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I can't help but love Spiderman: Reign as a concept, despite Peter becoming a radioactive coomer.
 
Stab You in the Back said:
Doomsday Clock, if only because, unlike a Tom King comic, you actually expect it to have some semblance of quality. The original Watchmen built up to an epic confrontation between our heroes and Veidt on his moon base. Doomsday Clock builds up to nothing and ends with a disappointing whimper.

In the thrilling conclusion to our storyline, Dr. Manhattan praises Superman for 20 pages before

kidnapping a child and imbuing it with his power.

What did it all mean? Nothing! What role did any of the characters play? None at all! The whole thing was just multiverse porn for continuity-obsessed dweebs like Geoff Johns. What a fucking waste of time.
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It looks like Johns restored the DCU to its Post-Crisis glory, aside from the slight tweak of Superboy having existed and thus inspiring the creation of the Legion. Considering how badly the removal of Superboy fucked over the LOSH continuity (until they could rejigger it with the 5 Years Later arc and then AGAIN during Zero Hour), putting a young Kal-El back in the Post-crisis canon makes sense.

The one thing I a confused about - is the actor who played Nathaniel Dusk supposed to be Marionette and Mime's son that was taken from them, that somehow was shunted back in time by Manhattan? Or was he the kid who showed up at Nite Owl and Silk Spectre's house imbued with Doc's power? Or was that kid one of the 50 million aspects of Clark that Doc used as his "Anchor"? EDIT: After re-reading it, the kid that Jon dropped on Laurie and Dan was the son that was taken from Marionette and Mime. He was born in 1984 and taken in by Nite Owl's family in 1992, making him 8 years old.

I think the best part was Adrian being the pompous ass he always been and declaring, "LOOK AT HOW WELL MY PLAN WORKED!" Nigga, you did shit, other than running around lying to everyone and acting like you knew exactly how Doc and Supes were going to play everything out.
 
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I have pretty mixed feelings about Doomsday Clock. Even with the delays, I was initially intrigued by the general story idea, but it ended up falling pretty flat. A lot of it ended up feeling like needless fluff, because the ultimate conflict boiled down to Superman and Manhattan, which IMO didn't get nearly as much attention. We had more scenes of old man Johnny apparently trying to remember the JSA or something, which amounted to...absolutely nothing. It would be one thing if the old JSA and Legion characters defied Manhattan's changes to will themselves back into continuity or something, but it was Manhattan undoing his changes that brought them back, so their earlier pages were pointless. A few scenes just to establish they exist and hint at their return would have been more than enough, and then you could either streamline the story to help reduce delays, or use those pages to better focus on the main story.

I wonder if the delays were a result of the series needing to be 12 issues to mimic the original Watchmen series and just struggling to come up with enough filler material to stretch it out that far. This could have been a pretty solid and condensed shorter miniseries. As it is, I don't know if I'd outright call it bad, just underwhelming, and I think largely forgettable. The only reason it won't be forgotten outright is it can be referenced as marking the official JSA/Legion return, but I'd be surprised if most people remembered the finer details outside of the last issue.
 
I think the delay in Doomsday Clock was due DC needing to let the rest of the DCU ready for the changes and catch up. DC used this series to explain how the LOSH came back, and so that meant letting the series "pause" until the character redesigns for the new LOSH were ready.

If you look at the earlier scenes where Saturn Girl and Cosmic Boy's backs are shown in issue 12, it looks like they are wearing their classic outfits as if that was the plan until Bendis waved his dick around and said, "Hold Up. I'm going to turn the LOSH into the Burger King Kids Club. Give me a few months"

dc12.jpg
 
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Using Watchmen to make your continuity more convenient is a gross squandering of the IP - and I thought, and still think, bringing the two together was a cool idea, so I don't hate the concept per se. The only one of the later issues that landed for me was the one where Manhattan is fascinated by Superman's importance and keeps tweaking the timeline yet finding Superman as a heroic paragon to be an inevitability.

I would still have accepted it as a worthwhile price if the Hickman Legion rumours had been true.
 
Affluent Reptilian said:
Using Watchmen to make your continuity more convenient is a gross squandering of the IP - and I thought, and still think, bringing the two together was a cool idea, so I don't hate the concept per se. The only one of the later issues that landed for me was the one where Manhattan is fascinated by Superman's importance and keeps tweaking the timeline yet finding Superman as a heroic paragon to be an inevitability.

