Star Trek - Space: The Final Frontier

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Miller said:
Perhaps Starfleet believes that non-Federation planets have rape gangs roaming in the system so if someone has been missing for a week then they're considered to have been raped to death.
Those Tasha Yar episodes are so fucking weird.
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You just know that Planet of the Rapes idea came from Gene. It had to have been.
 
Travoltron said:
You just know that Planet of the Rapes idea came from Gene. It had to have been.
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Tonight's Episode- The Writer's Barely Disguised Fetish.png
 
Not a Trekkie.

Was watching TNG episode from season 3 in 1989, "The Ensigns of Command".

Data is sent to the surface of Tau Sygni to negotiate for a colony of marooned humans there to evacuate and permanently emigrate because the Federation has negotiated a treaty with an alien race, the Sheliak, to hand over the planet for colonization to prevent the genocide of the human population.

The stranded human population has lived there for generations and refuses to leave.

Their leader Gosheven is particularly opposed.

A public hearing to discuss the dilemma is set up in the town square. Data hopes to make his case to the citizens at large to allow the 15k pop to be evacuated.

When Data arrives at the meeting, the human leader Gosheven announces to the gathered citizens that the Federation has sent an Android to spread "misinformation" about the need to evacuate.

It was interesting to hear the term used in its present context back in 1989.

It feels like the word was conjured whole cloth sometime after spring 2020.
 
Mordecai 3 Finger Brown said:
Not a Trekkie.

Was watching TNG episode from season 3 in 1989, "The Ensigns of Command".

Data is sent to the surface of Tau Sygni to negotiate for a colony of marooned humans there to evacuate and permanently emigrate because the Federation has negotiated a treaty with an alien race, the Sheliak, to hand over the planet for colonization to prevent the genocide of the human population.

The stranded human population has lived there for generations and refuses to leave.

Their leader Gosheven is particularly opposed.

A public hearing to discuss the dilemma is set up in the town square. Data hopes to make his case to the citizens at large to allow the 15k pop to be evacuated.

When Data arrives at the meeting, the human leader Gosheven announces to the gathered citizens that the Federation has sent an Android to spread "misinformation" about the need to evacuate.

It was interesting to hear the term used in its present context back in 1989.

It feels like the word was conjured whole cloth sometime after spring 2020.
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Hmm...

Mordecai 3 Finger Brown said:
Not a Trekkie.
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After reading your post... Mordecai, maybe you should sit down. We've got to discuss a few things.

But yeah you'd be surprised how the new tricks are same as the old tricks. Or not. You're pretty smart and it is just a turn of phrase.
 
Mordecai 3 Finger Brown said:
It was interesting to hear the term used in its present context back in 1989.

It feels like the word was conjured whole cloth sometime after spring 2020.
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Etymology isn't really my thing, but it would be pretty weird if the word were coined by Star Trek.
It is possible, but not settled, the term "Self Destruct" appeared first on Star Trek or Outer Limits.
 
BScCollateral said:
Etymology isn't really my thing, but it would be pretty weird if the word were coined by Star Trek.
It is possible, but not settled, the term "Self Destruct" appeared first on Star Trek or Outer Limits.
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I wasn't suggesting that ST coined "misinformation".

Just musing about how seeing "Current Thing" terminology used in old media hits differently when rewatched decades later.

Had a similar experience last week watching an early 90s episode of Seinfeld where Kramer talks about "alternative media" informing him of the "truth" that some seniors volunteer organizations were just a scam.
 
I'm going to fansperg for a bit about Klingons, okay?

I was just watching SFDebris' episode on House of Quark, and I think I finally figured out how to reconcile Klingon culture existing with, well, Klingons actually existing. At least, original Trek klingons, from the TOS movies through Voyager.

I'm sure I'm not the first person to think along these lines. I think there's even been a few allusions to it in the various series... The klingon geneticist in Enterprise, for example. But basically...

We're not seeing Klingon culture. Not really. Klingons are basically a hereditary aristocracy, with great houses and warrior-generals and stuff. Even poor orphan Worf was technically born into a noble house. The average klingon, the merchants, the scientists, the engineers, the... I dunno, janitors and prostitutes and whatever. They just don't enter in to the world we see. Probably very few of them leave the homeworld. They're a semi-oppressed undercast that the aristocratic warrior caste have little use for except as Batleth-fodder when they go to war. When we do see them, they pay as much lip service to the klingon ways as they have to to get by, but they're not insane. The klingon aristocracy may scoff at finances and science and stuff, but someone has to do it.

Now, this isn't a perfect society even if we allow for this. Because the warrior-aristocracy, the.... The space-shoganate, let's say, are influential enough that they do direct how society evolves. For example, we know klingon medicine is considered primative by federation standards, because they have a more blase attitude towards death in general. Honorable deaths should not be circumvented by putting people back together, basically. But it lets their society function, mostly. The bumpy-headed samurai look down on the peasants and try not to think about them, but they're still there, keeping society going.

