Star Trek - Space: The Final Frontier

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AnOminous said:
Shatner and Montalban were both ham actors who chewed the scenery like Great Whites and seeing them go at each other was amazing.
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And remember Kirk never beamed over to Khan's ship to punch him and arm the self destruct. They completely sold the intensity and the two never met.
Seriously, it's an amazing film, despite the damage it did to the series. It's like Resident Evil 4.
ToroidalBoat said:
Part 1 aired on June 18 in 1990, and Part 2 aired months later on September 24. In other words, all of summer without the conclusion.
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They should have started Part 2 with Jonathan Frakes reading the "These are the voyages of the starship Enterprise." I will never forgive them for that.
 
UnKillShredDur said:
One might argue back that if you end up liking a villain, are they even really a villain?

Garek for example, is implied to have done many, many terrible things in his past, perhaps even more than Dukat himself, and the only reason he really stopped is because Dukat fucked him over. Would you call Garek a villain?
(And don't say "no" , because he works with the crew more often than not. Dukat works with the crew quite a bit in early seasons.)

Dukat was absolutely an infinitely better character than Winn, but the times where he was at his most villainous, were also when he was at his worst.
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Garak and dukat have entirely different reasons for their actions. Whatever else you can say about his actions what garak did is out of duty to his people not for personal gain or out of malicious and petty cruelty. Dukat is the opposite, he's a narcissistic twit who abused his position and did what he did to benefit himself. I wouldn't call garak good exactly but he certainly isn't evil

That said dukat was an evil fuck but he also wasn't entirely to blame for his actions. He was right in that had he not done what he did he'd have been replaced by someone who would have because the government wanted the situation dealt with and didn't care how it was done. Chances are he has a legitimate point when he said the bajorans were lucky to have him in charge because his replacement would have been even worse. He also wasn't entirely wrong about the bajorans. The resistance was engaging in legitimate islamic militant tier terrorism. Planting bombs in public, killing civilians, even killing their own if they decided those people got a little too friendly with the cardassians. Plus they knew how the cardassians would react, because they realistically had to react. They couldn't just let a bunch of terrorists pull that shit regardless of their reasons for it. Which just kept forcing an escalation. The bajorans made that choice and are just as responsible for the blood on their hands that resulted as the cardassians are. They rationalized it as the ends justify the means but there is a fine line there and that kind of mentality can be used to justify anything. Section 31 said exactly the same thing when trying to assassinate people and commit genocide. The bajorans play victim far too much considering their own actions and have a stubborn pride about it, which garak subtly points out when he got pissy about being given a name tag that read 'elim garak: former cardassian oppressor' for giving opposing points from the cardassian side of things at some conference he was at. Its easy to miss what he was getting at but its clearly intended to be a subtle jab at the bajorans not being as innocent in the whole thing as they like to portray themselves

teriyakiburns said:
I thought that was the most realistic thing about her. Wheelchair users often get a bit of a complex about people helping them, especially if it's unwanted or overly patronising. It leads to them being short-fused and needlessly antagonistic.
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Scary movie 2 parodied that behavior perfectly
 
So I finally finished listening to "A Stitch in Time." I usually despise books on tape, podcasts, radio dramas etc. but since this was written and voiced by Robinson, I figured I'd give it a go.

It took two road trips to finish it, but I really ended up enjoying the hell out of it. There were definitely slow parts, where he goes into a bit of an autistic level of detail regarding some combat exercises from his college years. Despite those, it was pretty damn enjoyable, hearing Garak flesh out his own character in a pretty convincing way, without getting too Mary Sue about anything. It tied up a few loose ends from his character on DS9, without introducing too much nonsense.

It maybe could have been a bit shorter, or had more backstory threads instead of the strategy bits. I'd like to see more books like this for other characters in the ST universe, done by their actors.

Sorry this isn't exactly an in-depth book report. I enjoyed it, especially since Garak was probably my favorite DS9 character. My time listening to it was not a waste, and I'd recommend this to others.

Thank you for attending my Ted Talk.
 
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AnOminous said:
My favorite kind of villain is one who actually has a completely legitimate beef.
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From Khan's point of view, Kirk is the villain. And he isn't even completely wrong.
Dude marooned him on a planet, and he/Starfleet in general was so incompetent that they not only did they not keep track of the planet that they left him on (I guess they have no obligation to do that but...), they then ended up confusing it with an entirely different planet, which is the only reason why he was even able to exact his "wrath".
 