I would still have accepted it as a worthwhile price if the Hickman Legion rumours had been true.
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That's what I liked about it too. I know some people aren't happy with the ending/accusing it of being a Superman jerk off session. And I can certainly understand people being upset about having their beloved franchise forced into DC continuity just to further the main DC continuity/praise Superman. But for me, it was nice to see DC being optimistic/hopeful, especially in an event comic. No dark multiverse, no needless deaths, no heroes suddenly becoming bad guys.

Is it a relatively basic story? Sure, and I mean, it's not exactly breaking new ground to have a story where Superman is emphasized as being so hopeful/inspiring it saves the day. But in light of the general atmosphere of the rest of the DC big stories, it feels like they're breaking new ground.

IMO, it would have worked better if it was just Dr. Manhattan who crossed over. They could have explained it as him being disillusioned with the Watchmen universe after the events of the comics so when he decided to leave humanity, he took it to the extreme and left the universe, only to discover the multiverse. That's where he saw Superman and became curious about him, wondering if his world could have ended up like the main DC continuity if they had a Superman. So, he makes changes to try and prove that it was just sheer circumstance that everything worked out, but then he realizes that, no matter what he changes, Superman will be Superman, and then he goes back to the Watchmen universe feeling hopeful and optimistic. He could still fade away into nothingness, but create the "Clark" child from the end that shows up with Silk Spectre/Nite Owl.

But hey, it didn't end with Flash having killed a bunch of his friends/teammates for no reason or a Jokerized Batman opening a dark multiverse portal to invade the Watchmen universe, so it has that going for it.
 
Having not yet read it, I’m very happy to hear Doomsday Clock has a happy ending. Despite how beloved he is, Superman frequently gets the shaft from DC when they can come up with even the most convoluted reasons for Batman to be more competent/important.
 
Cyber Bowling said:
IMO, it would have worked better if it was just Dr. Manhattan who crossed over. They could have explained it as him being disillusioned with the Watchmen universe after the events of the comics so when he decided to leave humanity, he took it to the extreme and left the universe, only to discover the multiverse. That's where he saw Superman and became curious about him, wondering if his world could have ended up like the main DC continuity if they had a Superman. So, he makes changes to try and prove that it was just sheer circumstance that everything worked out, but then he realizes that, no matter what he changes, Superman will be Superman, and then he goes back to the Watchmen universe feeling hopeful and optimistic. He could still fade away into nothingness, but create the "Clark" child from the end that shows up with Silk Spectre/Nite Owl.
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I like this idea. One I'd been thinking of when the event was first announced was that the New 52 universe was a Dr Manhattan creation; having been inspired by the DC Universe where heroes actually worked, he wanted to see if he could replicate it, but the tainted worldview from his own cynical universe and his desire to design everything mechanistically compromised his efforts, giving us the dark New 52. Have it end with the essential natures of the heroes overcoming his fuckups, him learning of his limitations and inability to be such a master clockmaker, whatever.

I probably like yours more but it's something else I think might've worked.

It's not the worst ending we could've had, it's just... Not Watchmen-worthy. There are few authors who can write Watchmen-worthy stuff; the safest bet to achieve that outcome would've required driving dumptrucks of money to Jon Hickman's house.
 
You know, I'm not a comics expert, but after being frustrated by all these reboots, I think one of the main issues with superhero comics is that everyone wants to be the world builder, and play god, but few actually want to do the leg work to make it work.

Let me explain

Whenever I see fanfiction or friends that love comics they always talk about how their ideal version of DC/Marvel will have permanent deaths, and won't have Time travel etc, and how X character should be like Y version mixed with X and Z, but will rarely speak about how that would make writing stories interesting for each character. And I suspect the professional writers actually employed by the big two do the same.

Imaginary example:

Maybe worldbuilder guy hates Batman's Alfred so he makes it that he never existed in the latest retcon. That makes him happy because he plays god, but now the guy that actually writes Batman can't have a bonding story with Alfred and Batman , because world builder guy just wanted to impose himself but won’t actually write it.

So you need another bullshit crisis to bring Alfred back.

Does that make sense?
 
