Star Trek - Space: The Final Frontier

[The Gene Genie]

I'm still trying to figure out why they thought Section 31 was a good idea. When IGN (of all places) is giving your shit at 2, it's time to stop.

Kurtzman begged and pleaded with CBS. He's been trying to force this meme for years. I guess they finally threw him a bone with this. He originally wanted a whole series.

 

[INDEED]

I'm still trying to figure out why they thought Section 31 was a good idea. When IGN (of all places) is giving your shit at 2, it's time to stop.

Grimdark space CIA is the producers thinly-disguised power fetish.

 

[Mussolini’s Merkin]

Kurtzman begged and pleaded with CBS. He's been trying to force this meme for years. I guess they finally threw him a bone with this. He originally wanted a whole series.

Does this mean that Kutzman might finally be getting the axe (unless he already has been and I missed it)? It's reviewing terribly even with the usual slop connoisseurs.

 

[The Gene Genie]

Does this mean that Kutzman might finally be getting the axe (unless he already has been and I missed it)? It's reviewing terribly even with the usual slop connoisseurs.

Hard to say. On one hand he managed to survive Discovery when he should’ve been sacked, but I think the patience of Paramount will be tested by this since it’s not just flopping with the fans but critically as well.

Frankly I suspect not, since he’s been in charge of the direction for almost twenty years now. The only way I see him getting axed is if someone at Paramount just really doesn’t like the shit he’s making and they want to pull the plug.

If that happens I hope they make a short where Q snaps everything related to Discovery, Strange New Worlds, Picard, and Lower Decks into non-existence and we finally get a proper Star Trek show. One can dream.

 

[Sweeter and Savoury]

I know we, well I was, talking about TMP and how it effected the original generation of Trekkie's

This Jew Tuber does a pretty decent job of giving it a run down.

oh yah, I am loving the fuck out of Section 31 absolutely positively bombing like nothing before it. Even STD had better ratings. Hopefully this is the end of that abomination known as Putzman Trek.

 

[Iron Jaguar]

Help me out, geeks: I'm sure there's a scene in one of the Star Trek films where a Klingon is describing Kirk. It goes something like, "He's brash, arrogant and has a God Complex. - You can't help but admire the man!"
I can't find it anywhere.
Am I having a Mandala Effect moment? Or did this really happen?

Also: Why does Hollywood insist on forcing Michelle Yeoh onto us? She's ugly. No-one wants to see her.

 

[Miller]

Nitpicking Nerd's review of the awful Section 31 movie is out:

This is apparently a Vulcan robot piloted by a small female alien.

and the woman on the right is Rachel Garrett. I'm not kidding...

 

[Overly Serious]

I'm still trying to figure out why they thought Section 31 was a good idea. When IGN (of all places) is giving your shit at 2, it's time to stop.

I thought the only reason IGN gave anybody a bad review was if their cheque bounced. Or maybe they have to toss in the odd genuine review to keep credibilty.

Who am I kidding? They have no credibility. The cheque bounced!

 

[TaimuRadiu]

Help me out, geeks: I'm sure there's a scene in one of the Star Trek films where a Klingon is describing Kirk. It goes something like, "He's brash, arrogant and has a God Complex. - You can't help but admire the man!"
I can't find it anywhere.
Am I having a Mandala Effect moment? Or did this really happen?

Also: Why does Hollywood insist on forcing Michelle Yeoh onto us? She's ugly. No-one wants to see her.

This sounds like a line from Star Trek 3.

Michelle Yeoh is past 60 and she's a fantastic action star. I think Critical Drinker said about the S31 movie something like "She's playing it like she's in an over the top parody, and maybe she is." As it is in the 90s I thought """Section 31""" was just the effort of one overzealous Federationer. It's not like the Star Trek franchise had any lack of people like him. (I also don't consider DS9 to be actual Star Trek and I really don't like the whole Dominion War plot, but whatever. There are some fantastic Star Trek episodes in it like Past Tense, but I don't think it's Star Trek as as whole.)

I say all this and I think Star Trek Picard season 3 and most of Lower Decks and SNW are Star Trek. Also The Orville, but everyone considers that to be Star Trek anyway.

I know we, well I was, talking about TMP and how it effected the original generation of Trekkie's

This Jew Tuber does a pretty decent job of giving it a run down.

oh yah, I am loving the fuck out of Section 31 absolutely positively bombing like nothing before it. Even STD had better ratings. Hopefully this is the end of that abomination known as Putzman Trek.

