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Humble Architect said:
Well the world shills Amadeus as a “genius” which is meaningless when humans like Charles Xavier, Tony Stark, Reed Richards, Bruce Banner and Victor Von Doom exist.

But then the “genius” walks right up to the Green Scar and trys to say “We’re on your side” and is shocked when he sees the slave pits. This is also where the “Hulk has never killed anyone” BS came from.

Hulk shouldn’t have come straight back to Earth, he should’ve become a galactic conqueror, building an army to bring to Earth. Let him go full villian. Planet Hulk really was Greg getting lucky, the art of WWH was awful too, Romita jr sucks.
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it's racist anyways just because he's asian he has to be smart? good at math perhaps? fuck you greg, you gook bastard.

i remember the preview issue coming out for WWH and getting it at my grocery store and being so excited. it was like a marvel spotlight or handbook or something. and I for whatever reason was under the impression he was doing just that amassing armies and then when it came out, it was just bullshit.

I will disagree on JRJR, he's one of my all time favorite comic artists but I will say I think he is almost NEVER put on projects that work for his style and it always irritates me because I get excited for it whenever he gets a big gig and then the book comes out and it's never something that seemed written for him.
 
Hembruh said:
it's racist anyways just because he's asian he has to be smart? good at math perhaps? fuck you greg, you gook bastard.

i remember the preview issue coming out for WWH and getting it at my grocery store and being so excited. it was like a marvel spotlight or handbook or something. and I for whatever reason was under the impression he was doing just that amassing armies and then when it came out, it was just bullshit.

I will disagree on JRJR, he's one of my all time favorite comic artists but I will say I think he is almost NEVER put on projects that work for his style and it always irritates me because I get excited for it whenever he gets a big gig and then the book comes out and it's never something that seemed written for him.
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The only time I liked Amadeus was in Incredible Hulks where (paraphrasing)

“Who’s that?”

“One of my exes”

“You know for a skinny white dude with anger issues you sure do get around a lot.”

One of the only good Amadeus moments.

Hulk should’ve become something like Mongul, a bit more “noble” perhaps but Hulk’s horde should’ve been conquering everying in their way.

I could see Nova swinging by and casually saying to Tony.

“I don’t know why the Hulk isn’t on Earth anymore, but you should know that last I check it was fifty worlds that call him king. Apparently he’s only killing tyrants and breaking chains, which makes me wonder why he’s making his way here.”
 
Humble Architect said:
The only time I liked Amadeus was in Incredible Hulks where (paraphrasing)

“Who’s that?”

“One of my exes”

“You know for a skinny white dude with anger issues you sure do get around a lot.”

One of the only good Amadeus moments.

Hulk should’ve become something like Mongul, a bit more “noble” perhaps but Hulk’s horde should’ve been conquering everying in their way.

I could see Nova swinging by and casually saying to Tony.

“I don’t know why the Hulk isn’t on Earth anymore, but you should know that last I check it was fifty worlds that call him king. Apparently he’s only killing tyrants and breaking chains, which makes me wonder why he’s making his way here.”
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I found where I talked about this last

Hembruh said:
I fucking hate WWH. My problem with that whole Pak era is it's fucking cool set up that goes nowhere and I'm not sure if that was him or editorial. Planet Hulk, hulk becomes king of a planet cool new status quo, it blows up. WWH, hulk takes on the world, fucking sentry is the final battle, Later on we eventually get a hulk family, immediately dismantled. Hulk goes entirely world breaker supernova in the dark dimension, gets brought back to punch fing fang foom and fucks off to start Jason Aaron's mediocre run after.
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While it had happened before, and Millar was perhaps the most "high profile" guy doing it, during the Aughts the number of comics being published that were obvious failed, unwanted "high concept" movie/tv pitches hastily rewritten as comics seemed to surge. Lots of High Concept creators who were coming up with 4 to 6 issue mini-series read by almost no-one that were usually based around plot construction methods learned from Lego, i.e. taking knock-offs of characters and situations from whatever TV shows were popular at the time and shuffling them together with bang up ideas like "zombies with feelings" or "vampires who are businessmen", plus a heaping dash of classy BBC references or whatever.
 