... Sorry. Random, and hell, it's probably been dealt with in a novel or something.
 
MembersSchoolPizza said:
I'm going to fansperg for a bit about Klingons, okay?

I was just watching SFDebris' episode on House of Quark, and I think I finally figured out how to reconcile Klingon culture existing with, well, Klingons actually existing. At least, original Trek klingons, from the TOS movies through Voyager.

I'm sure I'm not the first person to think along these lines. I think there's even been a few allusions to it in the various series... The klingon geneticist in Enterprise, for example. But basically...

We're not seeing Klingon culture. Not really. Klingons are basically a hereditary aristocracy, with great houses and warrior-generals and stuff. Even poor orphan Worf was technically born into a noble house. The average klingon, the merchants, the scientists, the engineers, the... I dunno, janitors and prostitutes and whatever. They just don't enter in to the world we see. Probably very few of them leave the homeworld. They're a semi-oppressed undercast that the aristocratic warrior caste have little use for except as Batleth-fodder when they go to war. When we do see them, they pay as much lip service to the klingon ways as they have to to get by, but they're not insane. The klingon aristocracy may scoff at finances and science and stuff, but someone has to do it.

Now, this isn't a perfect society even if we allow for this. Because the warrior-aristocracy, the.... The space-shoganate, let's say, are influential enough that they do direct how society evolves. For example, we know klingon medicine is considered primative by federation standards, because they have a more blase attitude towards death in general. Honorable deaths should not be circumvented by putting people back together, basically. But it lets their society function, mostly. The bumpy-headed samurai look down on the peasants and try not to think about them, but they're still there, keeping society going.

... Sorry. Random, and hell, it's probably been dealt with in a novel or something.
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Your pretty much right. Every time we meet non-klingon warriors they pretty much mirror this philosophy. They respect the warrior ways and try to incorporate them into their professions (see the Klingon lawyer and chef in DS9 or the Klingon lawyer in enterprise), but they are nowhere near as aggressive and violent as the warrior caste elite who control everything.
 
Just wanted to chime in about "misinformation."

I've heard that term all my life (born in 1980), but it wasn't until the 2020's that I'd heard "disinformation."

For content: Klingons are the best in TNG and DS9.
 
MembersSchoolPizza said:
I'm going to fansperg for a bit about Klingons, okay?

I was just watching SFDebris' episode on House of Quark, and I think I finally figured out how to reconcile Klingon culture existing with, well, Klingons actually existing. At least, original Trek klingons, from the TOS movies through Voyager.

I'm sure I'm not the first person to think along these lines. I think there's even been a few allusions to it in the various series... The klingon geneticist in Enterprise, for example. But basically...

We're not seeing Klingon culture. Not really. Klingons are basically a hereditary aristocracy, with great houses and warrior-generals and stuff. Even poor orphan Worf was technically born into a noble house. The average klingon, the merchants, the scientists, the engineers, the... I dunno, janitors and prostitutes and whatever. They just don't enter in to the world we see. Probably very few of them leave the homeworld. They're a semi-oppressed undercast that the aristocratic warrior caste have little use for except as Batleth-fodder when they go to war. When we do see them, they pay as much lip service to the klingon ways as they have to to get by, but they're not insane. The klingon aristocracy may scoff at finances and science and stuff, but someone has to do it.

Now, this isn't a perfect society even if we allow for this. Because the warrior-aristocracy, the.... The space-shoganate, let's say, are influential enough that they do direct how society evolves. For example, we know klingon medicine is considered primative by federation standards, because they have a more blase attitude towards death in general. Honorable deaths should not be circumvented by putting people back together, basically. But it lets their society function, mostly. The bumpy-headed samurai look down on the peasants and try not to think about them, but they're still there, keeping society going.

... Sorry. Random, and hell, it's probably been dealt with in a novel or something.
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I agree, I think there must be a whole Klingon ruleset we never really see because it's not relevant.

The caste system is definitely important. Klingons don't have general elections. When Gorkon is killed, his daughter becomes the head of the council - clearly a hereditary thing. I think they just get a seat on the council by being the head of a major noble house. There are probably different levels to the nobility, and only the most powerful houses get onto the council. There is a game of thrones, but also there are rules. The Duras family were such a pain in the ass because they were super powerful with a huge fleet and that gave them power on the council despite being scum.

We see servant Klingons a few times, they certainly don't seem as hardcore as the warriors. They can't have the same rights as the warriors or everything would collapse. For example, Worf or Martok could challenge Gowron's honor and it leads to a nice honorable duel to the death. If K'sneed the air conditioner repairman were to do that he would get laughed at and then vaporized. Worf is from a noble house, and Martok was a commoner but he was still a warrior and also a general who had built up a lot of honor points in battle.
 
