Star Trek - Space: The Final Frontier

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Travoltron said:
I guess I can't prove a negative, and the further back before I was born, the less familiar I am with those TV shows. It seems like people only went to church or prayed in "historical" shows like Little House in the Prairie. And I suppose TV shows set in the Bible Belt like Andy Griffith had churches as a cultural hub.

I remember during my time, people were in a moral panic over The Simpsons, including my grandparents and my aunt. And my mom pointed out, "They're the only family on TV that goes to church."
And it was true at that time. 80s sitcoms were generally safe, bland, inoffensive, and child friendly. It was the Moral Majority era, yet everyone was irreligious on TV. But political correctness had already started to be a thing at that time, so that may explain it.
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Yeah, that's why I was asking you like what time and selection you were thinking of. In this instance you can prove a negative by naming a show. Like I'm pretty sure Full House never attended church, but Family Matters did and we could probably do searches of episode descriptions to find out. If there was an episode, it was probably around Christmas where storylines like "a toy drive" or "staring in the nativity play" were always popular staples.

Now some of this is also admittedly budget issues. It costs the same to send the Simpsons to church as it does to send them to Japan. That's often why you have animated series touching on religion more overtly (King of the Hill had several episodes involving the church). Whereas if you were doing something live action, that means you'd have to build a new set. If you're sharp enough, you can sometimes recognize when the same interior set is being "repurposed" to be different places, like the church set one episode and maybe a bar in another. (AFAIR, Andy Griffith never showed the outside of the town church but its set looked suspiciously similar to the town hall set.)

And of course even in the more "religious" shows, they don't visit the church every week. You might only get a visit every other season or so depending - so some shows may have never had a visit to the house of God just because they weren't on air enough.

Anyway you're definitely right that it also depends on the era. The 80s and 90s were definitely a time of religious fading in pop culture where church and Christianity references were not to be taken for granted to the extent they were in older shows when religion ran much deeper in American soil.

EDIT: for an example, here's a clip from Everybody Hates Chris - original airdate of this episode was 2008.

AnOminous said:
Most episodes were by different writers who were given pretty broad latitude in their scripts.
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That is also very true, though I had heard that Gene liked to mess with every script to be sure he had his "fingerprints" on everything. Word is when Walter Koenig turned in his script for the Trek animated series Gene kept sending it back for rewrites until the thing was unrecognizable. (and gave us the Infinite Vulcan) A buddy of mine got to ask Walter at a con once what his original draft was. That was entertaining.
 
Flexo said:
That is also very true, though I had heard that Gene liked to mess with every script to be sure he had his "fingerprints" on everything. Word is when Walter Koenig turned in his script for the Trek animated series Gene kept sending it back for rewrites until the thing was unrecognizable. (and gave us the Infinite Vulcan) A buddy of mine got to ask Walter at a con once what his original draft was. That was entertaining.
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This is why Harlan Ellison threw a gigantic hissy-fit (yes his trademark behavior) about City on the Edge of Forever. He claimed his script was better than what was aired. However, I will argue he was vindicated by the fact that his ORIGINAL script won the Writers Guild of America Award for Best Episodic Drama on Television.

The actual episode won a Hugo. I think we all know how much Hugos mean now. I think they should change the name of the Hugos. Not because Hugo Gernsback is "problematic," but because it is a shame and a disgrace to his name to continue such a display of avarice and nepotism in his name.

Anyway doing just that (putting his cum-covered fingerprints all over it) is why Harlan absolutely went apefuck on Star Trek after that.

It was still better than the absolute garbage that nobody will ever remember that is currently being put out under the brand name.
 
Also, let's remember that between the series, Roddenberry's chief income came from lectures to edgy college students. I'm pretty confident that made him skew to the edgy atheist.
 
and don't forget Roddenberry wasn't the only head of TOS
Gene Coon and the other guy had pretty big input at the time from what I've seen, they just didn't care about making their lives being THE LEGENDARY STAR TREK GUY like Gene R
there was an interoffice memo remember seeing from a Hollywood auction and the other two were grousing about the story that Gene R had picked up and how the script is shit as-is and will need so much work etc, and their tone clearly sounded like "welp, gotta go tard wrangle him back to his casting couch so he's not in the way again"
 
Kerr Avon said:
View attachment 5371504

Trannies advocating for more religious rep in star trek

:story: :story: :story:
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These retards are completely missing the point of Star Trek. I know, that's not new, it has been like that since Kurtzman took over (remember that muslim woman who was cosplaying as Geordi with a hijab?).
The reason why non-Earth people have religions is because it's easier to create allegories without antagonizing your audience.

