Star Trek - Space: The Final Frontier

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WhatIsThePunchline said:
Didn't Orville have an episode where they needed to save people from some doomed planet but they could only ferry them out in small groups and so had to pick who to save? Think it ended with them not being able to save everyone.
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You dont even have to go that far, in Trek offical cannon there is lists per class of Ship in the official technical data books for Crew complement normal, Crew complement minimum and a Evacuation limit where the ship is at its maximum capacity for life support and even then they can expand on that a bit but it's considered dangerous to do.

I think the rule of thumb is something like Max crew complement *3 for the class and type for the evacuation limmit.

SteelPlatedHeart said:
He’s got a lot of former TNG staff on it too.
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He's a former trek actor himself only a bit part he's officially credited for but he was also a unnamed extra in a few as well.

Shamash said:
Personally, I like the idea in the future people will be or at least socialized to be professional, more stoic, and less prone to petty dick measuring and meaningless cat fights.

That doesn't mean disagreements won't exist, but just that people will generally work together when called to do so-and stow their personal gripes.

There's a scene in TNG with Worf and Data-where Data chews out Worf for second guessing him (Data was temporary captain), Worf accepts responsibility, Data maintains that while the behavior was unacceptable-they don't have to stop being friends and go back to business.

It's very mature and "advanced" in the sense that Worf doesn't carry a grudge for getting a dressing down, or Data doesn't punish/bully Worf for having challenged/interrupted him.

I'd say more than the "explore new civilizations" aspect-this defined Trek. People were of a higher quality than today, at least by way of socialization and education, if not some fundamental change in human(or sapient) nature.
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Starfleet despite what trekkies say is a military organisation, it might not be one that's always combat orentated but it hast the training, structure, uniforms etc to make it one and one thing military's (well professional ones) instill in people is when the Air to Lead ratio is higer than 0% you drop any personal shit you have going on and get to work as a team you might not like it but it's not just YOU and THE OTHER GUY, you are all one living breathing organism working together, you don't stab yourself in the back by attacking the person you have a problem with or neglecting them you leave that shit to the barracks room if you must do it at all.

I've had proper arguments with people who are close friends and barring one big exeption it normally gets resolved in a few minutes a hand shake and a cup of tea and a fag, no harm no foul just differing oppions but I also know a lot of people who can't do that and will throw away freidnships (or what they call one) over minor petty shit.
 
Shamash said:
People were of a higher quality than today, at least by way of socialization and education, if not some fundamental change in human(or sapient) nature.
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I miss the sense of optimism for the future that was reflected in Star Trek. I hear 9/11 started to end that.

In Current Year Clown World, it seems that's been replaced with the endless "cultural wars" egged on by woke.
 
ToroidalBoat said:
I miss the sense of optimism for the future that was reflected in Star Trek. I hear 9/11 started to end that.

In Current Year Clown World, it seems that's been replaced with the endless "cultural wars" egged on by woke.
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There is a theory about that's why ENT bombed hard on it's initial run, it was aired just after 911 and people where sad and angry and where out for revenge they didn't want optimistic and happy they wanted to see a big hard smackdown whete the good guys get knocked down then stand back up and kick arse - thats why we even got the Xindi war arc.
 
SteelPlatedHeart said:
He pitched it as a parody, but after you get passed the pilot, it’s very clear it’s just “Star Trek with a bit more comedy in it” rather than “lol Star Trek”. He’s got a lot of former TNG staff on it too.
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Just trek actors in general.

Ponderous Pillock said:
Nope, it's the god-awful short "The Trouble With Edward" in which the Captain's a humungous cunt in an attempt at humour, Edward gets killed by tribbles because she treated him like such shit he wound up pushing ahead with a project that she could've kiboshed and got him to focus on better work, or at least put a pin in for the time being while they looked at more suitable and less morally dubious route. (The Federation by this point likely has moved away from animal rearing and focused on protein resequencing a la Enterprise.)
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"Everyone's a dick."

Phalanges Mycologist said:
He's a former trek actor himself only a bit part he's officially credited for but he was also a unnamed extra in a few as well.
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(LoL that flavor text.)
 
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This popped up and I think it's rather funny, it shows how SG1 knew how to make jokes about itself and bad writing while Nu-Trek just writes those jokes as serious episodes. For those unfamiliar with this episode of SG1, it's a lighter episode where one of the people in the know pitched a television series based on SG1 without the media knowing what Stargate is, so he could pass it off as an original sci-fi idea. The episode is about them making sure he doesn't spill any classified info in the writing and them just consulting on it. Really funny episode from what I remember and a good way to do a Q style zany plot without having an all powerful being use magic.