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Hembruh said:
I found where I talked about this last
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Yeah that sums up the character (and the problem with western comics in general)

Hulk should’ve been in space for years running around with the cosmic cast, Caiera should’ve been around for longer than the fifteen issues of Planet Hulk? They built a whole new setting with Sakkar and did nothing after the stunt was over.

Imagine Banner and Hulk having to go through the conversation of “We’re gonna be a dad, we cannot be fighting each other” or Hulk becoming a major cosmic power-player, shaking up the Shiar/Kree/Skrull usual melodrama. Suddenly a green warlord from a desolate backwater is conquering worlds and has an army of monsters, gladiators, soldiers, cyborgs and mercenaries all under one banner and heading for Earth, world by world.

Wasted potential
Clyde Cash's Left Teste said:
I think Greg was given that idea by editoral to begin with
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It shows, his other Hulk stuff is nowhere the greatness of Planet Hulk.
 
Clyde Cash's Left Teste said:
I think Greg was given that idea by editoral to begin with
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If he wasn't, he just read superman:exile in the late 80s and took notes and added a love interest.

Greg Pak actually did have a pretty good run on Action Comics in New52 for a little while that did some cool shit with Lana Lang but I haven't looked at it in a decade it might actually suck. WWH got fucked by being an event book with no time to breathe even with tie ins. his following stuff like fall of hulks or whatever suffers from being in and out of so many books it's impossible to follow properly.

His magneto holocaust book I like, but his star wars vader comic is fucking horrible, but it screams editorial. Pak is a writer I think is totally serviceable, he's fine but he can't be left totally alone or you'll get Amadeus Cho, but if you hold him too tight you get Darth Vader or WWH. the guy needs someone who sort of lets him do his own thing but vetos the crap.

compared to a lot of the fucking idiots writing for the big two he's one of the better ones of the last 15 years, and that's with 1 good arc (planet hulk) a couple of okay ones (incredible hulks & action comics) and a lot of crap (everything else). Ill take him over a Dan Slott or Tom King any day though.
 
jspit2.0 said:
They held it for him later, unfortunately. But no, they did a smattering of multiverse stuff over the period between the multiverses restoration in (2006) to (2014). Like allot of things, Dan fucked it up, bad

The TIMELINE

2008 was the big year. After the overrated 52, a series of titles played in the multiverse

Geoff Johns Justice Society Annual 1 set on Earth 2 (JSA). Great issue, art Jerry ordway and then they completely dropped the ball going forward. Also features Earth 22 (kingdom Come)

At the same time Tangent Superman Reign miniseries in 2008 is set on Earth 9,

Countdown runs all over any attempt to set up the multiverse, crossing worlds. There's the ray palmer search, with Earths 3 (Crime Syndicate), 8 (marvel havoc), 11 (gender reversed), 19 (steampunk). 29 (Red Son), 43 (Red Rain),

2009

Then the multiverse gets fucked in Final Crises. Morrison kills Ubergirl because of course a supergirl has to die because Crises. Then there are Five superman in Superman Beyond. Three Legions from unspecified earths in the spin off Legion series.

2011 forward is where the full on rape of multiverse DC begins.

The horrible Earth 2 by James Robinson and TOm Taylor, completely missing the appeal of the concept.

Geoff Johns promptly recreated and then killed the Crime Syndicate of Earth 3.

Morrison ultimately got to define the Multiverse. And overall it's not glowing. But so much wasted potential.
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I legitimately don't know what DC was smoking when they did Countdown the way it went.

Humble Architect said:
Read all of World War Hulk and it’s tie-ins.