Cpl. Long Dong Silver said:
Stoned out of my mind I've decided to keep a running journal of my 1st reactions to DS9 Season 2 post Cripple Bitch AKA Gas the normies AKA Ensign Palzar

Rules of Acquisition: Islam The Ferengi are right about woman. Shout out to Quark for refusing a loving woman you connect with on a deeper level for not being content as a trad wife. She's for the streets!! - seriously tho a good/great episode as it was just a strong A plot as opposed to a mid to high A plot "Bajor bullshir" and a superfluous B plot like "Nog and Jake learn not to shove firecrackers up a space animal's ass.

Shit I'm about to fall asleep. Will make it more than one episode next time
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Ok I have some more
E8 Necessary Evil:
Another great episode! A hard boiled noir detective story in space? With femme fatales? Count me in. Loved the lighting/look of flashback occupation DS9 compared to modern day. Odo killed it as did Dukat. Was a great look at the occupation without becoming a slog. I just wish it was longer.

Also Rom's autistic screaming when Quark was being smothered was hilarious. With last episode and this that's two straight strong Quark stories. Just a gem episode. 11/10.

E9 Second Sight:
Wholesome opening with Ben and Jake talking over a nightmare and missing mom. "Dad are you in love? With a woman" damn Jake did you think Sisko was down low? O'Brien's face during the meeting with professor Seyetik onboard the Prometheus was priceless. Dude was so over it. Oh and what a surprise mystery lady is his wife...or is she. I'm kind of over this one and it's not over....ok solid finish. Felt like an old TOS episode written for Kirk. Solid Sisko performance and 9/11ng into a star to restart it is kind of based. 7.25/10

E10 Sanctuary: LOL is this Bajoran playing the DS9 opening theme? Oh great another unannounced ship through the wormhole about to blow up, let's beam aboard the crew. Does anyone remember the last time you did that with the Klingons?!?!? At least quarantine these bums. Oh God are these space Gypsies?!?! Gul Dukat would have already thrown then out an airlock. Major Kira as tard wrangler, that's a new one. 3 million more space tards and it's a gyno centric culture run by women?!? BUILD THE WALL! Mine the wormhole and put up space razor wire.

Holy shit that vest Nog is rocking definitely didn't come from the men's section....wait a minute that hairstyle the Skrreean females rock looks familiar:

2011_08_11_Bentley_SleazyRider_ph_Family.jpg

Holy shit its mirror universe Warren Jeff's! I find it funny the space gypsy's smell and shed, this episode is growing on me. Uh oh I have a bad feeling Bajoran Kenny G is going to get tuned up by some lunch time Skrreean rowdies. "As a token of friendship here is my holo mixtape" nigga you are shameless. Aaaaandd Jake and Nog get jumped by Skkrrean rowdies. Holy shit Quark "Make yourself welcome somewhere else!" - American History Ferengi! I'm guessing reverse Warren Jeff's will blame this on Alpha Quadrant privilege and ask for Bajor as reparations. Yup, as I thought they want to culturally enrich Bajor. At least you aren't speaking Cardassian right Kira?!?! I will say I wish IRL governments prioritized their own people as much as the Bajoran provisional government. LOLOL Sisko keeps pimping Drelon II like he has property there to sell. And there go the Skrreean rowdies stealing cars ships, and here come the police Bajoran border patrol to ventilate them after the Skrreeans fired first. Good riddance you space gypsy scum, I hope Drelon II ends up like Ceti Alpha V. 8.75/10. Solid and hella based with some great meme moments.

Alright I'm off to bed.
 
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Cpl. Long Dong Silver said:
E10 Sanctuary: LOL is this Bajoran playing the DS9 opening theme? Oh great another unannounced ship through the wormhole about to blow up, let's beam aboard the crew. Does anyone remember the last time you did that with the Klingons?!?!? At least quarantine these bums. Oh God are these space Gypsies?!?! Gul Dukat would have already thrown then out an airlock. Major Kira as tard wrangler, that's a new one. 3 million more space tards and it's a gyno centric culture run by women?!? BUILD THE WALL! Mine the wormhole and put up space razor wire.

