Star Trek - Space: The Final Frontier

[UnKillFill]

Yeah, I guess Pulaski was technically a better doctor than Crusher was, but she was also an unrepentant cunt. I don't even really like Crusher all that much, but I still overall prefer her to Pulaski, because at least Crusher was never a cunt.

 

[BScCollateral]

I'm guessing since they wanted it to have its own mythos. That final season was insane way to reboot things.

Art never has anything to do with these decisions. Andromeda was a pastiche of various Roddenberry concepts to bring in Star Trek fans (wasn't the hero named Dylan Hunt, for the hero of Genesis II?), divorced from Star Trek due to rights issues.

Mike of RLM observed that Discovery has over 20 producer credits. I have no special knowledge, but I would bet a doughnut one or two actually work on the show, while the rest draw a salary and credit in return for not suing.

 

[ToroidalBoat]

Master of Orion 2

Also there's replicators and transporters in it, which are techs that appear fairly late in a game, kind of like how electronics appears late in a Civilization game. Also there's star bases that kind of look like Spacedock in Search For Spock.

(MOO2 also references Star Wars too, with "doom star" super spacecraft, and a "stellar converter" planet-smashing beam.)

 

[Captain Syrup]

Andromeda was a pastiche of various Roddenberry concepts to bring in Star Trek fans

Majel Roddenberry was attached, and Robert Hewitt-Wolfe was the showrunner.

Sorbo took over production and turned it into Hercules: The Legendary Space Journeys.

"Did I have a voice in it? Yeah, I had a voice in it, Dylan's also got to realize, 'You know what: I'll never see a million member worlds in my lifetime.' It took a thousand years to get it together in the first place, so you know what, he feels like he's accomplished that task of getting those first 50 worlds together, and now it's like, 'Let's move on. Let's have some fun... Let's throw in some Mel Brooks. Let's throw in some Airplane! stuff. I still love scenes that have really well-written dialogue, but this isn't The West Wing."

 

[ditto]

(MOO2 also references Star Wars too, with "doom star" super spacecraft, and a "stellar converter" planet-smashing beam.)

Sounds like an awesome game. Pity it's only for DOS.

 

[BScCollateral]

IIRC, Majel Roddenberry was attached, and Robert Hewitt-Wolfe was the showrunner.

The show that never was I'd like to see was DC Fontana's Starship. Sadly, aside from some background cameos, the "Star Trek by one of the best writers for Star Trek" didn't make it into production.

 

[Flexo]

The show that never was I'd like to see was DC Fontana's Starship. Sadly, aside from some background cameos, the "Star Trek by one of the best writers for Star Trek" didn't make it into production.

RHW left about midway through the second season. He left notes on what would have been. Don't know if it would have worked but darn it sounds ambitious and worth a try.

 

[Captain Syrup]

Speaking of David Lynch, as a kid I watched the old Dune movie from 1984 - and Motion Picture - and liked them, even if I couldn't really get what was going on.

My main sticking point is the ending. A monsoon appears for no reason. And you can tell that Lynch doesn't really 'get' the material, because the sandworms probably drowned.

If you're into 'visual' movies like Dark City, then it's definitely worth a look. It doesn't have a plot to speak of.

 

[Antarctic Hellbeast]

Art never has anything to do with these decisions. Andromeda was a pastiche of various Roddenberry concepts to bring in Star Trek fans (wasn't the hero named Dylan Hunt, for the hero of Genesis II?), divorced from Star Trek due to rights issues.

Mike of RLM observed that Discovery has over 20 producer credits. I have no special knowledge, but I would bet a doughnut one or two actually work on the show, while the rest draw a salary and credit in return for not suing.

Still funny how no series has even mentioned the andromedans yet they are still canon.

Also Discovery misses the whole point of the sexy badass women ( the actual Ships) being characters that need even more attention to detail and care than the entire cast on each star trek show. Even DS9 understood this and basically used kitbashes of the same ships and designs as TNG.

Still sad that the Titan is going to be wasted on a shitty rick and morty clone where it will likely be vaporized in a flippant insulting way while they shill even more Star trek online generic sci fi dildo ships where the borg look like some sort of fucking rebel ships from star wars past the forced prologue section on there and are locked behind a $20 a spin lootbox system that would bankrupt even DSP.



But dont worry Space Niggas with anime ships gonna find a new hood to pillage and loot, dat be "dizcoverinz eech ovthers an sheeit"

 

[Cyril Sneer]

Look the prequel trilogy is very poorly executed.

I think it's more accurate to say "poorly executed in places." It's not perfect by any means, but there's a lot of good in it, and it's nowhere near as terrible as RLM have tried to make out with their Plinkett hatchet-jobs.

I won't say it's all bad. SFDebris' making of video essays gave me some new appreciation for all the effort and aims of them, but it still doesn't change the many narrative flaws. (Like the first film having "we must get to coruscant" being the entire driving force of everything... for only the first half and then having a drastic swerve. It would work in a film serial - doesn't work in a movie.)

One argument that seems to have become a point of consensus in the SW thread is the PT would have worked better as a TV mini-series than a trilogy of feature films.

