Star Trek - Space: The Final Frontier

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ToroidalBoat said:
The Borg seem to be very "progressive" to Clown World.

They're lacking sexes "genders", always connected to others like "Zoomers" on "social media", hiveminded, and sorta living in pods.
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Am glad the "progressives" aren't aware of Star Trek Online and its handling of the borg. Which are the Liberated Borg and the Borg Cooperative, both of which are borg freed and unplugged from the Collective. Also pre-STD Seven of Nine was Star Trek's version of Stargate SG-1's Teal's and his personal quest to free all Jaffa. With Seven's own personal quest to free the Borg from the Collective.
 
Drag-on Knight 91873 said:
The thing is, they're both the same thing because of Alex Kurtzman and Bad Robot.
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I see your point, but I'd rather have a 'different' cast and take on the Original Series where, let's be honest:
  • Star Trek 2009 was the jumping pad for a lot of new Trekkies, I'm not ashamed to admit that, it was a fun movie back then. Rewatched it recently and it still kinda holds up.
  • Into Darkness is unnecessarily bad, they could've just scrapped the whole Khan idea for the villain or have a different version of Khan, someone more akin to Bashir, brain over muscle, instead of making Cumberbatch the strong superhuman who lifts up Klingon and throws people around. Most important, Spock punching people, who the fuck thought that was a good idea, as well as the whole "let's flip the roles on Kirk sacrificing himself to save the Enterprise and have Spock yell KHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAN!".
  • Beyond is fine, enjoyable, but they could trim off maybe 10 minutes out of the ending battle, let it end quick without needless punchy-punchy vs Idris Elba and the movie gets better.
I think I watched the first two episodes of Discovery, and I quit halfway through the second one. As soon as I heard that Michael Burnham was supposed to be Spock's sister, and she Vulcan nerve pinched Michelle Yeoh I stopped.
 
So I very recently (within the past week) had the chance to binge watch all of "Lower Decks." Up to wherever it currently is now.
I'm not gonna say it was complete trash, because it wasn't. But I do know exactly why I don't like it.

Surprisingly it wasn't even the shitty Mariner Sue (that name had to be intentional, especially combined with how shitty she acts.) that did it for me.
Honestly, it was all of the little stupid winks to the camera, I didn't make a list, but I really should have. It happened constantly where they'd name drop previous episode titles and treat them as if they were common knowledge when there is no way in hell that it would be. ("He got Tuvixed" should not be something that a bunch of fucking ensigns can just look up on a pad. Janeway committed murder and that episode even explicitly says that. That shit would have been super classified.) I get what they were trying to do, and it even worked sometimes. They'd randomly make explanations for previous "plot holes" but at the end of the day it wasn't worth it.

Also, because of the same circumstances, I was able to watch Picard Season 3 because I heard it was good. (I still have not and will not watch the other 2 seasons) It was acceptable.
 
UnKillShredDur said:
So I very recently (within the past week) had the chance to binge watch all of "Lower Decks." Up to wherever it currently is now.
I'm not gonna say it was complete trash, because it wasn't. But I do know exactly why I don't like it.

Surprisingly it wasn't even the shitty Mariner Sue (that name had to be intentional, especially combined with how shitty she acts.) that did it for me.
Honestly, it was all of the little stupid winks to the camera, I didn't make a list, but I really should have. It happened constantly where they'd name drop previous episode titles and treat them as if they were common knowledge when there is no way in hell that it would be. ("He got Tuvixed" should not be something that a bunch of fucking ensigns can just look up on a pad. Janeway committed murder and that episode even explicitly says that. That shit would have been super classified.) I get what they were trying to do, and it even worked sometimes. They'd randomly make explanations for previous "plot holes" but at the end of the day it wasn't worth it.

Also, because of the same circumstances, I was able to watch Picard Season 3 because I heard it was good. (I still have not and will not watch the other 2 seasons) It was acceptable.
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I think their best joke is in Season 1, where they talk about The Most Important Man in Starfleet.
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Miles O'Brien.

I did like when they first arrive at Deep Space 9, with the slow pan of the pylons, and the music starts playing, and they keep going and going, and when Shax meets Kira is the most Bajoran meeting ever.
 