Holy shit that vest Nog is rocking definitely didn't come from the men's section....wait a minute that hairstyle the Skrreean females rock looks familiar:

2011_08_11_Bentley_SleazyRider_ph_Family.jpg

Holy shit its mirror universe Warren Jeff's! I find it funny the space gypsy's smell and shed, this episode is growing on me. Uh oh I have a bad feeling Bajoran Kenny G is going to get tuned up by some lunch time Skrreean rowdies. "As a token of friendship here is my holo mixtape" nigga you are shameless. Aaaaandd Jake and Nog get jumped by Skkrrean rowdies. Holy shit Quark "Make yourself welcome somewhere else!" - American History Ferengi! I'm guessing reverse Warren Jeff's will blame this on Alpha Quadrant privilege and ask for Bajor as reparations. Yup, as I thought they want to culturally enrich Bajor. At least you aren't speaking Cardassian right Kira?!?! I will say I wish IRL governments prioritized their own people as much as the Bajoran provisional government. LOLOL Sisko keeps pimping Drelon II like he has property there to sell. And there go the Skrreean rowdies stealing cars ships, and here come the police Bajoran border patrol to ventilate them after the Skrreeans fired first. Good riddance you space gypsy scum, I hope Drelon II ends up like Ceti Alpha V. 8.75/10. Solid and hella based with some great meme moments.

Alright I'm off to bed.
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You made it to the illegal immigrant episode! 8.75/10 is a little low IMO, but I'm glad you had fun with it.

Keep up these weed notes/recaps if you can. Having just finished watching DS9 for the first time a few months ago, I'm having a hoot reading them!
 
Cpl. Long Dong Silver said:
E10 Sanctuary
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Oh God, I completely fucking forgot about the episode with the smelly space gypsies with flaking skin who just show up, declare Bajor their promised land, and demand to be allowed to settle.
Meanwhile throughout the entire episode we're shown that they're matriarchal because their males are "too emotional"to govern, but at the same time it's shown that the females have almost no control over their males as the fuckers steal shit and pick fights. They were probably rapists to boot.

Understandably the Bajorans don't want to be culturally enriched by these "people" so the son of their impromptu leader, who was seemingly chosen because she was the first to visit DS9 rather than any actual leadership ability, steals a shuttle, shoots at the Bajoran military and gets himself killed.

I legitimately hope the Dominion dumped a load of biogenic weapons on Draylon II during the war.
 
Still Exceptional said:
Oh God, I completely fucking forgot about the episode with the smelly space gypsies with flaking skin who just show up, declare Bajor their promised land, and demand to be allowed to settle.
Meanwhile throughout the entire episode we're shown that they're matriarchal because their males are "too emotional"to govern, but at the same time it's shown that the females have almost no control over their males as the fuckers steal shit and pick fights. They were probably rapists to boot.

Understandably the Bajorans don't want to be culturally enriched by these "people" so the son of their impromptu leader, who was seemingly chosen because she was the first to visit DS9 rather than any actual leadership ability, steals a shuttle, shoots at the Bajoran military and gets himself killed.

I legitimately hope the Dominion dumped a load of biogenic weapons on Draylon II during the war.
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they were the final trump card for Section 31
Dominion go home or we beam them into The Great Link and you get dandruff all up in your goop
 
Cpl. Long Dong Silver said:
Holy shit its mirror universe Warren Jeff's! I find it funny the space gypsy's smell and shed, this episode is growing on me. Uh oh I have a bad feeling Bajoran Kenny G is going to get tuned up by some lunch time Skrreean rowdies. "As a token of friendship here is my holo mixtape" nigga you are shameless. Aaaaandd Jake and Nog get jumped by Skkrrean rowdies. Holy shit Quark "Make yourself welcome somewhere else!" - American History Ferengi! I'm guessing reverse Warren Jeff's will blame this on Alpha Quadrant privilege and ask for Bajor as reparations. Yup, as I thought they want to culturally enrich Bajor. At least you aren't speaking Cardassian right Kira?!?! I will say I wish IRL governments prioritized their own people as much as the Bajoran provisional government. LOLOL Sisko keeps pimping Drelon II like he has property there to sell. And there go the Skrreean rowdies stealing cars ships, and here come the police Bajoran border patrol to ventilate them after the Skrreeans fired first. Good riddance you space gypsy scum, I hope Drelon II ends up like Ceti Alpha V. 8.75/10. Solid and hella based with some great meme moments.
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Reading that makes me think borat would lose his shit if he ever went to DS9. I mean its got space gypsies and space jews, and you just know he'd try to wedding sack kira or dax and steal a shuttle to fly back to his homeland. Either that or he'd try it with a dabo girl and when quark called security he'd probably see odo shapeshift and accuse him of being a jew and start tossing strips of latinum at him to go away
 
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For shits and giggles, I watched "Mirror, Mirror", from TOS tonight... It was overall an enjoyable episode, but I have a few thoughts.