Travoltron said:
I may have posted about this already, but that episode really doesn't make sense. Everybody is talking down to Geordi and scoffing at the idea that his mother could still be alive after being missing for a week. Where in the Star Trek Universe, that is completely and totally possible. Voyager being the most obvious example, missing for seven years. But the Bozeman was missing even longer, and that episode happened two seasons before Geordi's mom went missing.
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The main problem with the theory was that she went missing in a system tens of light years away, in circumstances that were pretty conclusively terminal.

Chilson said:
the Klingon lawyer in enterprise
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This guy was interesting (apart from being played by J G Hertzler, who is always interesting) for what he said about Klingon society at the time; that honour used to mean something more than just being a warrior, but that the youth were becoming polarised into the idea that only slaughter and death were the way to find honour and everything else was somehow lesser. I think that was the writers trying to explain why Klingon society is so obsessed with the warrior mindset, even though it would be detrimental to their social order in the long term. It does dovetail nicely into the increasingly hidebound and ossified nature of Klingon society over time. It could even be argued that the only reason the Klingon empire survives in such an unchanged form into the 24th century is because of Federation support and aid, however begrudgingly it was accepted at the time. Without that support, their top-heavy, face-based society (Klingon "honour" is really based on face and shame, similar to certain far-eastern social mores) might have eventually either fallen into internal strife, resulting in civil conflict and expansionist wars, or might have peacefully overturned and allowed the lower "castes" to become more prominent again. Given what we saw in Yesterday's Enterprise, the former seems more likely.
 
ToroidalBoat said:
I lost any real interest in keeping up with ST with that reboot movie in 2009.

For some reason the movie sounded unappealing from just hearing about it then.
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Star Trek 09 had some cool moments, but it's one of those modern blockbusters with no wit and it had the shitty Jar Jar Abrams certified lens flare that ruined my experience. But I thought it was decent for what it's worth. That said, everything afterwards was complete dogshit. Into Darkness was the one movie that made me hate modern Star Trek.
 
TVB said:
Star Trek 09 had some cool moments, but it's one of those modern blockbusters with no wit and it had the shitty Jar Jar Abrams certified lens flare that ruined my experience. But I thought it was decent for what it's worth.
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I liked it okay, although like you point out there was not much substance to it. I probably wouldn't have bothered with it if I hadn't had an IMAX screening nearby, because you know this kind of Abrams cheese is mainly going to be a showcase for special effects.

So not expecting much from it, I wasn't disappointed.

Word of mouth was so shit on everything after that I didn't even bother.
 
TVB said:
Star Trek 09 had some cool moments, but it's one of those modern blockbusters with no wit and it had the shitty Jar Jar Abrams certified lens flare that ruined my experience. But I thought it was decent for what it's worth. That said, everything afterwards was complete dogshit. Into Darkness was the one movie that made me hate modern Star Trek.
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It's really sad how I kinda look back on it nostalgic because of how shit TV trek is now. I hated how it was action movie trek and I didn't want to follow the reboot verse. Be careful what you wish for... At least season 3 was good.

I was actually looking forward to how batshit a Tarantino star trek would have been. Shame that never got off the ground.
 
AnOminous said:
I liked it okay, although like you point out there was not much substance to it. I probably wouldn't have bothered with it if I hadn't had an IMAX screening nearby, because you know this kind of Abrams cheese is mainly going to be a showcase for special effects.

So not expecting much from it, I wasn't disappointed.

Word of mouth was so shit on everything after that I didn't even bother.
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Michael Wade said:
It's really sad how I kinda look back on it nostalgic because of how shit TV trek is now. I hated how it was action movie trek and I didn't want to follow the reboot verse. Be careful what you wish for... At least season 3 was good.

I was actually looking forward to how batshit a Tarantino star trek would have been. Shame that never got off the ground.
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Jar Jar Abrams bullshit dumbed down action is what nearly killed my enjoyment for the 09 movie, but it really massacred my enjoyment for Into Darkness
As much of a shitty director Jar Jar Abrams really is, I cannot fault him for his bullshit Hollywood blockbuster movies he pumps out. Shocking, I know, but the blame has to be on two summer movies from 1996 and 1998, respectively, those being Roland Emmerich's Independence Day and Michael Bay's Armageddon. Those two movies pioneered the idea of Hollywood blockbusters with unoriginal and stupid writing. Both Emmerich and Bay were very famous (or rather infamous) for their respective trademarked identities. For Bay, it was explosions and for Emmerich, it was world destruction. Jar Jar Abrams has the same exact shit as the two, but with his added lens flare.
 
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