Star Trek - Space: The Final Frontier

[Miller]

Jeri Taylor wrote a few books but... probably best to avoid those

Wasn't Janeway her self-insert?

 

[Flexo]

Wasn't Janeway her self-insert?

Arguably yes. She wrote an ENTIRE novel on janeway's backstory, then a SECOND novel which covered the rest of the crew. (And had a hilarious bit where Harry Kim was mistaken for gay.) So yeah, her captain alone is worth equal everybody else.

Mosaic

Revealed at last, the untold story of Kathryn Janeway! From Captain Kirk in the original series, to Captain Picard in Star Trek: The Next Generation and Captain Sisko of Star Trek: Deep Space Nine, Star Trek has been the story of mankind stretched to the ultimate limits of strength, skill, and...

memory-beta.fandom.com

Pathways

The untold story of Captain Janeway's crew! Related stories VOY episode& novelization: Caretaker: The beginning of Voyager's arc in the Delta Quadrant., VOY episode& novelization: Endgame: The end of Voyager's arc in the Delta Quadrant.

memory-beta.fandom.com

EDIT: See also Chuck's analysis of Janeway's funeral scene.

Star Trek (Voy): Coda

Star Trek Reviews

sfdebris.com

 

[GethN7]

Arguably yes. She wrote an ENTIRE novel on janeway's backstory, then a SECOND novel which covered the rest of the crew. (And had a hilarious bit where Harry Kim was mistaken for gay.) So yeah, her captain alone is worth equal everybody else.

Mosaic

Revealed at last, the untold story of Kathryn Janeway! From Captain Kirk in the original series, to Captain Picard in Star Trek: The Next Generation and Captain Sisko of Star Trek: Deep Space Nine, Star Trek has been the story of mankind stretched to the ultimate limits of strength, skill, and...

memory-beta.fandom.com

Pathways

The untold story of Captain Janeway's crew! Related stories VOY episode& novelization: Caretaker: The beginning of Voyager's arc in the Delta Quadrant., VOY episode& novelization: Endgame: The end of Voyager's arc in the Delta Quadrant.

memory-beta.fandom.com

EDIT: See also Chuck's analysis of Janeway's funeral scene.

Star Trek (Voy): Coda

Star Trek Reviews

sfdebris.com

I remember reading Pathways. It wasn't complete shit, but it had some phoned in stuff and Kes got some creepy pedoish scenes.

 

[TaimuRadiu]

Wasn't Janeway her self-insert?

Yeah.

 

[Intelligent Calcium]

I'm also surprised moviebob hasn't created a Caeliar shrine in his basement.

Nah, those are not for Bob, they're vegetarians after all. He couldn't live without pre-digested mountain dew chicken and modest portions of 12 Big Macs. Bob would make a great Cardassian overseer though, stomping down on those ignorant, superstitious Bajoran hasperat ghouls while convincing himself that he's a virtuous and noble member of the superior elite.

 

[RomanesEuntDomus]

Seven was certainly meant as a tittilating character, but the writing was surprisingly good in the end. Over the run of the show, the Seven episodes and the Doctor episodes were the best.

And Seven being controlled by the Doctor was just fun to watch.


That episode was seriously great. O'Brien as the everyman of the show had to suffer a lot, but that one takes the cake. Manly tears were shed.
Voyager also had some great episodes that hit really hard. Course: Oblivion and Mortal Coil in particular.

/edit: Heh, I just read that for Mortal Coil they initially wanted to have Samantha Wildman being resurrected, and have her be more like a zombie, more connected to death than to life, and finally wanting to kill and resurrect Naomi Wildman to get closer to her again. Now that would have been a dark episode.

There's also a pretty good episode, where Seven is overtaken by individuals that have been assimilated by the Borg, so she turns into different personalities every now and then.
It shows Jeri Ryan's range, which is pretty fucking big, considering that one might assume she only serves as eye candy.

 

[Meriasek]

On Voyager I always wondered why the Doctor never created copies of himself in sickbay or in cases of emergencies walked over to his patient instead of instantaneously appearing where he's needed.

 

[Uranus Pink]

On Voyager I always wondered why the Doctor never created copies of himself in sickbay or in cases of emergencies walked over to his patient instead of instantaneously appearing where he's needed.