Ponderous Pillock said:
Nope, it's the god-awful short "The Trouble With Edward" in which the Captain's a humungous cunt in an attempt at humour, Edward gets killed by tribbles because she treated him like such shit he wound up pushing ahead with a project that she could've kiboshed and got him to focus on better work, or at least put a pin in for the time being while they looked at more suitable and less morally dubious route. (The Federation by this point likely has moved away from animal rearing and focused on protein resequencing a la Enterprise.)

She then outright shows a callous lack of care that she pushed said scientist to drastic and stupid measures that got him killed by being such a twat and oturight says it at her hearing. Oh, and it implies its all Edward's fault that tribbles become a huge environmental hazard in the Galaxy to the point the Klingons launched an outright enormous war on them between the Kirk and Sisko eras.

I like to think she was dismissed from service after showing such a callous attitude to her command and people.
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I had to look it up because I seriously thought you were messing with me still. Holy shit man, who thought this was a good idea?


JamesFargo said:
Data has all the fun roles. He was definitely one of the most versatile characters, if not the most.
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Data is great because he's a character that can fit any role and most things are rather alien to him, which further allows the audience to have the world explained to them.
 
ToroidalBoat said:
Wikipedia says it started airing on September 26, 2001. Just about 2 weeks after 9/11.

Maybe not the best of timing...

(Maybe had it started airing earlier in the year it could've done better?)
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I tend to agree with the theory, it was a horrible time to do anything let alone launch a TV show like Trek, I didn't get to watch ENT till about a year or so after it finished it's initial run and was on Repeat on Channel 4's Sunday morning slot and I didn't get the hate it got as a series, had it's problems sure but not as bad as others had said until I read about that theory relating to 911 and it clicked.

A lot of Trek people tend to think we are the Trek humans always wanting optimistic happy outcomes, the reality is we are more like Klingons when our blood is up we want to smash the face in of the person who wronged us there are times when something happens we just want and need to be angry and the optimism presented by Trek isn't something we'd like to engage with when we feel like that and 9/11 was that for a lot of people.
 
Phalanges Mycologist said:
Starfleet despite what trekkies say is a military organisation, it might not be one that's always combat orentated but it hast the training, structure, uniforms etc to make it one and one thing military's (well professional ones) instill in people is when the Air to Lead ratio is higer than 0% you drop any personal shit you have going on and get to work as a team you might not like it but it's not just YOU and THE OTHER GUY, you are all one living breathing organism working together, you don't stab yourself in the back by attacking the person you have a problem with or neglecting them you leave that shit to the barracks room if you must do it at all.
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The Federation Golden Age can be traced from the Khitomer Accords of 2293 right up to the Dominon War of 2373, some 80 years of which that military attitude is eroded continously.

During the films they talk of the "mothballing" and dismantling of the War Fleet and Federation shipbuilding changes almost to the heavily armed luxury liners in space we know and love in its entirety until the Battle of Wolf 359, Where even then its only a smaller batch of Starfleet Admirals who become more warhawkish because of the Borg threat.

The problem is thats the Trek most of these guys have seen, we have to remember a lot of the show runners and writers until really quite recently were not Trek nerds as Paramount did its usual Big Corporation tactic of shitting on the core audience before realising they kind of need them and generally firing or locking into the cupboard of the stupid bastards who'd been doing that.

So, for most of these people know the hippie peace and love Federation was how its always been. On top of that these people want to write Drama doesn't matter one whit if its suitable or not for the episode.
 
Ponderous Pillock said:
The Federation Golden Age can be traced from the Khitomer Accords of 2293 right up to the Dominon War of 2373, some 80 years of which that military attitude is eroded continously.

During the films they talk of the "mothballing" and dismantling of the War Fleet and Federation shipbuilding changes almost to the heavily armed luxury liners in space we know and love in its entirety until the Battle of Wolf 359, Where even then its only a smaller batch of Starfleet Admirals who become more warhawkish because of the Borg threat.

The problem is thats the Trek most of these guys have seen, we have to remember a lot of the show runners and writers until really quite recently were not Trek nerds as Paramount did its usual Big Corporation tactic of shitting on the core audience before realising they kind of need them and generally firing or locking into the cupboard of the stupid bastards who'd been doing that.

So, for most of these people know the hippie peace and love Federation was how its always been. On top of that these people want to write Drama doesn't matter one whit if its suitable or not for the episode.
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You do bring up a good point, but that Golden Age was supposed to represent the end of the Cold War (and was oddly proffetic) TNG era trek ships are all capable of fighting even if they are ships of exploration, they also have a hull longevity and refit abillity no other Trek Power has.

