then degenerate like Simone and Rucka have. He came in mask fully off and lazy and it means that the people who would otherwise give him work can't justify it.
Click to expand...
Alexander Thaut said:
Mags is a fucking retard who doesn't know how to network or appeal to people. It's almost like troons just want to be worshipped for everything without reason.
Click to expand...
Mags knows how to network insofar using Twitter and DEI initiatives to cut the line and deluded himself into believing that it was because of his talent. When you look at his mainstream work, it is essentially just scraps that Marvel, DC, and IDW tossed at him and he has NO career-defining run on any title. Mark Waid may be a blubbering man-child, but his 90s run on Flash made Wally West the definitive Flash for a generation and he can still turn in decent work whenever he gets over himself.

My running theory was that DC looked at what Megan FitzMartin (another nobody writer) did to Tim Drake, who already altered an established and well-regarded character to suit her ego, and BTFOed Mags. What I see it as indicative of is that DC created a glut of legacy characters and it was the Young Justice cohort (Tim, Conner, Bart, and Cassie) who got pushed to the wayside in favor of "newer models" like Damian Wayne, Wallace West, and later Jon Kent and Yara Flor. Altering Tim drove the old fans away, didn't bring in the mythical "modern audiences", and basically now regulated him to the background and the odd guest spot. Trooning out Conner would have cranked that up to eleven and rendered the character unusable.
 
The Simone Batgirl run is being put out in Omnibus format because the trades sold well even with all of the controversy relating to her run (some of which wasn't Gail's fault but editorial) and the fact that those trades are now OOP and putting everything out as an omnibus lets them make a quick buck and see if there is a market to do a regular trade re-issue of the run down the line. Which is standard policy these days in that a series will get an omnibus run first and if it doesn't sell, then you don't get a proper affordable trade of it.
 
I admit that I am more classic League than JLI, but I always respected the latter for what it did with what it had. My understanding was that editor Andy Hefler wanted to bring back the classic lineup, but most of them were tied up in their own reboots at the time and thus unavailable. Denny O'Neill allowed Batman on the team as a solid. For what JLI lacked in power and grandeur, it made up with character and humor. I doubt Ted Kord/Blue Beetle and Booster Gold would've had as much a following without JLI or the Martian Manhunter becoming so integral to the League. One has to remember that he was absent from the team for the entire Bronze Age.

JLI only faltered after Giffen, DeMatteis, and Maguire left the series. Then again, it had been a over decade since Gerry Conway booted the A-listers to make way for Justice League Detroit so I think fans were ready for a return to the (mostly) classic lineup when Morrison took over the franchise in 1996.
Click to expand...
Justice League Detroit could have worked if they'd gotten better writing imo. It feels like it could have been a pseudo-Teen Titans type of scenario where the young heroes get mentored and etc. Shame that the detroit era is just a bad meme, but at least Vixen's still sorta remembered due to her DCAU appearance in the JLU show. Gypsy's kinda never been seen much.

Also, like, the whole 90s Justice League stuff before Morrison took over was kinda iffy at best. You had Gerard Jones trying to use Superman/Wonder Woman as big names but that never felt too good. Extreme Justice also existed. . . I think I only read that for Beetle/Booster and that wasn't worth it.


Mags knows how to network insofar using Twitter and DEI initiatives to cut the line and deluded himself into believing that it was because of his talent. When you look at his mainstream work, it is essentially just scraps that Marvel, DC, and IDW tossed at him and he has NO career-defining run on any title. Mark Waid may be a blubbering man-child, but his 90s run on Flash made Wally West the definitive Flash for a generation and he can still turn in decent work whenever he gets over himself.

My running theory was that DC looked at what Megan FitzMartin (another nobody writer) did to Tim Drake, who already altered an established and well-regarded character to suit her ego, and BTFOed Mags. What I see it as indicative of is that DC created a glut of legacy characters and it was the Young Justice cohort (Tim, Conner, Bart, and Cassie) who got pushed to the wayside in favor of "newer models" like Damian Wayne, Wallace West, and later Jon Kent and Yara Flor. Altering Tim drove the old fans away, didn't bring in the mythical "modern audiences", and basically now regulated him to the background and the odd guest spot. Trooning out Conner would have cranked that up to eleven and rendered the character unusable.
Click to expand...

