Star Trek - Space: The Final Frontier

[Cyril Sneer]

This is almost certainly deliberate casting and directing choice. Current goal is to not portray a high standard of physical fitness and attractiveness. That would be elitist and counter to current goals which are anti-aspirational. Or to be more accurate, not the aspiration to be signalled to the audience.

Yes, Current Trek is so anti-aspirational it's quite sickening.

Didn't TNG already do that?
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Good catch, but I think a costume designer would say that those are technically women's uniforms being worn by men, not actual "gender-neutral" ones.

 

[The Great Chandler]

Thinking about another aspect of the series, is it just me, or do Federation humans seem distinctly less physically impressive in Star Date: Current Year vs. classic Trek?

I know they've taken fire for being smelly and uncomfortable to the point of back-strain, but one thing that the first-season TNG uniforms really did well was show off just how fit everyone in the cast was, particularly the background crewmen, who seemed to tend towards a certain physical type, that being willowy frames (both petite and leggy) for the women and tall, broad-shouldered ones for the men, with prominent jawlines and cheekbones much in evidence for both sexes.

Call it "unrealistic" if you wish, raise a hue and cry that it perpetuates "negative body-image" if you absolutely can't help yourself, but the well-proportioned physiques on display mesh rather well with the concept of a utopian future Earth, where most common social and physical ailments have been thoroughly brought under control, and most certainly for Starfleet, which after all represents the best and brightest that Mankind has to offer.*

In Current Trek, by contrast, we have this:

I'm...not even sure where to begin.

*Yeah, I know Dr. Selar is a Vulcan, but c'mon, it's Suzie Plakson: Yowza!!!

The first TNG one look like Chads who could kick your ass in seconds. The second one mostly look like a Starbucks workplace.

 

[Stab You in the Back]

Thinking about another aspect of the series, is it just me, or do Federation humans seem distinctly less physically impressive in Star Date: Current Year vs. classic Trek?

I know they've taken fire for being smelly and uncomfortable to the point of back-strain, but one thing that the first-season TNG uniforms really did well was show off just how fit everyone in the cast was, particularly the background crewmen, who seemed to tend towards a certain physical type, that being willowy frames (both petite and leggy) for the women and tall, broad-shouldered ones for the men, with prominent jawlines and cheekbones much in evidence for both sexes.

My understanding is that the costume budget for the show was next to zero, so its not so much about hiring skinny extras, but about hiring extras who fit into the 10 or so uniforms that they had on hand. If you want to play a fun TNG drinking game, watch a season seven episode and take a drink every time you see a crewmember with an old ass uniform from the first couple of seasons.

 

[ZMOT]

Good catch, but I think a costume designer would say that those are technically women's uniforms being worn by men, not actual "gender-neutral" ones.

hey if a man wants to swing around unrestrained by cloth in the 24th century it doesn't mean it's a women's uniform.

Thinking about another aspect of the series, is it just me, or do Federation humans seem distinctly less physically impressive in Star Date: Current Year vs. classic Trek?

star fleet, as much UN blue helm as they might be, are still military with it's structure and requirements. can you imagine anyone of those lardasses fight against aliens that want to start some shit? it's just another aspect where nutrek writing doesn't make a lick of sense, it's literal soiboi fantasy at this point.

 

[Uranus Pink]

My understanding is that the costume budget for the show was next to zero, so its not so much about hiring skinny extras, but about hiring extras who fit into the 10 or so uniforms that they had on hand. If you want to play a fun TNG drinking game, watch a season seven episode and take a drink every time you see a crewmember with an old ass uniform from the first couple of seasons.

İn fairness the U.S. military tend to run into that issue when uniform changes incur and didn't budget or provide for everyone to recieve their uniforms at roughly the same time period. Plus TNG was way ahead of the curve of the U.S. uniform debacle/CF that supposedly ended a few years ago.

 

[UnKillFill]

My understanding is that the costume budget for the show was next to zero... ...If you want to play a fun TNG drinking game, watch a season seven episode and take a drink every time you see a crewmember with an old ass uniform from the first couple of seasons.

Funny enough, it doesn't seem like they increased the wardrobe budget any for Generations.

That's supposedly Avery Brooks' old uniform that clearly isn't fitting Frakes, and if I remember correctly, several main characters (especially Picard) switched back and forth between old and new uniforms, seemingly at random, for the entire film for some reason.

 

[Honka Honka Burning Love]

I'm rewatching DS9 and I'm in a weird spot where every other episode is about someone wanting to bang Kira.

