Star Trek - Space: The Final Frontier

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ToroidalBoat said:
(oh yeah and that lady is fat)
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UnKillShredDur said:
They'd obviously pretend like the bell riots were and always have been about race, not class.
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There is quite literally no left anymore. Only libs!
 
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Someone mentioned this awhile ago I think but I gave Living Witness a rewatch recently because I guess its just on my mind lately. Its uncanny that despite how cartoonish and heavy-handed that episode turned out, that it managed one really ominous line:

"Please, this isn't about race!"
"Its always about race."

The whole episode is very cartoonish with the evil Voyager crew, and likewise equally cartoonish when the Doctor's program shows Voyager in an extremely positive light, to the extent that I think it was a deliberate choice. On the first viewing the above line comes off as equally cartoonish; it sounds like something out of a South Park sketch honestly, but good lord is it right on the nose these days. Its like Tim Russ tried to warn us.

The chick playing the race-obessed alien bitch also did a really good job acting that scene out. That's literally the only scene she's in, and Russ resisted making her a recurring villain throughout the episode, which I think makes the character better. It elevates the whole episode quite a bit.
 
L50LasPak said:
Someone mentioned this awhile ago I think but I gave Living Witness a rewatch recently because I guess its just on my mind lately.
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The twist with the brown aliens oppressing the white ones was unexpected. It's not really about race at all, it's about both sides using history as a pretext for stripping the others' rights away. Cycle of violence and whatnot. The wounds won't heal because it's politically expedient not to.

Another thing to note: The non-whites kind of resemble Aboriginal people.
 
JamesFargo said:
The twist with the brown aliens oppressing the white ones was unexpected. It's not really about race at all, it's about both sides using history as a pretext for stripping the others' rights away. Cycle of violence and whatnot. The wounds won't heal because it's politically expedient not to.

Another thing to note: The non-whites kind of resemble Aboriginal people.
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The optimal way to tell this story would be to have the aliens not resemble human ethnicities at all, perhaps make them all blue or something, but then that would instantly clue in the viewer to the twist that the oppressed aliens are just as shitty as their oppressors. Also the way the Vaskan ambassador treated the Kyrians with total derision even in the good simulation gives me the impression that both races were underhanded and imperialistic long before the conflict got started.

Its a good twist because we're not left sympathizing in particular with either race at the end, since it seems like they're both selfish assholes who will lie endlessly to get one up on each other.

I've daydreamed about changing the ending, where the final simulation actually turns out to be run by a third race of aliens who conquered the first two due to their internice wars making them weak to outside interference.

Alternatively maybe have the third race be neutral archeologists, who pieced together the story after both the Vaskans and Kyrians wiped each other out in some kind of apocalyptic war. Frame it as a story of how hatred and pride is a game nobody ultimately wins at.

The optimistic ending does leave a hint that maybe we're still seeing a distorted narrative though, now through the eyes of a civilization that has eliminated its racial conflict and sees their ancestors as two-dimensional bigots instead of more complicated people with different motivations.
 
Flexo said:
We already had that in a TOS episode. Voyager taking a new approach to look at historical revisionism and the search for truth made it fresh and different.
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When you put it that way it becomes kind of interesting that the old TOS narratives about the destruction of society from events like that seem to ring truer today than the happy ending that Living Witness had. You could almost put Let That Be Your Last Battlefield and Living Witness right next to each other and just label one "The Sixties" and the other "The Ninties".
 
Why are they so obsessed with making prequels to TOS? Wouldn't working around TNG would have been more sensible for STD as a setting?
If they are so afraid of the 25th century just make a show around Enterprise B or C.
 
Their OC-do-not-steals need to be the forerunners and pioneers. Also I guess there's something about taking the franchise by the horns, right after the Bad Reboot Robot movie came out. JJ owns that shitty nuTrek thing, they don't spin off TNG, they continue where JJ left off.
Star Trek Picard was just a project they did after they realized that fans really don't like that prequel shit and that ST's fan approval is digging into bedrock. So they wanted to appeal to the old fans by bringing geriatric old Mr. Stewart back into the fray and they all shook hands and decided to do things in STP that fucked up the franchise even more.
 