Burt Ryan said:
I think their best joke is in Season 1, where they talk about The Most Important Man in Starfleet.
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Miles O'Brien.
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Ok, that's fair.

And accurate if you start to think about all the Federation-saving events he was involved with and critical in.
 
snw had potential. it was episodic (a refreshing change of pace from the season long story arcs of std and picard). has a good cast (anson mount is a stellar as chris pike). the positive i have to say about kurtzman era trek is the special effects are better than the previous trek (this is probably due to advancements in cgi. had tos, tng, ds9, voy, or ent been green lit today, we would see the same thing). with the few episodes i have seen of snw, it was hit and miss. my issues with snw is summed up in criticisms from rlm and popcast unleased.
  1. the hipster dialogue. paraphrasing mike for rlm, the cast talks like children. if you watch picard s3, specifically the dialogue, and compare it to snw s2, you can compare how adults talking to one another vs teenagers talking to one another. i am not a fan of this quippy, joss whedon dialogue. maybe one of the main characters does this and sparingly, but most of the cast does this. it gets on my nerves. do current year people talk like this? the closest to conversation that sounds like this in a work place environment, that i can think of, is a tech office in palo alto. and people who talk like that are the hr or non tech admins.
  2. disrespecting rank. paraphrasing the popcast, the crew talks to each other like they are all friends. in the military, being friends with each other, after your shift, is fine, but, even then, command rank officers keep an arms distance from their subordinates. this maintains discipline and respect for the rank. other star trek shows understood this concept (even the writers who didn't serve in the military understood this). why does the snw writers think this fraternizing is acceptable in starfleet, which as based on the us navy.
i understand this criticism is personal preference and there isn't anything technically wrong with the story. the acting is fine. the actors are given a script and they work within it and the actors all do a good job in acting. the directing is fine, it is paced well. it is the writing i have a problem with. maybe if the show runners let the guy who wrote picard s3 or being back ronald d moore, swn can get better.

Burt Ryan said:
Also, your last sentence is mostly a thing regarding Discovery, since Strange New Worlds has better looking actresses (not writing, didn't bother with finishing season 2)
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i agree, but i also think this is an example of attractive but not sexy. the only two exceptions of una and nurse chapel.

with una and nurse chapel, they are played by rebecca romijn and jess bush, respectively. both were models turned actresses. they know how to be both attractive and sexy.

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the other actresses are attractive but are not sexy, on the show.

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the purpose of this photo gallery is not to thirst post but to prove a point. it is to illustrate that these actresses are attractive and sexy irl but the showrunners are not letting it shine through into the show. the only one that is allowed to be sexy is nurse chapel. she is the only character that wears a tight one piece uniform that hugs her body. the showrunners even made rebecca romijn where the jacket uniform instead of the regular uniform to hide her boobs.

i will admit there is a line between on-screen sexy women and pervert shots. there is that infamous tng scene where troi and crusher wearing 80s yoga attire and were doing screeches in front of the mirror. that when on too long. 7 of 9's uniform was a bit over the top. but, then again, jeri ryan's t&a saved voyager from cancelation. and 7 of 9 was a overall interesting character and a great addition to the star trek universe.