Holy fuck the main Hulk book during that time with Amadeus is awful (he’s wasn’t a hulk yet) genuine fanfiction OC-tier, fuck Greg Pak. There’s a weird commie part where Cho steals money from Angel and when called out he says “you’re a trustie, you didn’t earn it”

“I’m Hulk’s friend, he’s not so bad.”
-Greg Pak’s self insert
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I think Amadeus was supposed to be a snotty little shit with trauma issues, but they never quite went all in on that. I remember the Incredible Herc series being fun though.
Humble Architect said:
Well the world shills Amadeus as a “genius” which is meaningless when humans like Charles Xavier, Tony Stark, Reed Richards, Bruce Banner and Victor Von Doom exist.

But then the “genius” walks right up to the Green Scar and trys to say “We’re on your side” and is shocked when he sees the slave pits. This is also where the “Hulk has never killed anyone” BS came from.

Hulk shouldn’t have come straight back to Earth, he should’ve become a galactic conqueror, building an army to bring to Earth. Let him go full villian. Planet Hulk really was Greg getting lucky, the art of WWH was awful too, Romita jr sucks.
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Honestly, I highkey do wonder what would have happened if we got an entire bit of the Marvel cosmic books of the time with their Annihilation and etc. stories on top of Planet Hulk.

Hembruh said:
If he wasn't, he just read superman:exile in the late 80s and took notes and added a love interest.

Greg Pak actually did have a pretty good run on Action Comics in New52 for a little while that did some cool shit with Lana Lang but I haven't looked at it in a decade it might actually suck. WWH got fucked by being an event book with no time to breathe even with tie ins. his following stuff like fall of hulks or whatever suffers from being in and out of so many books it's impossible to follow properly.

His magneto holocaust book I like, but his star wars vader comic is fucking horrible, but it screams editorial. Pak is a writer I think is totally serviceable, he's fine but he can't be left totally alone or you'll get Amadeus Cho, but if you hold him too tight you get Darth Vader or WWH. the guy needs someone who sort of lets him do his own thing but vetos the crap.

compared to a lot of the fucking idiots writing for the big two he's one of the better ones of the last 15 years, and that's with 1 good arc (planet hulk) a couple of okay ones (incredible hulks & action comics) and a lot of crap (everything else). Ill take him over a Dan Slott or Tom King any day though.
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Pak is alright, he does need the right amount of wrangling.

WWH had so many things tossed into it that didn't get breathing room. The fucking bit about some kid in the Initative stealing one of Tony Stark's super-power shutoff nanite doses was something that should have had more importance.


Hell, we should have gotten more issues of the Hulk whaling on all the different Avengers teams. Bring up the history. Etc.
 
Hulk should’ve killed during WWH, they seemed scared to let him truly become an event villian.

It’s been said before but imagine if during that broadcast he had Black Bolt’s head on a spear. None of this “Hulk isn’t hurting anybody” BS. No, the Worldbreaker is here to kill you all, as far as he’s concerned, the nerd table killed his woman, his child, his people and his world.
 
Humble Architect said:
Hulk should’ve killed during WWH, they seemed scared to let him truly become an event villian.

It’s been said before but imagine if during that broadcast he had Black Bolt’s head on a spear. None of this “Hulk isn’t hurting anybody” BS. No, the Worldbreaker is here to kill you all, as far as he’s concerned, the nerd table killed his woman, his child, his people and his world.
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Well, him killing Black Bolt on the broadcast and revealing that he was a Skrull would have been so much fun.

The Skrull Empire? They shit themselves. The Inhumans? They shit themselves. Everyone's suddenly aware that something horribly wrong, but can't do anything about it due to the Hulk at their doorstep.

I think the Hulk should have killed an Avenger and an X-Man at the very least. Perhaps even a few villains. Dude went and thrashed Dracula during this time too didn't he?
 
Humble Architect said:
Hulk should’ve killed during WWH, they seemed scared to let him truly become an event villian.
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I would say Hulk managing to establish a gathering of humans who were against the Illuminati to have a say on all of the horrible stuff they did, one I recall being Goliath’s death with the creation of the robot Thor.