JamesFargo said:
Because that's the one folks recognize, even if they never watched Star Trek. They mined TNG for everything it's worth. The actors aged out of the roles, and we've exhausted the TNG-type stories that can be told.

The real question is why we're so hell-bent on bringing Star Trek back at all; although Viacom keeps posting huge losses, so Star Trek is acting as a life preserver. That's my guess.
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Those are good points. Of course it's really ironic that a show about progress and going to no man has gone before got into a circle of spinoffs and prequels.
The way the industry handled Star Trek and Star Wars were the last straw for me. You could get good talent working for free for those, yet they end up delegating it to hacks without any passion or care.

Viacom seems to fail to understand how the brand and it's audience works. ST will never be Star Wars. Sure they could catch the normalfags a few time with the JJ action movies, but those had zero cultural impact. They should just try to understand how the property worked in the first place and how the audience works as well. Wouldn't that be their job?

RomanesEuntDomus said:
Their OC-do-not-steals need to be the forerunners and pioneers. Also I guess there's something about taking the franchise by the horns, right after the Bad Reboot Robot movie came out. JJ owns that shitty nuTrek thing, they don't spin off TNG, they continue where JJ left off.
Star Trek Picard was just a project they did after they realized that fans really don't like that prequel shit and that ST's fan approval is digging into bedrock. So they wanted to appeal to the old fans by bringing geriatric old Mr. Stewart back into the fray and they all shook hands and decided to do things in STP that fucked up the franchise even more.
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Is the copyright status of Star Trek is still that horrible mess it was a couple of years ago?
 
JamesFargo said:
And Mass Effect. Can't forget that.

It reminds me of an old newspaper cartoon (forget which one), where the exec looks at Titanic's numbers and yells, "Shipwrecks! That's the ticket, baby! Make more movies about shipwrecks!"
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Oh. Star Trek Pickard surely studied in the dumb man's understanding of why HBO shows are popular class. It's violent and cynical. Ignore the fact that HBO usually had good writing and character in addition to those. It's like Lower Decks feel like the creator hated Star Trek and had to superficially rip off Rick and Morty at the same time...

I am glad Gene Roddenberry never got to see the latest entries. Sure the guy hated fun, but he had a good sense of idealism that helped balance out the adventure.
 
How long has this been floating around and why haven't I seen it before?

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BlamoPlasmo said:
Oh. Star Trek Pickard surely studied in the dumb man's understanding of why HBO shows are popular class.
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Over twenty Producers, and no oversight at all. What was Chabon's job supposed to be? He'd go on Instagram and mouth off after every episode.

The people who worked on Trek before walked away from the pre-production of STD, before the first trailer even dropped. So CBS is left with exactly what they deserve: people who never say "no" to executive demands.
 
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JamesFargo said:
The real question is why we're so hell-bent on bringing Star Trek back at all; although Viacom keeps posting huge losses, so Star Trek is acting as a life preserver. That's my guess.
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They aren't just bringing back ST. There are so many reboots and remakes nowadays. I mentioned this in another thread. They want to rewrite history and art and are in a Taliban-like mission to destroy and rebuild most franchises with their new perspectives. Imagine the typical fangirl who thinks Harry Potter would be better if she was Harry's girlfriend? Same but in steroids now.
 
Tasty Tatty said:
They aren't just bringing back ST. There are so many reboots and remakes nowadays. I mentioned this in another thread. They want to rewrite history and art and are in a Taliban-like mission to destroy and rebuild most franchises with their new perspectives.
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I've seen it compared with Wal-Mart. Your one stop shop for genre TV.

LD for the kiddies, Fenris Rangers for revenge dramas, Strange New Worlds for old-timers, Disco for prime time soaps. And so on.
 
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