The thing about TMP is that it was originally *supposed* to be the pilot to Star Trek Phase II, but that got all fucked up with the success of Star Wars so we got a big budget movie that's a proto TNG Season 1 thematically. And written by Roddenberry. It can't be overstated how much the fandom went over for it at the time - the *fandom*, not the general public. For better or worse we got Wrath of Khan after it which was better on most levels, especially getting rid of all the weird sex stuff Roddenberry was obsessed with.

 

[XYZpdq Jr.]

ah, they found another surviving refugee from The Southern Part Of The Galaxy

 

[teriyakiburns]

I can't recall if this guy has been mentioned before or not, but I'm mentioning him anyway. He's spent the last couple of years making motion-control model shots of old Star Trek model kits. Obvious model flaws aside (the AMT Enterprise is a horribly inaccurate model), some of them actually look pretty decent. He's apparently saving up to build a Polar Lights constitution class for future projects.

Here's his video recreating some shots of the E-D.

And the old lady herself:

Member when star trek had real filming models?

 

[Iron Jaguar]

I also don't consider DS9 to be actual Star Trek

My issue with DS9 is that most of the characters were boring. The only times it was good were when Quark or Garak were up to something.
Actually, Star Trek outside of TOS seems to have a problem with dull supporting characters: Harry Kim; Hoshi Sato; Kira Nerys; the nigger from Enterprise; Kes was by far the worst of all - I have to skip any scene she's in.

 

[Sweeter and Savoury]

I think the biggest issue with Putzman Trek is how far the scope of danger has expanded.

We went from planet killers to solar system destroyers and now in Section 31 we have a weapon that will destroy the whole galaxy. So I guess next Putzman project will have a villain with a super weapon that will just blow up the entire Universe?

If you think back to Wrath, obviously the greatest Star Trek movie and arguably one of the best Sci-Fi movies ever made (not the best but top ten easy) what is it's scope?

Oh it's all about a conflict between two people, that's it. And if you look even closer it's more about internal conflict then any great threat. Kirk is fighting time itself, he refuses to accept that his glory days are behind him (and as an old man myself let me tell you how hard that realization is) and trying to come to terms with that fact. Ultimately Kirk succeeds and is able to move forward

Khan is fighting his desire for revenge. He's lost everything and now his desire to hurt Kirk is fighting with his duty/love to his family (remember Khan made great personal sacrifices to ensure his people would survive in TOS) but now he's become so consumed by his lust for revenge he throws away their lives to strike out at Kirk and ultimately he loses as he could not overcome his desire for revenge which comes to cost him everything in the end.

That's it...no world breaking super weapons (yes yes I know the Genesis device) no race to save the galaxy, no reality ending threat. Just two old men trying to come to grips with their past lives so they can move forward, one succeeding and one failing.

Modern Hollywood writers think the bigger the threat the bigger the tension so they go balls to the wall and make everything a universe ending threat. They really learned the wrong lessons from End Game, it wasn't Thanatos that everyone wanted to see so badly but the whole Avenger's team come together.

Hell the latest Doctor Strange movie had Satan himself in it as the villain. How much bigger can you go?

Star Trek worked because it was more of a character study then a action film and as soon as it deviated from that ideal it started to flop. Kirk, Spock and Bones are really just one person split into three characters and it's the interplay between them that is the core of Star Trek. The rest is just background wrapping, that's why some of the best TOS episode have nothing to do with Sci-Fi and are just the 3 main characters working off of each other. It's a real shame that Putzman just can't see that.

Anyhoo here is a nice video of Montalban talking about his time as Khan. I think it's funny both that he never spent any time on set with Shatner as the shooting schedule was split up to work around his TV show so the two greatest ham's never got a chance to work off of each other (oh what might have been!) and that he thinks it's hilarious that he's now more well known for a one off character appearance from a failed TV show then his years of work in Hollywood. "..it just goes to show you that fate is a funny thing, you really never do know where your career will take you". It's also really cool that he really likes the Khan character, Khan appeals to him and Montalban put a lot of time and effort to making sure Khan came across as more of a real person then some cardboard villain goes so far as to get the writers to change lines and allow him to improvise.

He's such a class act and nice dude...why are all these Latino actors so awesome? (Raul Julia was also a great actor and person who went balls to the wall in anything he worked on)

 

[Lithos]

I think the biggest issue with Putzman Trek is how far the scope of danger has expanded.

We went from planet killers to solar system destroyers and now in Section 31 we have a weapon that will destroy the whole galaxy. So I guess next Putzman project will have a villain with a super weapon that will just blow up the entire Universe?