Junk in the Truuunk

 

[Racist Trash]

Funny enough, it doesn't seem like they increased the wardrobe budget any for Generations.
View attachment 1173934
That's supposedly Avery Brooks' old uniform that clearly isn't fitting Frakes, and if I remember correctly, several main characters (especially Picard) switched back and forth between old and new uniforms, seemingly at random, for the entire film for some reason.

Watched a video about this recently, Generations was supposed to have whole new uniforms but that got dropped when they found out the design they were going to go with didn't work properly and so had to use a hodgepodge of old TNG and DS9 uniforms, I want to say if you look at Geordi his uniform sleeves don't fit at all because it's O'brians DS9 uniform. Another interesting tidbit is that Geordi is the only one that has been seen wearing the uniform as there is a very early shoot (one or two days into the original shooting) where he is wearing the protoype.

Also Generations toys have the prototype uniform as their designs were done before they went back to the old ones.

Ah found the video which I gained all this useless knowledge.

 

[Cyril Sneer]

The first TNG one look like Chads who could kick your ass in seconds.

In TNG Trek, even embryonic soyboys like Wesley Crusher eventually pupate into Chads:

The second one mostly look like a Starbucks workplace.

Pretty much. I mean, to be perfectly callous about it, it's like they cast the extras/background crewmen in TNG to look like H. Jon Benjamin sounds, and the ones in STD to look like H. Jon Benjamin looks.

My understanding is that the costume budget for the show was next to zero, so its not so much about hiring skinny extras, but about hiring extras who fit into the 10 or so uniforms that they had on hand.

Yes, those 10 or so uniforms tailored for tall, broad-shouldered, very fit people to wear.

I mean, the main cast obviously isn't so cookie-cutter in their physicality. Picard and Geordie are a little on the short side, at least in comparison with some of their shipmates (their strengths communicated more through a booming aura of authority for the one and a natural affinity for relaying technobabble for the other) and Deanna's role is pretty much to bring teh smexy to the show, so she gets custom uniforms (complete with specially-designed brassieres that apparently all the female cast members eventually tried to acquire for themselves) designed to show off her more curvaceous figure to it's best advantage (pretty much in direct contradiction of how you'd want a counselor to dress), but it seems pretty obvious that the showrunners had a particular physique in mind for the "average" Starfleet officer.

hey if a man wants to swing around unrestrained by cloth in the 24th century it doesn't mean it's a women's uniform.

LOL

But seriously, if memory serves, that's exactly what it was: the costume department stuck a few hapless male extras in some of the women's costumes, either as a joke or because the increasingly erratic Roddenberry had taken to a shine to the idea, I don't recall exactly.

star fleet, as much UN blue helm as they might be, are still military with it's structure and requirements. can you imagine anyone of those lardasses fight against aliens that want to start some shit? it's just another aspect where nutrek writing doesn't make a lick of sense, it's literal soiboi fantasy at this point.

Indeed. For that matter, the whole rigmarole about being explorers rather than serious military personnel that's dogged the franchise since the inception of TNG is rather undercut by the fact that the United States Navy has been intimately involved in exploration and various scientific endeavors for almost its entire operational history.

İn fairness the U.S. military tend to run into that issue when uniform changes incur and didn't budget or provide for everyone to recieve their uniforms at roughly the same time period. Plus TNG was way ahead of the curve of the U.S. uniform debacle/CF that supposedly ended a few years ago.

Heh, just imagine some grizzled MCPO grousing endlessly about Starfleet doing away with the good old reds after 72 years of sterling service, in favor of these newfangled "modern" pyjamas.

Watched a video about this recently, Generations was supposed to have whole new uniforms but that got dropped when they found out the design they were going to go with didn't work properly and so had to use a hodgepodge of old TNG and DS9 uniforms, I want to say if you look at Geordi his uniform sleeves don't fit at all because it's O'brians DS9 uniform. Another interesting tidbit is that Geordi is the only one that has been seen wearing the uniform as there is a very early shoot (one or two days into the original shooting) where he is wearing the protoype.

Also Generations toys have the prototype uniform as their designs were done before they went back to the old ones.

I can see why they dropped them. They look kind of like cruise ship uniforms, like for a spacegoing version of The Love Boat.

 

[ZMOT]

But seriously, if memory serves, that's exactly what it was: the costume department stuck a few hapless male extras in some of the women's costumes, either as a joke or because the increasingly erratic Roddenberry had taken to a shine to the idea, I don't recall exactly.

considering what a borderline hedonist roddenberry was and his weird ideas, the latter might not even be that erratic.
there were probably quite a few female trekkies wishing they kept them. can you imagine the riker maneuver in those?