All of the black cats on TOS turned into women.

Makes one start wonder if there was a fetish someone was working out...

Wait a damn minute!
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Maybe Spot was another deep-cover Aegis agent like Isis...

Fake News was the word of 2017. The word of 2020 ought to be parasocial.

E-celebs connect with people in a way few people do. Biden doesn't have half of the reach that YT, Twitch, and Insta do. It's very common to see posts and comments like "thank you for helping me in dark times", implying that fans rely on influencers to maintain their mental health.

I'm talking more about people blindly accepting their social lives being curtailed, their business shuttered and their freedoms encroached upon by ever-more intrusive government overreach due to a virus that 99% of its victims survive. I worry that there will not be any end to this, short of violent uprising: governments, as a rule, are about as good at giving up temporary emergency powers as they are at relinquishing temporary emergency sources of revenue.

Harry Potter did a better job with rising fascism, which is a huge indictment of Star Wars.

Maybe in Bizarro World. I can see a lot of parallels between the fall of the Galactic Republic and rise of the Empire in our reality. Rowling's stuff is somewhat less...resonant.

Yeah, Bowling Alone was literally published in 2000. That's how long this issue of isolation has been discussed.

At the time, Putnam had identified multiculturalism as a major contributing factor to the development of the "bunker mentality" that was involved in the decline of social cohesion in the United States (much to his horror, as a right-thinking, Ivy League-educated liberal). One shudders to imagine how much worse things have gotten since then, what with accelerated third-world immigration, declining social mobility, 9/11 and the grinding futility of the resultant Forever Wars, the COVID "lockdowns," etc, etc.

But hey! At least we can consoom Kenner-style TNG action figures now:

Spoiler

View attachment 2081928

Man, they really dropped the ball on season 7. This and Sub Rosa broke me.

It gets better in Season 8.

I don't recall DS9 coming up in the old TNG movie Plinkett reviews (it's been ages since I watched them last), but Mike's mentioned watching DS9 again in the more recent TNG re:View videos. Seems like the absolute failures of STD and Picard have made him a bit more positive towards it, though I don't think he's ever stated outright hating the show. Maybe in a sense of "this ain't like my TOS," but I never got the sense he actively disliked it.

IIRC, he doesn't like how it presents Roddenberry's futurist utopianism in a more flawed and humanized light.

Art never has anything to do with these decisions. Andromeda was a pastiche of various Roddenberry concepts to bring in Star Trek fans (wasn't the hero named Dylan Hunt, for the hero of Genesis II?), divorced from Star Trek due to rights issues.

Roddenberry must have really loved that name (to be fair, it is a pretty cool name for a protagonist), because he used it again in the 1974 TV movie Planet Earth, which premiered just a year after Genesis II.

 

[Van Darkholme]

Still sad that the Titan is going to be wasted on a shitty rick and morty clone where it will likely be vaporized in a flippant insulting way while they shill even more Star trek online generic sci fi dildo ships where the borg look like some sort of fucking rebel ships from star wars past the forced prologue section on there and are locked behind a $20 a spin lootbox system that would bankrupt even DSP.

I gave up on STO when they released the NX Refit (which I really like) and it was about 100€ in Zen. Fuck that, I'm not spending that on a bunch of polygons.
Guess I will just keep my Arbiter class forever.

PS: Ground combat is still shit and I wish it wouldn't exist.

 

[L50LasPak]

It didn't escape my notice that Plinkett criticized the Dominion War, only to come around to DS9 once something darker came along. Such is the nature of gatekeeping.

Here's the thing though: the Dominion War battles are overwrought and pretty senseless. They all take place at point blank range instead of the more realistic distances that Star Trek at least used to imply, and they're pure eyecandy. Some of these are honestly some of the best space battles ever, I'm still very partial to War of the Warrior, but I also can't just stand around and pretend they don't drastically clash with the mostly realistic battles we saw in TOS.

Hell, that video where one of the production leads on Wrath of Khan was talking about how he disagreed with Nick Meyer wanting to do a dogfight in space, interspersed with Discovery clips just to show how far we've fallen, could easily be done with DS9 clips instead, beat for beat. There's just no way around it. I like DS9 as much as the next guy, but its objectively a departure from not just Star Trek's formula, but also its basic rules. If the characters had sucked, DS9 would have been just as terrible as Discovery.

In Master of Orion 2*, there's "space crystal" monsters that can attack spacecraft. There's also giant space amoebas that can feed on planets (at least turning them into "toxic" worlds).

*(space 4X game - "Civilization in space")

Funny you say that, the creators of Masters of Orion were eventually behind Star Trek: Birth of the Federation which is more or less Master of Orion with Star Trek races and technology. By all accounts its a pretty good game that has a huge fucking mod scene still to this day.

 

[Captain Syrup]

I think it's more accurate to say "poorly executed in places." It's not perfect by any means, but there's a lot of good in it,

I was actually being charitable when I said that. Not even the Carmina Burana music is tolerable.