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Water-T said:
It looks like Johns restored the DCU to its Post-Crisis glory, aside from the slight tweak of Superboy having existed and thus inspiring the creation of the Legion. Considering how badly the removal of Superboy fucked over the LOSH continuity (until they could rejigger it with the 5 Years Later arc and then AGAIN during Zero Hour), putting a young Kal-El back in the Post-crisis canon makes sense.
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Water-T said:
I think the delay in Doomsday Clock was due DC needing to let the rest of the DCU ready for the changes and catch up. DC used this series to explain how the LOSH came back, and so that meant letting the series "pause" until the character redesigns for the new LOSH were ready.

If you look at the earlier scenes where Saturn Girl and Cosmic Boy's backs are shown in issue 12, it looks like they are wearing their classic outfits as if that was the plan until Bendis waved his dick around and said, "Hold Up. I'm going to turn the LOSH into the Burger King Kids Club. Give me a few months"
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Can’t believe Johns made Kal Superboy cannon again(Which I really like),sad we are not going to see his new Legion relaunch that he has been clearly been wanting to do but rather Bendis’s chronic need to Bendis.
 
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I read The Dark Knight Returns: The Golden Child #1 earlier tonight. Something about it seems off. Like, there’s a good story to be found here, but the weird Trump stuff seems sort of shoved in there. Trump is never mentioned by name, and his dialogue only vaguely resembles his real-life speech. He’s only referred to as “The Governor”. It almost feels like the artist and the editor chose to make the governor character Trump out of spite for the readers. The fact that they shoved the climate change mongoloid Greta into one of the crowd scenes also seems really out of place.

The book is mostly about Jon Kent and Darkseid who are both pretty well characterized. Frank Miller really needs to stop with having characters repeating the same few words over and over again though. It doesn’t actually add depth to the dialogue like he thinks it does.

I’m probably going to pick up the second issue since, despite the weird SJW shit, I do want to see what comes next.
 
icecait said:
As the population gets more diverse, it gets more obese.
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Detrogen said:
I read The Dark Knight Returns: The Golden Child #1 earlier tonight. Something about it seems off. Like, there’s a good story to be found here, but the weird Trump stuff seems sort of shoved in there. Trump is never mentioned by name, and his dialogue only vaguely resembles his real-life speech. He’s only referred to as “The Governor”. It almost feels like the artist and the editor chose to make the governor character Trump out of spite for the readers. The fact that they shoved the climate change mongoloid Greta into one of the crowd scenes also seems really out of place.

The book is mostly about Jon Kent and Darkseid who are both pretty well characterized. Frank Miller really needs to stop with having characters repeating the same few words over and over again though. It doesn’t actually add depth to the dialogue like he thinks it does.

I’m probably going to pick up the second issue since, despite the weird SJW shit, I do want to see what comes next.
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Frank Miller's always been a little weird on politics. His instincts seem conservative, but he gets stuck into conservative figures more often in his works. It's been that way since Dark Knight Returns, which was transparently a reaction to the incredible crime and disorder that followed civil rights and the consequent population dislocations, but where Frank never quite articulated that well. Here, I find it hard to tell what he's saying other than maybe a vague 'Orange man bad' - but then, as you say, it's not such an obvious parallel in how the Trump anlaogue behaves (nor is the Trump analogue shown too offensively, despite Darkseid supporting him and what that implies), that it's clear that the message is so simple. Possibly he's simply someone who feels politically intense in a vague sense, but never examines his beliefs too closely and picks them up by osmosis from the fact he's surrounded by Democrats, and the confusion makes its way into his comics.

Despite the weirdness, I didn't mind it. It had some cool imagery - Darkseid actually seemed creepy and threatening for once - and I'm interested in the characters. Rather concerned at the love heart Batwoman sent on the phone at the end...
 
Affluent Reptilian said:
Frank Miller's always been a little weird on politics. His instincts seem conservative, but he gets stuck into conservative figures more often in his works. It's been that way since Dark Knight Returns, which was transparently a reaction to the incredible crime and disorder that followed civil rights and the consequent population dislocations, but where Frank never quite articulated that well. Here, I find it hard to tell what he's saying other than maybe a vague 'Orange man bad' - but then, as you say, it's not such an obvious parallel in how the Trump anlaogue behaves (nor is the Trump analogue shown too offensively, despite Darkseid supporting him and what that implies), that it's clear that the message is so simple. Possibly he's simply someone who feels politically intense in a vague sense, but never examines his beliefs too closely and picks them up by osmosis from the fact he's surrounded by Democrats, and the confusion makes its way into his comics.

Despite the weirdness, I didn't mind it. It had some cool imagery - Darkseid actually seemed creepy and threatening for once - and I'm interested in the characters. Rather concerned at the love heart Batwoman sent on the phone at the end...
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Yes, I loved Darkseid in this book. He was treated less as a villain and more as a force of nature. I definitely want to see more of Superman’s kids. I like that they’re not boy scouts like Supes himself.

And I agree I can’t really tell what his politics are. There’s some lefty imagery in there, but the woke antifa crowd isn’t exactly treated with reverie. It just seems like Batwoman works them into a tizzy for her own benefit.

I think this issue might be worth a reread. It might become clearer to me a second time around, but the fact I have something to think about means a lot. It’s definitely more rewarding than Miller’s recent Superman: Year One.
 
Affluent Reptilian said:
Frank Miller's always been a little weird on politics. His instincts seem conservative, but he gets stuck into conservative figures more often in his works. It's been that way since Dark Knight Returns, which was transparently a reaction to the incredible crime and disorder that followed civil rights and the consequent population dislocations, but where Frank never quite articulated that well. Here, I find it hard to tell what he's saying other than maybe a vague 'Orange man bad' - but then, as you say, it's not such an obvious parallel in how the Trump anlaogue behaves (nor is the Trump analogue shown too offensively, despite Darkseid supporting him and what that implies), that it's clear that the message is so simple. Possibly he's simply someone who feels politically intense in a vague sense, but never examines his beliefs too closely and picks them up by osmosis from the fact he's surrounded by Democrats, and the confusion makes its way into his comics.

Despite the weirdness, I didn't mind it. It had some cool imagery - Darkseid actually seemed creepy and threatening for once - and I'm interested in the characters. Rather concerned at the love heart Batwoman sent on the phone at the end...
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I know Frank Miller believes that politicians are sleazy and the free speech is great, but other than that he doesn't seem to have put much thought into politics. Which is fine, because I'm not sure were need any more lengthy, hamfisted political speeches in comics, but Frank Miller 's political beliefs can definitely be incoherent much of the time.
 
The Judas Contract Dark Multiverse one-shot has something a bit interesting; what sets things careening off into an awful reality isn't someone snapping and giving in to evil impulses, but misplaced empathy. Of course DC has been dark for a while and stories like this are arguably against the optimistic spirit of DC, but it's rare that a modern writer is willing to explicitly put forward the notion those soft impulses can be destructive.
 
Issue 28# of Immortal Hulk spoilers:
It's a political abortion. Elwing portrays the older more conservative Americans as religious lunatics who'd more than happily shoot their own daughter because they're afraid of them, because the "devil" got inside of them. He portrays the obvious teenagers who don't have enough life experience, and experience as the future, and obviously right. It all feels phoned in.

The new artist is still quite talented. He's not as good as the last artist, but even then its still nice on the eyes. The main minotaur villain is cool as well, and its hilarious how he pretty much made bank on this whole entire movement Hulk started by selling merchandise.
 
Clipper said:
Issue 28# of Immortal Hulk spoilers:
It's a political abortion. Elwing portrays the older more conservative Americans as religious lunatics who'd more than happily shoot their own daughter because they're afraid of them, because the "devil" got inside of them. He portrays the obvious teenagers who don't have enough life experience, and experience as the future, and obviously right. It all feels phoned in.

The new artist is still quite talented. He's not as good as the last artist, but even then its still nice on the eyes. The main minotaur villain is cool as well, and its hilarious how he pretty much made bank on this whole entire movement Hulk started by selling merchandise.
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i wonder what future generations will think of these stories.
 
Clipper said:
Issue 28# of Immortal Hulk spoilers:
It's a political abortion. Elwing portrays the older more conservative Americans as religious lunatics who'd more than happily shoot their own daughter because they're afraid of them, because the "devil" got inside of them. He portrays the obvious teenagers who don't have enough life experience, and experience as the future, and obviously right. It all feels phoned in.

The new artist is still quite talented. He's not as good as the last artist, but even then its still nice on the eyes. The main minotaur villain is cool as well, and its hilarious how he pretty much made bank on this whole entire movement Hulk started by selling merchandise.
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It’s a shame what Ewing has done to what could have been his “Saga of the Swamp Thing”. Issues 1-25 may go down as all-time Hulk classics. I know I plan on getting the collected editions of them myself. It just feels like so much wasted potential to see what #26 onward has devolved into. And to think Marvel dragged Alex Ross into this as well...
 
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