Tim Drake's alteration seems to be their equivalent of "playing it safe" because they're just saying he's bisexual. This can be dragged back any time.
DC's legacy characters need to be seperated at this point. It was barely manageable before Flashpoint, because you'd at least see them spread out and there were mostly enough team books for dudes like Jay Garrick, Alan Scott, Kid Flash, etc. Flash/GL are the obvious ones, but even the Bat-Family at least got spread across multiple books and even then. . . it was barely something I was able to keep up with. Nowadays, we have all this shit with a half-dozen new legacy characters tossed together over the 2010s in both companies that they've tried to push. (I'm not counting shit like the Batman Inc. dudes like Gaucho or Teen Titans like Flamebird. They're just existing characters from forever ago that've been revamped and given a space.)

Like, don't get me wrong, but the whole Jon Kent changes ruined both him and Conner. Adding more Superman family people after the Warworld thing (the twins) also fucks up stuff because it feels like a halfassed attempt at getting "young kryptonians" or whatever, but then we somehow get young jon kent stories still being published? Can't we just de-age Jon and forget about this bullshit.

The Bat-Family is also kinda way too bloated at this point too. Before Flashpoint, it was manageable. Babs was in Birds of Prey, Nightwing had his thing, Tim was Robin/Red Robin in his book, Detective Comics/Batman ran the usual main stories. Damien had his Batman and Robin book and other tales. Jason eventually got to get his own book. We also had Batwoman pop up, dunno if she was any good. Cassandra Cain popped up here and there as the modern Batgirl. . . until the N52 forgot her?
And then they fucked up by adding like a fuckton of new Gotham capes. Bluebird? Duke Thomas? What? Then we just keep escalating the number of these new characters, but then they feel the need to alter existing ones like Tim to push an agenda? Then we make Barbara Gordon able to walk again? Then the original Batwoman comes back alive. . . but we don't see the original Batgirl (Flamebird) pop up? I know Batman is DC's biggest IP, but can we just focus on the good stuff again?

Don't care about Wonder Woman's legacy characters as much because she only gets like one new addition per decade or so. Yera Flor needs some screentime in the right way, but I doubt we'll ever get that.
As for other bloated legacy characters in DC, I'm just more pissed at the whole Flash Family and the need for DC to keep introducing human GLs. There's a fucking prosthetic using genderqueer aborigine woman that's a speedster and they tried to attempt to shill her. The whole Justice League of China and all these Chinese superheroes got introduced in the 2010s. I get it, new heroes are fun to introduce and attract an audience. The problem is that the last 20 years of DC comics have slipped quality so far that I'd say the majority of these introduced legacy heroes just aren't standing the test of time. Fucking Flash comics have been kinda shit because they decided to throw Wally onto a bus with his kids (and Bart too) while introducing a fucking black teen wally west.

I can count, on one hand, the number of legacy heroes from DC that aren't complete dogshit (and have been pushed in other media). Damien Wayne, Young Jon Kent (before the . . . age up thing happened. . .), Miss Martian, Jaime Reyes, and maybe the Jessica Cruz GL? I'd throw in the Ryan Choi Atom and Jason Rusch Firestorm as things I'm kinda just neutral towards?

Honestly, just give the fucking rainbow mafia their own Universe to write in for the big two. Call it the YAverse and let these wannabe YA authors write soaps. Fucking retcon Spidey to pre-One More Day. Make Jon Kent a kid again. Bring back the proper JSA and Justice League.

Fucking Fall of X seems to be on track to. . . something. I hope Orchis isn't just shafted after this. Please don't fucking character assassinate all the classic X-Men. . .

The Simone Batgirl run is being put out in Omnibus format because the trades sold well even with all of the controversy relating to her run (some of which wasn't Gail's fault but editorial) and the fact that those trades are now OOP and putting everything out as an omnibus lets them make a quick buck and see if there is a market to do a regular trade re-issue of the run down the line. Which is standard policy these days in that a series will get an omnibus run first and if it doesn't sell, then you don't get a proper affordable trade of it.
Click to expand...
Simone is kinda a hack writer, but she's at least readable. I can't stomach a lot of the current-era's young SJW writers. Fucking hell.
 
