Sperg about comic books here

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I just saw the Wonder Woman movie. It had a bit of a slow start, but once it got going... I was pleasantly surprised.
Or just torrent it, but you know what I mean.
And if anyone knows of any superior comic torrenting sites, hmu.
 
Do you guys think the change with Iceman is permanent? It shouldn't be that big of a deal but it fucks with his dynamics with other characters and he overpowers everything with how cartoonishly gay he's written (He even had a boyfriend named Romeo). I'll accept if retconning it means doing a campy "bi-erasure" story as the story it came out of had very questionable views on sexuality in the first place. No character deserves to be eternally damned by a bad Bendis story.

Yes, this still is a problem 3 years later and they haven't improved this at all. Giving him a solo series where the main focus is on how gay he is has only made it worse.
 
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Wait they're actually moving forward with Adult Iceman being gay too? I thought they had established that the young classic team might not be from the 616 universe's past, which would have been the smart thing to do since that way you can have the original Iceman not have entire history retconned and you can keep the young Iceman gay. It's not like any of the other members of that time haven't been drastically changed from how they're traditionally portrayed. Hell, young Beast is currently studying magic of all things, which adult Beast has never been a fan of.

On a related note, X-Men Blue is actually pretty good proving once again that the best way to improve a team book is remove Bendis from the equation.
 
Wait they're actually moving forward with Adult Iceman being gay too? I thought they had established that the young classic team might not be from the 616 universe's past, which would have been the smart thing to do since that way you can have the original Iceman not have entire history retconned and you can keep the young Iceman gay. It's not like any of the other members of that time haven't been drastically changed from how they're traditionally portrayed. Hell, young Beast is currently studying magic of all things, which adult Beast has never been a fan of.

On a related note, X-Men Blue is actually pretty good proving once again that the best way to improve a team book is remove Bendis from the equation.
Yes, Iceman #1 came out and the plot is about him not being sure what to put as his description on a gay dating site. Adult Iceman was revealed to be gay shortly after the younger one after people kept pointing out one of them wasn't gay. Ironically, it was later revealed (around this year I think) that the past X-Men actually were from another universe like fans guessed so trying to match them up was pretty pointless.
 
Do you guys think the change with Iceman is permanent? It shouldn't be that big of a deal but it fucks with his dynamics with other characters and he overpowers everything with how cartoonishly gay he's written

I'm okay with Iceman being gay in theory (because I literally don't care about the sexuality of fictional characters) but the pandering hurts. A couple decades ago they retconned the Pied Piper (DC, not sure if there's a Marvel Pied Piper but I would not be surprised) to be gay sometime after he became a vigilante good guy, and I think he's a pretty good character before and after even if some writers are still heavy handed with the "he's gaaaay" stuff, but I don't think it's an inherently bad change. It's just handled badly with Iceman.

I must admit I actually like the cover of that issue, though.
 
I'm okay with Iceman being gay in theory (because I literally don't care about the sexuality of fictional characters) but the pandering hurts. A couple decades ago they retconned the Pied Piper (DC, not sure if there's a Marvel Pied Piper but I would not be surprised) to be gay sometime after he became a vigilante good guy, and I think he's a pretty good character before and after even if some writers are still heavy handed with the "he's gaaaay" stuff, but I don't think it's an inherently bad change. It's just handled badly with Iceman.

I must admit I actually like the cover of that issue, though.
I think it's a problem since it screws with Iceman's character arc being about his immaturity screwing him over and he's always looking for a way out from getting dragged into the usual mutant mess (like how he pretended to lose his powers after M-Day). Making the guy who just wants to be a superhero without baggage of the mutant label a closeted gay man is taking his thing a bit too literal imo. Plus it's strange how he went from being portrayed as "gross immature dudebro" to "gross immature dudebro but it's okay, he craves cock" in the span of one page. I don't know how many stories you need to write to save this from being "learning to be mature is dumb, be gay instead".

He gets yelled at for hitting on every woman but once he was declared gay, he starts trying to get in every other man's pants and he's "cool" for it.
 