That's been Kurtzman's writing style since Day 1. It's like he was raised on Dragon Ball Z fanfiction.
STD Season 1: Klingons can wipe out the Federation.
STD Season 2: An AI wipes out ALL biological life in the Milky Way.
STD Season 3: A basement-dwelling autistic alien wipes out all dilithium in the Milky Way, and was ready to have a spergout that would finish the galaxy.
STD Season 4: An extra-galactic race was mining all of the Milky Way to death.
STD Season 5: A progenitor device that can "reboot" the entire Milky Way.

PIC Season 1: Ancient AI would wipe out all biological life in the Milky Way (Mass Effect ripoff)
PIC Season 2: A gateway would've eaten the Milky Way, but traveling to MAGAland somehow creates cuddly-Borg to help stop the gate.
PIC Season 3: Just some aliens wanting revenge on the Federation. Not actually a galaxy-ending threat. Different because Kurtzman was not involved.

Now this movie with its galaxy-ending McGuffin... He has nothing else.

 

[UnKillFill]

@Sweeter and Savoury Kurtzman trek actually already did that in Lower Decks of all things. The stakes of the last episode was multiverse bullshit that threatened the blow up the entire universe. (it was the set up in the episode with gay holographic Bashir and Garek.)

 

[Clown College 2nd Year]

and the woman on the right is Rachel Garrett. I'm not kidding...

Ya...don't remind me.

 

[Judge Holden]

and the woman on the right is Rachel Garrett. I'm not kidding...

Wait so....lets do the fuckin math here.

This is TOS era and Rachel Garrett is in her 20s, but she was a middle aged captain of the Enterprise C like a generation after uh....Generations so either she is well over 100 years old by the time she looks middle aged or this shit takes place the best part of a century after STD and Michelle Yeoh's insufferable character just didn't age.

 

[WonderWino]

I think the biggest issue with Putzman Trek is how far the scope of danger has expanded.

We went from planet killers to solar system destroyers and now in Section 31 we have a weapon that will destroy the whole galaxy. So I guess next Putzman project will have a villain with a super weapon that will just blow up the entire Universe?

You say that half jokingly but its been done. At least in novel form. No joke, it involved weyoun becoming kai of bajor after leading an expedition into a new wormhole created by the pah wraiths who proceed to brainwash him the way the prophets did to grand nagus zek to make him non greedy, except in his case they made him worship the pah wraiths as gods, which led to him starting a doomsday cult aimed at uniting the wormholes which somehow would destroy the universe while claiming he was doing it so everyone would ascend to some better plane of existence (spoiler: he was lying, it was so the pah wraiths could go back to whatever existence they had before the universe existed, they also made weyoun literally immortal because reasons)

Its a really, really bizarre book. At his rate I won't be surprised if somebody does try to make it into a movie. On the plus side, thomas riker dies in a particularly horrifying way, after proving he's a fucking retard, so theres that at least

 

[The Gene Genie]

Star Trek worked because it was more of a character study then a action film

The problem is the medium these days. Everything is either a film, which doesn't really allow you to character-study in the way a television show would let you, or a miniseries. All shows are miniseries' now. I would probably have a higher opinion of Strange New Worlds if it was able to tell the stories it wanted in a 20-25 episode season than in the 10 episodes it gets. Star Trek simply isn't made for the miniseries model unless you totally toss out the fabric of which the Modern Television Series Writing is based upon. Everyone wants their show to have "continuity between episodes" and tell a story arc over a season, but in my opinion all this has done - especially for Star Trek - is make it so that I just feel like it's one episode being dragged out over 10.

Wait so....lets do the fuckin math here.

This is TOS era and Rachel Garrett is in her 20s, but she was a middle aged captain of the Enterprise C like a generation after uh....Generations so either she is well over 100 years old by the time she looks middle aged or this shit takes place the best part of a century after STD and Michelle Yeoh's insufferable character just didn't age.

Kurtzman never watched TNG or Generations or anything that he didn't personally make, so I wouldn't think too hard about it. You can bet your wallet he didn't either.

 

[TenMilesWide]

Wait so....lets do the fuckin math here.

This is TOS era and Rachel Garrett is in her 20s, but she was a middle aged captain of the Enterprise C like a generation after uh....Generations so either she is well over 100 years old by the time she looks middle aged or this shit takes place the best part of a century after STD and Michelle Yeoh's insufferable character just didn't age.

Yeoh's character came out of STD Season 3's retarded time travel plotline a hundred years later than she'd gone in, so the timeline unfortunately fits.