The federation had faught wars in that period of time as well, and constantly refined there technology even against a smaller power like the Cardassians they had improved there military tech and training even using older ships than TNG era most of those classes where still around at the point of the Domminion War, just for reference that would be like the US today fielding a Wicks Class destroyer as it rolled of the ship line in the 1930's without any upgrades.

I tend to think of The Golden era as the second age of exploration ships, they where not sail powered alone, they had modern armaments and soldiers and sailors but also had a heavy focus on exploration and scientific advancement, they knew they where not going to run into random native powers as fast or capable as them and only other exploration fleets would pose a threat to them.


The Borg where the idea that Star Fleet might need a real dedicated battle facillity, and the test bed for that was the Defiant and the Defiant class, but the officer class who only knew the golden age mothballed it untill the Domminion became a realistic threat but used a lot of its tech in other ship classes even as a retrofit.

And your right, modern Trek writers dont know any of this they also dont know anything about Military discipline or thinking and it shows and the show suffers as a result.
 
JamesFargo said:
Conversely: Quark's speeches would resonate a lot better in the WTC aftermath.

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I find it Ironic a species that fights wars with money and only really thinks of weapons as a commodity or a self defence item have some of the most real takes on War.

The only time I've not liked the Ferangi are in the first TNG episode and the Ent episode Acquisition, The Ferangi are mercahnts them being pirates and soldiers of fortunes is not in there profile - if anything it would put people of from trading with them they have weapons but only purely as self defence and in DS9 Quark hinted that arms dealing was acceptable but frouned upon and that Ferangi make shit tactical decisios so farm it out to other species on there ships.
 
Phalanges Mycologist said:
I find it Ironic a species that fights wars with money and only really thinks of weapons as a commodity or a self defence item have some of the most real takes on War.
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Half of Star Trek is like “I hate neoliberalism unless it’s from 1999, then I stan it.”

Most people use the term to refer to cringey things liberal types do. I'm referring to the actual economic policy of liberalism: open borders, free markets, NATO bombing civilians etc.
 
Phalanges Mycologist said:
I find it Ironic a species that fights wars with money and only really thinks of weapons as a commodity or a self defence item have some of the most real takes on War.

The only time I've not liked the Ferangi are in the first TNG episode and the Ent episode Acquisition, The Ferangi are mercahnts them being pirates and soldiers of fortunes is not in there profile - if anything it would put people of from trading with them they have weapons but only purely as self defence and in DS9 Quark hinted that arms dealing was acceptable but frouned upon and that Ferangi make shit tactical decisios so farm it out to other species on there ships.
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Cousin Gaila owned his own moon from arms dealing. Pretty sure military stuff is frowned upon doing it to other Ferengi, but other races are fair game. After all, to quote rule 17, "A contract is a contract is a contract... but only between Ferengi."* Then, when the Ferengi have to defend themselves, they use whatever the pay to win strategy is applicable. Tech-wise, they are equal to the Feds Galaxy class in season 1, which was considered top tech at the time.

*I kept confusing it with 16, "A deal is a deal, until a better one comes along."
 
Phalanges Mycologist said:
we are more like Klingons
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I think the Earthlings of real life are like every "major race" of Star Trek combined.

The scheming of Romulans, the warmongering and honor of Klingons, the tyranny of Cardassians, the greed and fixation on money of Ferengi, and the groupthink and technological obsession of Borg. Yet also the curiosity and diplomacy of future Earthlings.
 
JamesFargo said:
Half of Star Trek is like “I hate neoliberalism unless it’s from 1999, then I stan it.”

Most people use the term to refer to cringey things liberal types do. I'm referring to the actual economic policy of liberalism: open borders, free markets, NATO bombing civilians etc.
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Trek is prety much NATO and the ideals shilled outside of the solar system.

Drag-on Knight 91873 said:
Cousin Gaila owned his own moon from arms dealing. Pretty sure military stuff is frowned upon doing it to other Ferengi, but other races are fair game. After all, to quote rule 17, "A contract is a contract is a contract... but only between Ferengi."* Then, when the Ferengi have to defend themselves, they use whatever the pay to win strategy is applicable. Tech-wise, they are equal to the Feds Galaxy class in season 1, which was considered top tech at the time.

*I kept confusing it with 16, "A deal is a deal, until a better one comes along."
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As I said Ferangi havent had a real war in a long time, they will sell weapons and make bank doing so but they will sell to everyone they are essentiall the Swiss of Trek, its all about the proffit and the rist to proffit trade off, Quark is a more risky member of his species but he doesnt want to dabble in weapons.
 
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