It creates this extra salt on the wound, cause I believe Hulk going in there and smashing the whole squad isn’t gonna work long term, he’s got to break them spiritually to hit the nail on the head cause let’s be honest, the Illuminati deserved a lot especially with Civil War.

Finally, a funny thing I noticed, the only one that ended up with the better end of the straw was Namor, cause he was the one out of the group to vote against sending Hulk into space.
 
Alexander Thaut said:
Well, him killing Black Bolt on the broadcast and revealing that he was a Skrull would have been so much fun.

The Skrull Empire? They shit themselves. The Inhumans? They shit themselves. Everyone's suddenly aware that something horribly wrong, but can't do anything about it due to the Hulk at their doorstep.

I think the Hulk should have killed an Avenger and an X-Man at the very least. Perhaps even a few villains. Dude went and thrashed Dracula during this time too didn't he?
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See that would’ve been great, the ultimate wild card goes apeshit and everyone’s plans go out the window.

Hulk should’ve killed Sentry (setting himself as the top of the food chain and cause Sentry sucks), Skrull Black Bolt and then during his rampage against the X-Men he should’ve killed one of students, just to hammer home how fallen Bruce is.

Bruce’s greatest weakness is his fear of becoming like his father, standing over a pulped d-list mutie would’ve been a better cause for his and Hulk’s symbiosis to come undone.

Then the broadcast catches the Green Scar reverting to Banner and Savage, the Warbound see their god revert to his true form and out of disgust they abandon him. A proper downfall for a more villainous Green Scar.

Which is another thing, Hulk should’ve introduced the Warbound to his other side, it would’ve sold the “replacement” friends angle.
 
Humble Architect said:
See that would’ve been great, the ultimate wild card goes apeshit and everyone’s plans go out the window.

Hulk should’ve killed Sentry (setting himself as the top of the food chain and cause Sentry sucks), Skrull Black Bolt and then during his rampage against the X-Men he should’ve killed one of students, just to hammer home how fallen Bruce is.

Bruce’s greatest weakness is his fear of becoming like his father, standing over a pulped d-list mutie would’ve been a better cause for his and Hulk’s symbiosis to come undone.

Then the broadcast catches the Green Scar reverting to Banner and Savage, the Warbound see their god revert to his true form and out of disgust they abandon him. A proper downfall for a more villainous Green Scar.

Which is another thing, Hulk should’ve introduced the Warbound to his other side, it would’ve sold the “replacement” friends angle.
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honestly, Hulk killing one of the then-relevant student X-Men like Pixie or Armor while all the X-Teams are battered and down. Kill one of the kids right in front of the little cemetery made for all the Xavier students, X-Men, and etc. Give The Green Scar a line to Xavier as he says something like "I've just given you a little more to your own personal hell."

Honestly, killing Armor or X-23 would have really set Wolverine off and raise the stakes in the Hulk- Wolverine dynamic. There are so many choices here.


Anyways, Hulk should have beaten Reed into a coma right in front of everyone else. Sure, he'd be fixed eventually, but it'd have fit with the then-current themes of Reed during the Civil War-Initiative-Dark Reign era. For all his intelligence, he's a dumbass. all too often.


Hulk should have also tried to desecrate Steve Roger's memorial as an addition to show how far his mind's gone.
 
Hembruh said:
If he wasn't, he just read superman:exile in the late 80s and took notes and added a love interest.

Greg Pak actually did have a pretty good run on Action Comics in New52 for a little while that did some cool shit with Lana Lang but I haven't looked at it in a decade it might actually suck. WWH got fucked by being an event book with no time to breathe even with tie ins. his following stuff like fall of hulks or whatever suffers from being in and out of so many books it's impossible to follow properly.