i think the down play of female sexuality is by design from the showrunners. swn's main cast is majority female (pike, spock and m'benga are the only men). the show can't have all women be sexy. with that being said, i think sexy women is the least of these female characters problems.
  • i understand the la'an character arc. she is uptight due to her childhood but will "let her hair down" once she "let go of her past" (see snw s1 e10, in an alternate future where she hugs pike). i like character arc and i have to give the showrunners credit for this one. but why make her a relative of khan? her character works without the khan baggage.
  • ortegas is this hotshot pilot with a devil may care attitude. ok, but too one note for me. i thought the show runners would make the ortegas character more like starbuck from the 2000s battlestar galactic.
  • they have an asian actress playing the sulu role in the ops station next to ortegas. i looked it up, she is not a part of the main cast but is always in the main cast shot. she is basically an extra. why is she in all of the main camera shots with the cast?
  • my pet peeve with nurse chapel is that she is more stoic than spock and teaching him lessons about being a better person. she is too op for me. and the logic of her op is dependent on the plot. she is smart enough to get into the vulcan science academy, only to be rejected because she is a human, but is still a nurse? why does she just became a doctor?
  • una being an augment doesn't bother me. she is probably the only character that really isn't too far from the tos version of the character. her character is her carrier in starfleet. is that all she is? they tried to write up her character in the first two episodes of snw but it did not establish new ground or anything interesting. she just needs to have a better character arc.
  • the one female character i don't get on this show is uhura. i understand the show runners want all the tos character to cameo in the show to help with the nostalgia (we are missing bones, sulu and chekov), but her character doesn't fit. she is written as a starfleet cadet trying to find her way in the galaxy but they give her the tos roll she originally plays. she is a cadet, this assignment is basically an internship, why is she given a senior staff roll? why is she not working under the enterprise lead communication officer? this is the abrams nonsense of putting cadet kirk in the captain's chair at the end of star trek 2009. in s2 e1, she reprimands an engineer who is upgrading ships systems. she is still a cadet and the engineer is an officer, she should be the one who gets reprimanded for trying to stop him. this is a mess.
 

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newuser131 said:
ortegas is this hotshot pilot with a devil may care attitude. ok, but too one note for me. i thought the show runners would make the ortegas character more like starbuck from the 2000s battlestar galactic.
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The friend I watched season 1 and part of season 2 with (before I got bored of it), was kinda looking forward to an Ortegas centric episode, but then in S2E4 they had her piloting like a hotshot (something very akin to Starbuck from BSG, yes) but that was it.

Also, regarding characters attractiveness, it's very subjective, but the cast of SNW is "very cute", atleast compared to whatever Discovery tried to go for, with Michael Burnham, Tilly and whoever else was on that ship. I think the only one from Discovery that kinda peaked my interest was the helmsman Keyla Detmer, but apparently she isn't even main cast so...

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TVBForever said:
Most of any Trek Abrams onward is a complete mess
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Ninety percent of everything is crap. We got TOS, the six movies, TNG, and DS9.* And a few novels and games from talented writers who grokked Star Trek and made it work in those formats. That's a really good run. Better than we could have hoped for. I don't worry about what they do with the brand now.

* Maybe I should include Enterprise season 4, less the beginning and end.
 
newuser131 said:
snw had potential.
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I liked roughly half the SNW episodes and would put them on par with the half of the Orville episodes that I enjoyed as well as the first JJTrek movie from 2009. It's not Star Trek, but something else, something derivitive and referential and probably appropriate for the times in which we find ourselves. If the purpose of all of these was to make me feel a kind of way over politics, of which mine are quite heinously right-wing, they failed. I generally do not regret pirating their shows or the time I spent viewing them.

One exception I would make is for Star Trek Picard, the first two seasons of which succeeded in frustrating my viewing of TNG for the time being, but no permanent harm done. Unlike Star Wars, nuTrek is so thoroughly distinct that I can't be bothered to form lasting associations. There is a scene in SNW S2 where their "Kirk", "Spock" and "Uhura" meet together for the first time. It did not occur to me while watching that these were the characters from TOS. I mean, I knew, but they had become their own characters on whatever Trek-like show SNW is. And that was fine. I poured a drink and congratulated myself.

I think this mild preciousness towards original (actual) Star Trek and a conscious refusal for the twain to meet is partly why I remain hostile towards nuTrek that tries to "respect the fans". Do not want their respect. So, I'm not afraid to admit that I really never gave Picard S3 "a chance" and have not and will not give the parody cartoon Lower Decks "a chance". My hostility also stems in part, of course, because I think they're generally shit and the people involved with them are cancer.
 
Oy vey they got rid of money and high-interest loans! Gold is literally worthless?

I guess WWIII really will be anodda shoah! Has there ever been a Jewish sounding last name for a Trek character?
 
NSA said:
Oy vey they got rid of money and high-interest loans! Gold is literally worthless?

I guess WWIII really will be anodda shoah! Has there ever been a Jewish sounding last name for a Trek character?
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the Starfleet Corps of Engineers captain is Jewish and his wife is a rabbi
 
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