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The difference with the Pied Piper was that was doing a period when The Flash's writer realized that the Rogues were pretty one dimensional characters and decided to spend a good deal of time developing each of the main ones to make them fleshed out characters.
 
I think it's a problem since it screws with Iceman's character arc being about his immaturity screwing him over and he's always looking for a way out from getting dragged into the usual mutant mess (like how he pretended to lose his powers after M-Day). Making the guy who just wants to be a superhero without baggage of the mutant label a closeted gay man is taking his thing a bit too literal imo.
I know fuck-all about Iceman tbh (was never an X-men person), but I can see that. I think there's something to be said about characters evolving as time goes on (I mean, One More Day came about because Quesadilla didn't think that Peter Parker would appeal to people anymore if he had a stable, happy marriage for...some reason), so I'm not inherent against changing aspects of a character, but it requires some level of subtlety or talent, which this issue lacked, and probably isn't going to gain in the next few issues before it gets cancelled like all the other character-driven Marvel books lately.
He gets yelled at for hitting on every woman but once he was declared gay, he starts trying to get in every other man's pants and he's "cool" for it.
These writers don't understand what the word "hypocrisy" means.
The difference with the Pied Piper was that was doing a period when The Flash's writer realized that the Rogues were pretty one dimensional characters and decided to spend a good deal of time developing each of the main ones to make them fleshed out characters.
True! Just furthers my point that evolution isn't a terrible thing. Moving out of the Silver Age was hard on some characters, it was change or die. Characters should evolve with the times in interesting ways. Not to shove a narrative or agenda down the reader's throats.
 
I expected the Marvel Legacy announcements to be underwhelming, but somehow it managed to be worse. Two or three new series and a bunch of variant covers. Those are definitely going to "change the comic book industry".
 
Yeah, nothing really special so far except for a bunch of homages to classic covers. Nice to see that Ben and Johnny are getting back together since they had some off panel falling out after Secret War. Other than that it doesn't look like they're changing creative teams for any of their struggling books, which is what they really needed to do to compete with Rebirth.
 
I still think the original characters are getting a return including the Fantastic Four but Marvel is saving the reveal for later. IMO that's a really dumb idea if true because you're only going to get more people jumping ship to never trust Marvel again. It's the last thing people want to see right now

Marvel's troubles remind me of a story I heard about a electrician who had a job in Marvel's NY office. It was an awkward quiet place with this feeling of everyone hates each other. They also seemed clueless to their own comics history but the guy didn't want to be unprofessional and correct them. Can't confirm this happened though.
 
I expected the Marvel Legacy announcements to be underwhelming, but somehow it managed to be worse.
I can't get over the fact that it's called Marvel Legacy. Y'know, that arc word that Geoff Johns has been using for Rebirth constantly? They're not even trying to be subtle about it being a ripoff.
I still think the original characters are getting a return including the Fantastic Four but Marvel is saving the reveal for later. IMO that's a really dumb idea if true because you're only going to get more people jumping ship to never trust Marvel again. It's the last thing people want to see right now
No, this is actually an okay (but desperate) move. People want the characters they love back. Bringing back F4 is an easy and cheap way to get at least a few people back on board. Also, more publicity. The entire thing is being done to capitalize on peoples' nostalgia in a desperate attempt to bring back people who actually read comic books.
I remember hearing that story. I can believe it. This is what happens when you hire people for their political beliefs, ethnicity and sexuality rather than hiring them for their talent. While Johns and the other folks at DC are not perfect storytellers, the Rebirth stuff at least has a feeling of passion behind it. They care. That's all I'm looking for.
 
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No, this is actually an okay (but desperate) move. People want the characters they love back. Bringing back F4 is an easy and cheap way to get at least a few people back on board. Also, more publicity. The entire thing is being done to capitalize on peoples' nostalgia in a desperate attempt to bring back people who actually read comic books.
I think the only cover they revealed that would grab the attention of old fans is Jane Foster mimicking the Death of Captain Marvel. The others are only going to remind them while they left. Granted, it was never likely we'd get a sudden change back and Legacy would have them return one by one. Even Rebirth is still in the period of showing cracks in the DCU without giving everything back at once.
 