Kirk assumes that mirror Spock is a decent man, because HIS Spock is a decent man. This is illogical for many reasons.

Aren't *prime universe* Chekov and Sulu also decent men? But their mirror universe versions were obviously not.

Mirror Spock actively said that he didn't even want power. Maybe he shouldn't have had it to begin with. No wonder the "Terran Empire" canonically fell apart by DS9 times. Kirk made a really idiotic decision, and Mirror Spock was a terrible leader.
 
UnKillShredDur said:
For shits and giggles, I watched "Mirror, Mirror", from TOS tonight... It was overall an enjoyable episode, but I have a few thoughts.

Kirk assumes that mirror Spock is a decent man, because HIS Spock is a decent man. This is illogical for many reasons.

Aren't *prime universe* Chekov and Sulu also decent men? But their mirror universe versions were obviously not.

Mirror Spock actively said that he didn't even want power. Maybe he shouldn't have had it to begin with. No wonder the "Terran Empire" canonically fell apart by DS9 times. Kirk made a really idiotic decision, and Mirror Spock was a terrible leader.
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If you watch the mirror episode from Enterprise, the canonical storyline seems to be the mirror universe branches off from the regular universe when Zefram Cochrane and his rag tag band overrun the Vulcan ship during first contact and use it as a starting point to build an empire. I think in cannon, the idea is supposed to be it's the humans that are space nazis and the other races behave pretty much the same other than changes that are caused by humanity.

Now obviously, none of that was written when they wrote Mirror Mirror and it's basically a giant retcon. I think the idea at the time was positive emotions like love, generosity and comradery were flipped to bad emotions like lust, greed and jealousy in the mirror universe. Spock is emotionally natural and logical, so even with everything flipped, he is the same. So like, if you have a scale of -10 to 10 with -10 being the most evil emotions and 10 being the most good. A 5 person who is sort of good becomes a -5 who is sort of bad and a 8 who is really good, becomes a -8 who is really bad. Spock is at 0 and a flipped 0 is still 0, so he is the same besides the goatee. TOS makes some mention of Vulcans actually having emotions and suppressing them, but it's inconsistent and they often portrayed Spock as not having emotions at all.
 
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Never Scored said:
If you watch the mirror episode from Enterprise, the canonical storyline seems to be the mirror universe branches off from the regular universe when Zefram Cochrane and his rag tag band overrun the Vulcan ship during first contact and use it as a starting point to build an empire. I think in cannon, the idea is supposed to be it's the humans that are space nazis and the other races behave pretty much the same other than changes that are caused by humanity.
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What's funny is that if you read the Shatner books before the Enterprise episodes, he proposed the exact same thing!

Only in his books Crusher's memory wipe didn't fully take so Cochrane had half memories of the borg and was debating whether to tell the Vulcans. In the normal timeline, he apparently didn't and we got the Feds we know today. In the mirror universe, he did and humans & Vulcan teamed up to prepare themselves militarily to take on the Borg.
 
UnKillShredDur said:
Mirror Spock actively said that he didn't even want power. Maybe he shouldn't have had it to begin with. No wonder the "Terran Empire" canonically fell apart by DS9 times. Kirk made a really idiotic decision, and Mirror Spock was a terrible leader.
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This really bothered me and I couldn't enjoy any of those Mirror DS9 episodes. They did the Force Awakens thing that undid all the good that Kirk did. TOS was all about helping people. '60s American idealism.
It was really only in TNG when "Prime Directive over People" first started.
 
UnKillShredDur said:
For shits and giggles, I watched "Mirror, Mirror", from TOS tonight... It was overall an enjoyable episode, but I have a few thoughts.

Kirk assumes that mirror Spock is a decent man, because HIS Spock is a decent man. This is illogical for many reasons.

Aren't *prime universe* Chekov and Sulu also decent men? But their mirror universe versions were obviously not.

Mirror Spock actively said that he didn't even want power. Maybe he shouldn't have had it to begin with. No wonder the "Terran Empire" canonically fell apart by DS9 times. Kirk made a really idiotic decision, and Mirror Spock was a terrible leader.
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I think the lore reason why the Terran Empire fell apart was because Mirror Spock did try to larp as the Federation, but it was politically infeasible given the political climate. And it also means Kirk lied by omission because the regular universe also had war with great powers. It's just by the time of TOS, the war had gotten cold* and they were patrolling to stop possible incursions.

*Garth of Izar was still alive, meaning the Battle of Axanar was in living memory.
 
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