EDIT: they probably didn't have a properly fitting uniform or none at all, so they just used those. not point in fitting one or even creating one for a simple extra.

 

[Uranus Pink]

Heh, just imagine some grizzled MCPO grousing endlessly about Starfleet doing away with the good old reds after 72 years of sterling service, in favor of these newfangled "modern" pyjamas.

From the mid-00ies to a few years ago four of the five branches of the U.S. Military was changing the uniforms every couple of years in a Mother Of All Dick measuring contests between the Brass fashionistas.

For shits and giggles would have love to see a pre-Abrams Star Trek version of this former April's Fools promo.

 

[TaimuRadiu]

hey if a man wants to swing around unrestrained by cloth in the 24th century it doesn't mean it's a women's uniform.



star fleet, as much UN blue helm as they might be, are still military with it's structure and requirements. can you imagine anyone of those lardasses fight against aliens that want to start some shit? it's just another aspect where nutrek writing doesn't make a lick of sense, it's literal soiboi fantasy at this point.

Apparently we're supposed to believe Michael Burnham can take down a Klingon warrior who was trying to kill her CO, and then she gets blamed for the war for... some reason.

edit: Finished watching Picard. The one thing I have to say is that I expected nothing, and I was still disapointed.

 

[AnOminous]

In TNG Trek, even embryonic soyboys like Wesley Crusher eventually pupate into Chads:

I now imagine an alternate universe where Wil Wheaton actually grew up into that.

The virgin irl Wil Wheaton vs. the Chad Adult Wesley.

 

[trekkor]

okay, just finished the latest episode. Honestly, I have very few bad things to say about it, so I'll get those out right away

• fuck whoever decided to kill Hugh. Fuck him or her hard. What a waste of a character. I am honestly pissed off at this.
• Rios is a bit of a brainlet. Doctor lady is acting suspicious as fuck and he STILL thinks it's Raffi who is dealing with the Romulans. Dude needs to stop thinking with his dick.
• the scenes on the Borg cube were pretty boring. I don't understand why they either couldn't catch Elrond, but did capture Hugh or let Elrond go even though he is an intruder. Is it just because he's a Romulan even though he isn't on their side? Also a small side note, but I had a giggle at the LOTR-tier music playing when they showed Elrond at one point.
• I also find it weird how Doctor lady just let this complete stranger mindrape her into thinking her fanficion about Androids bringing about the end of worlds is actually something legitimate. She works in this field, she of all people shouldn't have been taken in by essentially "muh feels".

But the positive stuff was pretty good

• I actually laughed at some jokes. Picard suggesting Riker spawn (Kestra) not shoot his heart was actually kinda good.
• also thank god, she's not autistic. Just a wild girl dealing with the trauma of her brother's death. I actually really liked her. She was believable as a teenager with a more unique upbringing and I liked her bonding with Soji.
• speaking of Soji, holy shit they actually let her have some characterization. Once they got her away from the shitty Romulans incest siblings, she was actually given a chance to breathe and we got to know her fears and emotions. Kestra casually reveals she's an Android and this causes a lot of conflict for her character. This was good to see, we needed this episode so much for her.
• I know nostalgiabait and all, but man, it was great to see Riker and Troi again. The latter helping Picard with the emotional issues of his adventure and the former springing into action the moment he figures out Picard is in some deep shit made me appreciate the connection these people had. Also made me realise how fucking useless his new crew is. Picard said in ep 1 or 2 that he couldn't ask Riker or Worf to come on his mision bc of the danger, but holy shit, they would've been to Soji's planet already with time left over for a fun holodeck malfunction.
• I laughed at this, but the show kinda throws shade at his new crew with Picard pretty much admitting they're carrying so much luggage and are constantly having drama and how the TNG crew was so much better put together. I wonder which rebel writer let this part stay in.
• now this could go under the negative side, but I was kinda miffed the Rikers' also had a son who died. It reminded me of Lwaxana revealing she had another baby who also tragically died and it feels kinda shitty to have the same family go through this shit twice. But they tied it in to the Federations policy on anti-android research, so I'll let it pass. The pic of the baby and Picard was also cute. We learned more about the dead son in this one episode than most of the main characters in STD. I just thought to mention that.
• oh god, it's good to hear Picard actually being called Jean-Luc and not JL.
• I like to imagine Frakes only agreed to come and act in this show if he got to make pizza.
• The most important point to bring up is Picard. He actually felt like Picard in this episode. Troi even tells him at one point he needs to be the real him, the gentle diplomat, and man, it was such a take that at nuPicard. I don't know who the fuck wrote this episode, but they did a good job.

So aside from my disappointment with Hugh being done dirty, really good episode. But don't worry, next week we'll go back to PEW PEWS and edgy Seven vs Romulans.

 

[MembersSchoolPizza]

okay, just finished the latest episode. Honestly, I have very few bad things to say about it, so I'll get those out right away

I agree it was a better episode. And yes, fuck the writers for killing Hugh.

I'll add three other complaints, though. Well, two and a half.

One: As good as it was to see Troi and Riker again, Chuck's thing about how Troi is actually kind of a shit counselor comes back again. Soji's concerned that she isn't "real". Instead of address this in any way that seems sensible... Like, oh, "I knew Commander Data for many years, he was no less real than anyone else," or something... No, it's "Let me tell you about how if a byproduct of your creation hadn't been outlawed my son would still be alive. See, your better than "real" because something that isn't you and you had no control over could have saved my son!"

Two: I feel like the writers and/or directors really never watched Star Trek or studied it at all, and have no real clue how warp is supposed to work. They seem to be using it like it's a jump drive, or something.

The final one is... unfair to blame on this epsiode itself, exactly, so I'm only counting it as half a complaint. But dear me, the preview for next week's episode looks awful.

 

[trekkor]

I agree it was a better episode. And yes, fuck the writers for killing Hugh.

I'll add three other complaints, though. Well, two and a half.

One: As good as it was to see Troi and Riker again, Chuck's thing about how Troi is actually kind of a shit counselor comes back again. Soji's concerned that she isn't "real". Instead of address this in any way that seems sensible... Like, oh, "I knew Commander Data for many years, he was no less real than anyone else," or something... No, it's "Let me tell you about how if a byproduct of your creation hadn't been outlawed my son would still be alive. See, your better than "real" because something that isn't you and you had no control over could have saved my son!"

Two: I feel like the writers and/or directors really never watched Star Trek or studied it at all, and have no real clue how warp is supposed to work. They seem to be using it like it's a jump drive, or something.

I'll let Troi still being a shitty counselor slide because frankly, if she suddenly became super competent I'd feel like they were trying too hard. I'm fine with her being crap at her job as long as Marina doesn't look like she wants to die every time she is on-screen because they don't give her anything of importance to do.

I agree with the second complaint though, but it's Kurtzman and co. Just be glad they're not truly using warp like it's Star Wars.

The final one is... unfair to blame on this epsiode itself, exactly, so I'm only counting it as half a complaint. But dear me, the preview for next week's episode looks awful.

yeah, it was truly something. Like, the previews always look like shit, but this was somehow even worse. I'm not expecting to see anything good next week.

 

[Lithos]

Is there any room in ST for a Ferengi episode? Or does the serialization pretty much suffocate any prospet for some goofy comic relief? Ze Fronch Pirate routine didn't even come close.

 

[UnKillFill]

Is there any room in ST for a Ferengi episode? Or does the serialization pretty much suffocate any prospet for some goofy comic relief? Ze Fronch Pirate routine didn't even come close.

Come on now, do you really think these guys would be able to restrain themselves if they were writing Ferengi?

They'd probably say Grand Nagus Rom died a week after DS9 ended (which fine, he was a terrible choice to be a leader anyway) but was immediately replaced with "Grand Nagus Rump," who single-handedly made the entire Ferengi alliance into racist sexist bigots again.

Hell, Ferengi are already orange, they'd probably give him a ridiculous hairpiece too, just to drive the point home.

 

[Lithos]

Come on now, do you really think these guys would be able to restrain themselves if they were writing Ferengi?

They'd probably say Grand Nagus Rom died a week after DS9 ended (which fine, he was a terrible choice to be a leader anyway) but was immediately replaced with "Grand Nagus Rump," who single-handedly made the entire Ferengi alliance into racist sexist bigots again.

Hell, Ferengi are already orange, they'd probably give him a ridiculous hairpiece too, just to drive the point home.

I was more saying a contained episode with some relief from the racist xenophobia nonsense. The closest to fun I had was the Short Trek with Jon Benjamin, even if it took canon and lore into a basement, chained it to a radiator, and did bad, traumatizing things to it.

 

[UnKillFill]

I was more saying a contained episode with some relief from the racist xenophobia nonsense. The closest to fun I had was the Short Trek with Jon Benjamin, even if it took canon and lore into a basement, chained it to a radiator, and did bad, traumatizing things to it.

Yeah, you're not gonna get that with these writers.