His magneto holocaust book I like, but his star wars vader comic is fucking horrible, but it screams editorial. Pak is a writer I think is totally serviceable, he's fine but he can't be left totally alone or you'll get Amadeus Cho, but if you hold him too tight you get Darth Vader or WWH. the guy needs someone who sort of lets him do his own thing but vetos the crap.

compared to a lot of the fucking idiots writing for the big two he's one of the better ones of the last 15 years, and that's with 1 good arc (planet hulk) a couple of okay ones (incredible hulks & action comics) and a lot of crap (everything else). Ill take him over a Dan Slott or Tom King any day though.
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Greg Pak's Superman run will Always have my unmitigated hatred.

OG Superman, reaches out a hand to major disaster, a man who killed thousands

Pak NuSuperman laughs while a skin head? flesh and blood man is crying on the ground.

That's that run. Blacked Lana, blue jeans instead of tights, and a bunch of shitty takes from someone who makes all the bad Superman takes.

Humble Architect said:
Hulk should’ve killed during WWH, they seemed scared to let him truly become an event villian.

It’s been said before but imagine if during that broadcast he had Black Bolt’s head on a spear. None of this “Hulk isn’t hurting anybody” BS. No, the Worldbreaker is here to kill you all, as far as he’s concerned, the nerd table killed his woman, his child, his people and his world.
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The problem is how they don't stay true to the canon. You can't kill the hulk, why they shot him into space. Banner hates the hulk because he's a bad creature that destroys lives. When writer's get bored with Hulk is when it starts to get really weird and messed up.

@Alexander Thaut

I legitimately don't know what DC was smoking when they did Countdown the way it went.
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They wanted to cash in on 52 (sales success, terrible series) and the upcoming Morrison Final Crises (the worst crises of the lot). At the same time, no one wanted to do the intense work a 52 weekly takes, so you go from Geoff Johns and Morrison to Adam Beechan and Justin Grey.
Hembruh said:
If he wasn't, he just read superman:exile in the late 80s and took notes and added a love interest.
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Exile was a great conceit where Superman left earth because he felt unworthy after killing three people. It's sorely missed, the level of thought people used to put into planning
Pak is alright, he does need the right amount of wrangling.
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He's a modern Ron Marz. He can only fuck up if you let him. tighten his reigns and he'll give you average trash.
 
Alexander Thaut said:
honestly, Hulk killing one of the then-relevant student X-Men like Pixie or Armor while all the X-Teams are battered and down. Kill one of the kids right in front of the little cemetery made for all the Xavier students, X-Men, and etc. Give The Green Scar a line to Xavier as he says something like "I've just given you a little more to your own personal hell."

Honestly, killing Armor or X-23 would have really set Wolverine off and raise the stakes in the Hulk- Wolverine dynamic. There are so many choices here.


Anyways, Hulk should have beaten Reed into a coma right in front of everyone else. Sure, he'd be fixed eventually, but it'd have fit with the then-current themes of Reed during the Civil War-Initiative-Dark Reign era. For all his intelligence, he's a dumbass. all too often.


Hulk should have also tried to desecrate Steve Roger's memorial as an addition to show how far his mind's gone.
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See you get it, I love nothing more than a good fall, Anakin, Horus Hal, you name it I’m there for it.

Wolverine should’ve been the last one fighting Green Scar, Death of Superman style and Hulk having killed X-23 would’ve been the greatest motivator him or She-Hulk finally getting a serious moment and facing down her deranged cousin. That would’ve stung, the one person who has always had his back since childhood. They blew their wad and had him fight her too early. Shulkie should’ve played the role of Power Girl in Infinite Crisis, onboard until it goes too far and Hulk starts killing people who had nothing to do with the exile and bomb.

Hulk should’ve beaten the F4 then beat Reed to a pulp in front of them, have the kids see it too. Return Hulk to his villian roots and make it so that jolly green isn’t welcome with his old friends after all the damage his tantrum does. Take Bruce back to his “most wanted man” status.

“Your father killed my family, be grateful I don’t return the favor.”
 
World War Hulk was great. Amedeus Cho was also a great character and him clowning on Stark and Richards after the bullshit they did in Civil War was a breathe of fresh air...
 
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