The only Marvel Legacy thing I'm remotely interested in is the Death of the Mighty Thor, since I want to see how they fuck it up. The original story is a classic, but I don't think most modern readers would actually enjoy if they read it today. For those who haven't read it, there is only a single action scene in first few pages of the story. The story itself is quiet action wise, it's mostly a character driven story with various characters coming to terms with Mar-Vell dying. The big climatic moment of the story is Mar-Vell accepting his death during a fever dream where Thanos guides him to the other side. I half expect Marvel will instead have Fem-Thor die in a blaze of glory or something similar and completely miss the point of the original story.
 
A reformed Joker retconned as Justin Trudeau. Or something. Who brings an end to Batman's vigilante ways. Coming soon.


THESE DAYS IT MAKES MORE SENSE FOR BATMAN TO BE A VILLAIN

THESE DAYS IT MAKES MORE SENSE FOR BATMAN TO BE A VILLAIN
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BATMAN HAS BEEN a hero for decades, constantly saving Gotham City from mad men and murderers. But take away the cape and noble purpose and he's actually a terror—someone capable of causing as much damage as he prevents. And seen through the lens of the 21st century, a time when it's understood that vigilante justice is dangerous, Bruce Wayne's actions don't look much more safe or sane than the Joker's. And in his next incarnation, they're not.

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For Batman: White Knight, writer-illustrator Sean Murphy(The Wake, Punk Rock Jesus) created a version of Gotham with real, modern-day problems, and then let Batmansolve them by making him the villain. How? In the comic mini-series' alternate-reality, it's the Joker—cured of his insanity—who sees that Bruce Wayne is just another part of the city's vicious cycle of crime and sets out to stop him.

"My main goal was to undo the comic tropes while changing Gotham from a comic book city into a real city—a city dealing with everything from Black Lives Matter to the growing wage gap," Murphy says. "[But] rather than write a comic about the wage gap, I gave those ideas to the Joker, who leads a kind of media war against Gotham's elite by winning people over with his potent observations and rhetoric."

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Despite the fact that their roles are reversed, having heroes and villains who exist as a response to the current political climate is very much on-brand for Batman. For nearly eight decades the Joker and Dark Knight have faced off in the comics and onscreen, and each time, whether they're brooding or cartoonish, they've come to represent the kind of good or bad guys their audience needs. In the 1940s, when the Joker was introduced in Batman #1, the idea of having a masked vigilante face-punching foes seemed like a good way to fight crime. But in the decades since, society has learned that's not always the best course of action. "It's sexy to think crime can be stopped with a fist, but the real solution is a lot more boring than that: education, increasing wages, and building trust," Murphy says. "The line Batman rides between 'noble vigilante' and 'overzealous oppressor' will always be shifting as our own society changes."

And much like the creators of history's various Batmen have changed him with the times, they've also updated the Joker to suit his environs. Over the years, he's been a sadistic psychopath and a giggling, greedy comedian depending on the story's—and the zeitgeist's—demands. That's been true in the comic books and onscreen. The original murderous conception of the character by Bill Finger and Jerry Robinson had to be toned when the Comics Code Authoritywas established in 1954, but in the 1970s the dark, murderous Joker came back. More recently, he's reflected the outlandishness of the 1980s thanks to Jack Nicholson's portrayal in Tim Burton's Batman, and the existential dread of the new millennium via Heath Ledger's performance in The Dark Knight.

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And Murphy's latest version, which will hit comic book stores Oct. 4, is just as apropos. At a time when protectors fail to protect and propaganda has immense power, very few stories—in comics, at least—could be more of-the-moment than a series that shows Batman's vigilantism as part of a vicious cycle and the Joker's charisma as a marketing tool for his brand of justice.

"We know the Joker is a genius, we know he's relentless, and we know he can play the crowd, so why not make him a politician?" Murphy asks. "Frank Miller modeled him after David Bowie. Chris Nolan showed him as a controlled sociopath. I see the Joker as Don Draper."
 
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