 

[Antarctic Hellbeast]

I gave up on STO when they released the NX Refit (which I really like) and it was about 100€ in Zen. Fuck that, I'm not spending that on a bunch of polygons.
Guess I will just keep my Arbiter class forever.

They have an "Okay" Luna class model despite it never being an endgame ship apparently and not updated for about 10 years at this point. got my screenshots and quit within a week.

Shame its not Tier SXXSXXS34183642 whatever the fuck their P2W autistic "tier" system is.

Devs: "But hey, here's another dildo ship that doesnt belong in ST with all the current best stats in the game 200 Euros for a 3% chance at it!"

 

[RomanesEuntDomus]

I think it's more accurate to say "poorly executed in places."

The bad parts are so bad and the good parts so rare and far between, that the vast majority of movie goers and fans gave up on the prequels halfway through the trilogy. The movies just weren't particularly good and it didn't take Mike Stoklasa and Rich Evans for people to piece that together. Get over it. It's not the end of the world if you enjoy a goofy movie, just call it a guilty pleasure like anyone else who enjoys some random goofy movie.

 

[Van Darkholme]

They have an "Okay" Luna class model despite it never being an endgame ship apparently and not updated for about 10 years at this point. got my screenshots and quit within a week.

Shame its not Tier SXXSXXS34183642 whatever the fuck their P2W autistic "tier" system is.

Devs: "But hey, here's another dildo ship that doesnt belong in ST with all the current best stats in the game 200 Euros for a 3% chance at it!"

There are some other ships I really like (like the Akira or the Ambassador one you get for free) but they're all so low tier it's not worth using them for long as they lack weapon and station slots.
The cheeky fucks actually released a new version of the Ambassador a while ago (Neranda class if I remember correctly) but that also costs real money.

 

[Captain Syrup]

Here's the thing though: the Dominion War battles are overwrought and pretty senseless.

At least they don't outstay their welcome.

You also left out moments like "A Time to Stand", when the crew have a finite window to beam a bomb into a factory, or Odo hiding in an ice field, or the Orion nebula ambush, or the downfall of Red Squad... plenty of nail-biting moments.

 

[L50LasPak]

At least they don't outstay their welcome.

You also willfully left out moments like "A Time to Stand", when the crew have a finite window to beam a bomb into a factory, or Odo hiding in an ice field, or the Orion nebula ambush, or the downfall of Red Squad... plenty of nail-biting moments that are absent from DISCO, which is just pretty pictures with no stakes.

I was speaking about battles specifically though, and about their technical and visual accuracy. So yes I did leave those out. The problem with this point of view is that both of us see those moments for what they are, the great writing, the excellent score, the way the scenes are timed and shot, the performances from the actors, etc. But the dumbing down takes its toll as a newcomer to the franchise is probably just going to see "cool battle, this is what they want more of right?" and then its suddenly a lot easier to figure out why Discovery is all flashy eyecandy.

Nobody (neither me or, I think, RLM) is denying the good writing Deep Space Nine had. Its that approach of turning Star Trek into a flashy space opera with swarms of fighters and turrets spewing out projectiles every which way and all of the other crazy stuff we saw on the screen that fundamentally clashes with TOS and TNG's approaches to space combat.

 

[Cyril Sneer]

Here's the thing though: the Dominion War battles are overwrought and pretty senseless. They all take place at point blank range instead of the more realistic distances that Star Trek at least used to imply, and they're pure eyecandy. Some of these are honestly some of the best space battles ever, I'm still very partial to War of the Warrior, but I also can't just stand around and pretend they don't drastically clash with the mostly realistic battles we saw in TOS.

I can't say that that really bothers me. Trek has always been something of a compromise between a speculative idea of what passed at the time for semi-plausible future technologies and more romantic influences like "wagon-trains to the stars" or WWII submarine combat.

I was actually being charitable when I said that. Not even the Carmina Burana music is tolerable.

You have my pity.

The bad parts are so bad and the good parts so rare and far between, that the vast majority of movie goers and fans gave up on the prequels halfway through the trilogy. The movies just weren't particularly good and it didn't take Mike Stoklasa and Rich Evans for people to piece that together.

I dunno, I seem to recall that audience reactions at the time were fairly positive, and this "black legend" of the unwatchable Prequels only eventually settled in as a result of concerted media campaigning (hence RLM getting signal-boosted so widely as the "definitive" take on the PT). I can recall pretty clearly that it was an exciting, positive time to be a young Star Wars fan, with all sorts of interesting new books, comics, animations, games and toys constantly hitting store shelves, and lively discussions about the same on the fan-forums.

Get over it. It's not the end of the world if you enjoy a goofy movie, just call it a guilty pleasure like anyone else who enjoys some random goofy movie.

You get over it. It's not the end of the world if I disagree with you on this issue, and you're certainly not going to change my mind by heckling me.

 

[Captain Syrup]

It was an exciting, positive time to be a young Star Wars fan, with all sorts of interesting new books, comics, animations, games and toys constantly hitting store shelves, and lively discussions about the same on the fan-forums.

The height of Star Wars is the Special Editions hitting theaters.