Doctor did had a backup copy of himself but it was lost in the "Living Witness." Tom and Harry had tried to program a replacement doctor early in the series but were unsuccessful. In universe reasons, Voyager's crew could only tolerate one Doctor with his personality. Don't have hardware or power outside of holodecks to project multiple photonic beings for long durations. Thou it's just me speculating on it.

 

[UnKillFill]

On Voyager I always wondered why the Doctor never created copies of himself in sickbay or in cases of emergencies walked over to his patient instead of instantaneously appearing where he's needed.

The Doctor's program had some pretty tough DRM attached to it. Paris probably could have cracked it in an afternoon, but as others have pointed out already, he never really liked the Doctor enough to want other copies of him running around.

 

[Uranus Pink]

Voyager getting a copy of EMH MK2 might have been entirely doable but out of universe reasons needed to be overcome first.

 

[UnKillFill]

Voyager getting a copy of EMH MK2 might have been entirely doable but out of universe reasons needed to be overcome first.

Are you saying that you think Andy Dick should have joined the main cast of Voyager in the tail end of Season 4? (In addition to, *NOT* replacing, Picardo.) Because I surprisingly don't hate that.

 

[TaimuRadiu]

Are you saying that you think Andy Dick should have joined the main cast of Voyager in the tail end of Season 4? (In addition to, *NOT* replacing, Picardo.) Because I surprisingly don't hate that.

The two actors did play off against each other remarkably well. The only stuff I've liked Andy Dick in was Newsradio and that one episode of Voyager.

Too bad the EMH mk 2 in-universe didn't last for long; in one of the few crossovers DS9 had with VOY, Zimmerman wanted to have Bashir be the model for a Long-term Medical Hologram.

I am now manually reminding all of you that Picardo was in First Contact, DS9 and VOY. I half expected him to be in ENT somehow. Fan speculation states that he might be in Picard AND Discovery.

 

[Uranus Pink]

Are you saying that you think Andy Dick should have joined the main cast of Voyager in the tail end of Season 4? (In addition to, *NOT* replacing, Picardo.) Because I surprisingly don't hate that.

I am saying it might have been possible. But not knowing if he was available to do an ensemble role. Studio willingness to pay for an additional (semi-)permanent actor and so on. So it just remains a what if.

Edit:

Star Trek Online's Medical Pack giveaway Link EMH Holo Bashir becomes available to players. Even in STO EMH MK2 gets no love as he isn't in the game either as a NPC or bridge officer.

 

[UnKillFill]

I am now manually reminding all of you that Picardo was in First Contact, DS9 and VOY. I half expected him to be in ENT somehow. Fan speculation states that he might be in Picard AND Discovery.

He was also on the Orville, which I would count more as Trek than those last 2.

 

[Doctor Placebo]

So on a lark I started looking at memory beta again on the novels and got sucked into the talk about the final borg war...

Look at this straight from the wiki:

https://memory-beta.fandom.com/wiki/Caeliar

Spoiler: Literal Cancer

Caeliar evolved past the need for sleep, and spend their entire lives in search of artistic and scientific gains, including the Great Work.

The Caeliar have no need for farming, agriculture, animal husbandry, or economics, due to their needs being met via manipulation of catoms. Additionally, the Caeliar have a great respect for all life, and will seek to not be the cause of loss of life; this philosophy goes so far as to not eat meat or eggs or allow their guests to do so. Due to this, they will not euthanize living beings, but are willing to apply pain suppression techniques to allow the being to die peacefully.

The Caeliar species lives in absolute seclusion, masking their power signatures and obstructing scans of their world, remaining beyond detection and interaction with other species. If they are ever discovered, they merely shift the beings through space-time to a distant area. Caeliar seek to preserve and protect sentient life at all costs, including at the sacrifice of their own lives.
. . .
In 2381, the Caeliar were forced to come out of their self-imposed exile upon being confronted with the truth that they were indirectly responsible for the creation of the Borg. In order to end the threat the Borg posed to the Galaxy, the Caeliar Gestalt deposed the Borg Queen and dissolved the Borg Collective, offering the trillions of newly freed drones the opportunity to join them in their great work.

Whilst the vast majority of former drones accepted, some chose not to do so. These former drones were granted their freedom and Caeliar Catoms replaced their Borg implants, restoring their original appearances and identities.

A side effect of the transformation of Borg Nanoprobes into Caeliar Catoms was that on planets which had formerly hosted Borg Technology, when the Catoms broke down it resulted in regeneration of the planets' biospheres.