Alexander Thaut said:
It feels like it could have been a pseudo-Teen Titans type of scenario where the young heroes get mentored and etc.
Click to expand...
Conway sort-of did that with Firestorm by having him join the Satellite League. Justice League Detroit came into being because of plot contrivance over Aquaman being pissy that the other Leaguers couldn't make a "full time commitment" to the League after an attempted Martian invasion of Earth. (The Martian race was still extant Pre-Crisis, but a disaster rendered Mars uninhabitable for Martians so J'onn led the survivors to a new home.) He invoked an obscure clause in the League charter that allowed any founding member to unilaterally dissolve the League. Of the then-current lineup, only Elongated Man, Zatanna, and the recently-returned Martian Manhunter remained. This move ultimately proved hypocritical as Arthur bailed on JLD due to his marital problems.

Hindsight being 20/20, I thought it was the epitome of stupidity for Aquaman to fire the League and replace them with novices after such an event. Had I time machine, I probably would've had Aquaman and the other founders (sans Batman, who quit to found the Outsiders) reform the League into something like Justice League Task Force or Unlimited and build up a reserve roster where members could be pulled for a particular mission. I mean, Superman was a member of the Legion of Super-Heroes, which had the Substitutes, Heroes of Lallor, the Wanderers, and other reservists on call. He could make the argument to expand the League in the wake of an invasion.

However, I'm not sure if this would have worked. DC had Crisis on Infinite Earths in the pipeline at the time and I imagine that their reboots were in at least the planning stages so I don't know if editorial would've been receptive to the idea.

Alexander Thaut said:
Can't we just de-age Jon and forget about this bullshit.
Click to expand...
I imagine DC editorial would be skittish at the idea because they still fear the ProgTards who would accuse them of "erasing" an LGBTQ+=-~% hero.

Alexander Thaut said:
As for other bloated legacy characters in DC, I'm just more pissed at the whole Flash Family and the need for DC to keep introducing human GLs. There's a fucking prosthetic using genderqueer aborigine woman that's a speedster and they tried to attempt to shill her.
Click to expand...
That would be Bolt, who I believe was in the post-Death Metal Suicide Squad. Rebirth induced Wallace West as the new Kid Flash, Avery Ho as The-Flash of China, and Jess Chambers of Earth-11 as the non-binary Future State Flash.

Geoff Thorne's run on Green Lantern was a clusterfuck because DC editorial mandated that he used Jo Mullein and Teen Lantern. It didn't help that he also killed several well-known GLs like Arisia and Isamot Kol for no other reason than shock value. He later "depowered" Simon Baz and another writer made Jessica Cruz a Yellow Lantern, yet both reappeared as GLs in Dark Crisis. Thankfully, Jeremy Adams is the current writer on the main GL title starring Hal Jordan and I thought his run on Flash was fantastic.
 
MirrorNoir said:
The Simone Batgirl run is being put out in Omnibus format because the trades sold well
Click to expand...

Hard to find a break. Yeah, regardless of whether I hate it, Snyder's Batman was selling well and Simone had some cross overs (Court of owls; DOTF) that combined with that small fanatical army of redditfags boosted her TPB numbers, at the time.

MirrorNoir said:
even with all of the controversy relating to her run (some of which wasn't Gail's fault but editorial) and the fact that those trades are now OOP and putting everything out as an omnibus lets them make a quick buck and see if there is a market to do a regular trade re-issue of the run down the line.
Click to expand...

Batgirl was in 2021.

They are, in order, rereleasing Wonder Woman, doing a Secret Six omni.....the list goes on. So it's not just Batgirl. They are, in a three year period , deluging the market with Gail omnis when other series have been OOP longer.

They are doing that BECAUSE, as I said, the bar for success is lower.

MirrorNoir said:
Which is standard policy these days in that a series will get an omnibus run first and if it doesn't sell, then you don't get a proper affordable trade of it.
Click to expand...

These aren't modern series. Batgirl was 2011, and everything else is older still.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom