Star Trek - Space: The Final Frontier

Fatsuit Shinji said:
The booby-trap wasn't for humans but for telepaths irrelevant of sentient species.
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Thanks for reminding me about that because I had memory-holed the fact that the telepaths are basically Vorlon interns.

JMS just lucked into Andrea Thompson leaving the show, because otherwise Kosh’s brain assault on Talia makes little sense if she’s supposed to be his servant, and yep, sucks to be Lyta: like imagine you’re genetically engineered by space angels and you still need c-pap just to hang out on their planet.

(Iirc there was some weird blood feud between telepaths and technomages, supposedly because they were like leftover grunts from the Vorlons' and Shadows' wars, who just kind of forgot their allegiances but still hated each other anyway. The show barely touched it and the novels probably padded it out more.)
 
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Captain Syrup said:
Iirc there was some weird blood feud between telepaths and technomages, supposedly because they were like leftover grints from the Vorlons and Shadow wars, who just kind of forgot their allegiances but still hated each other anyway. The show barely touched it and the novels probably padded it out more.
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As it is stated and shown throughout the series, Shadows are weak against telepaths. So it is a no brainer they will booby-trapped their home world should any telepath comes over and try to shit up the place.
 
A question for the Star Trek thread.
It's commonly held that the good Star Trek films are those that are evenly numbered in order of release if you include Galaxy Quest. (Wrath of Khan, Voyage Home, Undiscovered Country, First Contact, Galaxy Quest, Star Trek(reboot), Beyond). With the release of the Section 31 film, an odd numbered entry, could it be possible that the next Star Trek film will be good? Or has Kurtz-trek so infected the franchise that we'll need to set a death date?
 
ShapelyMutton said:
A question for the Star Trek thread.
It's commonly held that the good Star Trek films are those that are evenly numbered in order of release if you include Galaxy Quest. (Wrath of Khan, Voyage Home, Undiscovered Country, First Contact, Galaxy Quest, Star Trek(reboot), Beyond). With the release of the Section 31 film, an odd numbered entry, could it be possible that the next Star Trek film will be good? Or has Kurtz-trek so infected the franchise that we'll need to set a death date?
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Kutzman Trek isn't even Trek.
 
ShapelyMutton said:
A question for the Star Trek thread.
It's commonly held that the good Star Trek films are those that are evenly numbered in order of release if you include Galaxy Quest. (Wrath of Khan, Voyage Home, Undiscovered Country, First Contact, Galaxy Quest, Star Trek(reboot), Beyond). With the release of the Section 31 film, an odd numbered entry, could it be possible that the next Star Trek film will be good? Or has Kurtz-trek so infected the franchise that we'll need to set a death date?
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Except The Motion Picture (especially the director's cut that fixed the pacing issues) and The Search For Spock are also good. I don't know why The Search for Spock is so maligned in popular culture. Not enough shooting and explosions for the normoids (disregarding the entire final act)?
 
Welf Welf said:
Except The Motion Picture (especially the director's cut that fixed the pacing issues) and The Search For Spock are also good. I don't know why The Search for Spock is so maligned in popular culture. Not enough shooting and explosions for the normoids (disregarding the entire final act)?
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BIG BILL HELL'S said:
Because it's a mediocre movie sandwiched between two good-to-great movies, and back then people didn't realize just how bad Star Trek could be.
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Hey frens. I trying to get a friend into Star Trek. I decided to start with TOS because the episodes are the least connected and she has positive things to say about several of the actors.

So we've seen City on the Edge of Forever, Trouble With Tribbles (which she liked so much that I showed her More Trials More Tribbles, which we both thought was lame, and Trials and Tribbleations, mostly because I doubt she'd remember the original if we waited til we get around to DS9.

Can I get some suggested ToS episodes for somebody still getting into it? So bad it's good are ok, but no boring ones yet. I do intend to show her the movies eventually too. (might skip 1 and 5... Haven't decided yet.)

I would also be grateful for some advice on how to show somebody TNG. I'm not even sure I could subject myself to that whole first season again, let alone her... But I know you just just ignore it all if you care about the story. Which I do.
 
ShapelyMutton said:
It's commonly held that the good Star Trek films are those that are evenly numbered in order of release if you include Galaxy Quest. (Wrath of Khan, Voyage Home, Undiscovered Country, First Contact, Galaxy Quest, Star Trek(reboot), Beyond).
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The “odd/even Trek rule” fell apart with Nemesis.

But if you want, you can reboot the scorecard for the Kelvin timeline: 2009 good. Into Darkness? Disaster. Beyond? Kinda “good” but that’s the ratchet effect. You’re just happy you aren't drowning in diarrhea this time. Section 31 was a failed pilot, but it's movie-length, so yeah, bad. Maybe the next one will be “good."
Welf Welf said:
Except The Motion Picture (especially the director's cut that fixed the pacing issues) and The Search For Spock are also good. I don't know why The Search for Spock is so maligned in popular culture
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The Search for Spock is fine, but you can feel the air leave the room the second they swap out Saavik. They throw in Kirk’s son, a total wet rag character nobody remembers. WoK spent two hours hyping up Genesis and then “oops, turns out the planet’s a lemon, it’s gonna explode in an hour.” Okay, then why didn’t Spock turn into a raisin corpse immediately? (There was some drunk technobabble about unstable matrixes or something.)
 
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UnKillFill said:
Can I get some suggested ToS episodes for somebody still getting into it? So bad it's good are ok, but no boring ones yet. I do intend to show her the movies eventually too. (might skip 1 and 5... Haven't decided yet.)
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"Balance of Terror" is a "hunt the enemy submarine" episode IN SPACE, but it's still really good. I also really liked "A Piece of the Action" even if the whole premise was really hokey.

I might be biased because TOS is my second favorite behind DS9, but none of the episodes are "boring", imo. There's great episodes, there's "good enough" ones, and then there's some "what in the goddamn were they thinking" ones, but I wasn't bored watching any of them.
 
UnKillFill said:
Hey frens. I trying to get a friend into Star Trek. I decided to start with TOS because the episodes are the least connected and she has positive things to say about several of the actors.
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Must watch TOS episodes

1. Journey to Babel - great episode but that might just be because I am a McCoy simp
2. Devil in the Dark - good spooky alien stuff
3. Balance of Terror - duh
4. Amok Time - again duh
5. Space Seed - not super awesome but you'll need to know about Khan
6. Mirror Mirror - bearded Spock nuf said.
7. Doomsday Machine - awesome Sci-Fi stuff
8. Immunity Syndrome - more awesome Sci-Fi stuff
9. The Enterprise Incident - Spock gets laid
10. A piece of the action - good all around goofy fun
 
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UnKillFill said:
Can I get some suggested ToS episodes for somebody still getting into it?
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The Squire of Gothos: TOS had a lot of episodes that involved the crew bumping into a god-like alien looking down on humanity for being savage, but this one has a fun twist where the god-like alien admires humanity for how savage and warmongering they are.

Arena: This is the one where all the "Kirk fights a lizard man" jokes came from, but there's more to it than that. It touches on themes of war and how easy it is to write off your enemy as soulless monsters.

Court Martial: The first of many beloved courtroom episodes in the franchise with a compelling mystery.

Space Seed: If you're showing someone Wrath of Khan, this will give them more context for Khan's motivations. Outside of that, it's a really fun "take back the ship from the bad guy" plot, and has some major worldbuilding by explaining what humanity was like in this world before it truly took to the stars.

A Taste of Armageddon: Another strong episode touching on the horrors of war with a creative concept.

Amok Time: This was the episode that actually got me into Star Trek, and it's a great way to start. It fleshes out the culture of the Vulcans while exploring Spock and Kirk's friendship.

Mirror, Mirror: This is the one that really popularized the concept of a "mirror universe", for better or for worse.
 
UnKillFill said:
Can I get some suggested ToS episodes for somebody still getting into it? So bad it's good are ok, but no boring ones yet. I do intend to show her the movies eventually too. (might skip 1 and 5... Haven't decided yet.)
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The Cage, or The Menagerie if you want the framing story and the slightly happier ending. It's not just an important part of the franchise's history, it's darn good television. The antagonists have real menace to them, we get some interesting contrasts between duty and fantasy (some of them quite dark), Pike's attempts to outwit his captors under unrelenting psychological pressure are fun to watch, and there are some well-developed characters with unusually strong female drives.
 
"Conscience of the King" is the prototypical DS9 episode. Ron Moore points to it as a blueprint.

It’s that recurring Trek thing: the war criminal who never had a Nuremberg, just shuffles off into civilian life and gaslights himself into believing he’s misunderstood instead of a butcher. Kodos isn’t hiding out of guilt, he’s basically in witness protection because the Federation won’t let him hang out at dinner parties anymore.

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The twist is obvious, but the acting saves it. This is Trek tipping its hand: under all the phasers and rubber rocks it’s a Shakespeare troupe in space. Later they’ll do it again with “The Die is Cast.":lol:
 
Starting with Season 3 TNG is probably the best way to ease people into Star Trek. Smash them with some good episodes and then they can go back to TOS if they feel like it. I consider TOS a 'first draft' because they didn't know what the fuck they were doing with its disjointed worldbuilding. UESPA instead of Starfleet, random stardates, dumb warp speeds, distances travelled etc. Triggers my autism.
 
Commissar Fuklaw said:
I consider TOS a 'first draft' because they didn't know what the fuck they were doing with its disjointed worldbuilding.
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I'll agree with @Commissar Fuklaw that TOS always felt like a demo reel. That was my impression too. It’s not something you can hang extended lore on.

What did we really get out of STD and SNW? Pike, I guess? 🤔 But I’m already worn out by his whole megachurch pastor demeanor and that stupid Scott Caan haircut.

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Rebecca Romijn looks better than ever with her Ava Gardner wigs and makeup. But that’s because she’s Rebecca Romijn and has nerd pedigree, not because Number One is doing anything particularly interesting.
 
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Pike was decent until the writers pulled a Dukat on him

The viewers committed the sin of liking Pike more then Black Jesus Superwoman so his character got mulched so the fans would hate him. Too bad for the STD writers they ended up making Pike more bad ass and a better captain by acting almost like a God damn Starship Captain and not a ADHD affected ditsy teenager like the rest of the STD cast.

Probably because they made Pike everything they (the writers) hate. You know, commanding, stern but willing to listen, intelligent, resourceful. In their mind they made Pike into the ultimate asshole. Which goes to show you exactly how fucked up the STD writers are as people, that they would look at a man acting like *gasp* a man and think "oh yah no one will like him now tee hee".

Didn't hurt that Ason Mount was the only decent actor in the whole cast either. He actually tried to make Pike act something like a real captian would...well when the script would allow him too and wasn't forcing him to be retarded or evil just because.

Can you even imagine Pike yelling "Go SCIENCE!!!"

I didn't think so.
 
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