Fucking ELVES! They invented literal elves with fucking MAGIC into Star Trek to "solve" the final arc of the Borg story.

No no, I want you all to see this insanity.

Catom

Catoms, or claytronic atoms, are also referred to as'programmable matter'. Catoms are described as being similar in nature to a nanomachine, but with greater power and complexity. While microscopic individually, they bond and work together on a larger scale. Catoms can change their density...

memory-beta.fandom.com

Spoiler: Literal Magic

Catoms, or claytronic atoms, are also referred to as 'programmable matter'. Catoms are described as being similar in nature to a nanomachine, but with greater power and complexity. While microscopic individually, they bond and work together on a larger scale. Catoms can change their density, energy levels, state of being, and other characteristics using thought alone.

I'm disappointed I've yet to find many complaints about this. Apparently most online are praising these books.

I'm also surprised moviebob hasn't created a Caeliar shrine in his basement.

The worst thing about fantasy and science fiction as genres is that they allow for the creation of entire civilizations and species of Mary Sues.

Some people might blame Tolkien for the precedent with the elves, but I would like to point out that The Silmarillion reveals that the elves' history is actually full of borderline Game of Thrones levels of messed up shit. They really only seem like a race of Sues in Lord of the Rings, where they're a lot more peripheral and are being viewed from an outside perspective. The elves are very... grand which makes them look impressive to other races, but they're not necessarily morally superior.

Of course like with lots of other things cribbed from Tolkien, other writers create a much more simplified, dumbed down version and we get shit like the elves in Eragon, or the Caeliar.

 

[AnOminous]

Are you saying that you think Andy Dick should have joined the main cast of Voyager in the tail end of Season 4? (In addition to, *NOT* replacing, Picardo.) Because I surprisingly don't hate that.

The problem with Andy Dick is he invariably utterly fucks up in such a horrible way that he has to be fired.

The two actors did play off against each other remarkably well. The only stuff I've liked Andy Dick in was Newsradio and that one episode of Voyager.

There were some pretty funny things on his actual self-named show, although that was 20 years ago before he was the totally ruined lolcow he is now.

 

[UnKillFill]

The problem with Andy Dick is he invariably utterly fucks up in such a horrible way that he has to be fired.



There were some pretty funny things on his actual self-named show, although that was 20 years ago before he was the totally ruined lolcow he is now.

True, but wasn't he relatively stable when he appeared on Voyager? (relatively being the key word.) He was on some sitcom I remember the folks watching back then.

 

[Flexo]

Just going to say: I really dislike Andy Dick. I'd rather have Seth McFarlane show up as an EMH mk # than him. (Seth was on Enterprise before anybody tries to remember, I'll save you the trouble.)

Actually it is funny that with the idea of the LMH, and after the success of Worf joining DS9, that the show runners didn't consider doing something similar and have "Bashir" join Voyager as an LMH sent to help them out once DS9 ended. Mostly because Alexander Siddig really matured as an actor by then and I think he would have played off well with Robert.

The worst thing about fantasy and science fiction as genres is that they allow for the creation of entire civilizations and species of Mary Sues.

Some people might blame Tolkien for the precedent with the elves, but I would like to point out that The Silmarillion reveals that the elves' history is actually full of borderline Game of Thrones levels of messed up shit. They really only seem like a race of Sues in Lord of the Rings, where they're a lot more peripheral and are being viewed from an outside perspective. The elves are very... grand which makes them look impressive to other races, but they're not necessarily morally superior.

Of course like with lots of other things cribbed from Tolkien, other writers create a much more simplified, dumbed down version and we get shit like the elves in Eragon, or the Caeliar.

Exactly. And as you read more it just gets so.... obvious how sue they are.

It also ends up becoming a dark joke. "Look! My idea to build the perfect civilization will totally work! Step one, we must obtain complete mental control over atoms themselves."

Ironically looking back, the closest Tolkien probably ever had to a sue race would be the Hobbits. But it's a sign of his skill as a writer that nobody ever notices it.

 

[AnOminous]

True, but wasn't he relatively stable when he appeared on Voyager? (relatively being the key word.) He was on some sitcom I remember the folks watching back then.

It was 1998, so probably. Wow.

 

[TaimuRadiu]

It was 1998, so probably. Wow.

In 1998 Phil Hartman's wife killed him and her in a murder-suicide widely blamed on body-fuck drugs that Dick supposedly introduced, or re-introduced her to.

Why won't Andy Dick die!?