These two people will never be Star Trek fans and they will never be a woman.
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IDanceonTrannyGraves said:
Any examples?
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Off the top of my head, there a scene where they put lens flares on absolutely everything, while parodying the introduction of the reboot movie enterprise (and also the original refit ent from TMP). There are pretty regular throw-away jokes about nu trek and the Abrams films, but it's as much because there are throw-away lines about everything in Trek than any criticism of kurtzman trek in particular. It's a self-aware parody of its own history (though it's weirdly sincere in its love for the core principles of Trek, with all the main cast ultimately being federation idealists of one form or another), so there are going to be lots of parodies of past trek shows and moments. Circling around DS9 and pretending to admire the pylons until they can figure out how to explain something, for example. The difference, IMO, is the way they do it. The harking back to old trek is usually more sincere and loving than the jokes about kurtzman trek, which tend to be highlighting flaws or contradictions with older trek.

Its obviously written by people who appreciate Star Trek for what it was, even if their story pitches are all filtered through post-millennial post-structuralists who think rick and morty is high art. Where most of nu Trek feels like a bad copy of Star Wars (including STN, even though it was a marked improvement compared to disco and picard), Lower Decks at least feels trek-like, so most of its humour draws from that foundation, rather than from a foundation of despising everything about trek, which is itse.f a repudiation of everything kurtzman wanted to do. It probably helps that it's set just a few years after the TNG era, so a lot of the aesthetics are still firmly embedded, which enforces a more familiar tone. They even get around the whole constantly changing uniform thing by having different parts of the fleet wearing different "era" uniforms. It's never explicitely explained, but it seems the inference you're supposed to draw is that the uniforms vary depending on the status and purpose of a ship or facility with the fleet. It's actually kind of nifty.

But yeah, it makes fun of kurtzman trek, a lot. It's not as good as the best of the TNG era, but neither is it as bad as the worst. And at least it's not discovery.
 
newuser131 said:
but look at what we have now.

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Michael is not an unattractive woman. She has a bit of a weird face, but weird faces can be memorable. Does she look bad here?

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I don't think so. And the uniform resembles the one from the TOS movies that wasn't exactly very fitting.

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And definitely look way more professional than the ones from the 60s, nostalgia and sex-appeal factors aside. Also, by the time women were wearing these uniforms, Star Trek was very much an established brand.

The problem with Michael is Michael. For starters, she's named Michael, for God's sake. She could be naked and people still wouldn't watch this mess of a show. Tilly... yeah... I can't even with that.
 
I've been rewatching DS9 - very good shit, and gotten to when Sisko goes after Eddington, and gasses an entire planet of human colonists to flush him out.
The Marquis conflict in Trek was handled very poorly and seems to have been written by people that don't know how people work. Everyone keeps bringing up how the Marquis colonists can simply move somewhere else, as though that's a counter argument to the fact that the Feds literally sold their homes out from under them to the fucking Cardassians. There's no conflict in the story because the Marquis are 100% in the right, and the Federation are acting like utter spastics the entire time. The feds could have rolled over the Cardassians, and the only reason that the Marquis even exist is because the Federation is a bunch of lions led by sheep.
 
Johan Schmidt said:
I've been rewatching DS9 - very good shit, and gotten to when Sisko goes after Eddington, and gasses an entire planet of human colonists to flush him out.
The Marquis conflict in Trek was handled very poorly and seems to have been written by people that don't know how people work. Everyone keeps bringing up how the Marquis colonists can simply move somewhere else, as though that's a counter argument to the fact that the Feds literally sold their homes out from under them to the fucking Cardassians. There's no conflict in the story because the Marquis are 100% in the right, and the Federation are acting like utter spastics the entire time. The feds could have rolled over the Cardassians, and the only reason that the Marquis even exist is because the Federation is a bunch of lions led by sheep.
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I'm pretty sure I pointed this out earlier, but Federation colonization policy has always been fucked since The Ensigns of Command, the one where Data shot the aqueduct to make the colonists leave the planet to preserve a treaty with the Shelliak Corporate. The Feds have a passive aggressive campaign to encourage Right-wing and Libertarian colonists to leave Earth and the Core Worlds to found Wildcat colonies in an extremely haphazard manner, leading to all kinds of border disputes with the alien races like the Gorn, the Tzenkethi, the Talarians, the Tholians, the Cardassians, and the Shelliak. Because Starfleet cannot be everywhere at once ("We're the only ship in range"), they have to sign really stupid treaties that force colonists to leave. The Maquis happen to be a group of colonists that didn't follow the typical Federation script and exposed just how useless and careless the Federation are to their own citizens, especially to the Navajo. Unlike the 23th century, the Federation can't blame acts of god like the Doomsday Machine or plague for the destruction of entire colonies.
 
Molly White's Breast Milk said:
It's the second best Kurtzman Trek show. But that's like saying being forced to suck off a nigger is better than getting raped by a nigger. Jeffrey Combs was in the last episode, so there's that.
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Kurtzman has next to no involvement in the production. I personally rank it the best of the kurtzman era shows, not least because it sticks to established trek lore and aesthetics for the most part. No black-floored, neon-lit sets and no over-done redesigns of classic ships. Yes, it's a comedy and its so overgrown with memberberries that you could make cheap wine for pennies, but it's still comfy.

Drag-on Knight 91873 said:
the Federation can't blame acts of god like the Doomsday Machine or plague for the destruction of entire colonies.
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Or flying pancakes.
 
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