Star Trek - Space: The Final Frontier

[WTBOnlineFather]

As a few pointed out, the "bad" ending of Voyager at first isn't that bad. Sure some people died and got sick, but they had been doing that all 7 seasons. Why go back at that point and not earlier and save others?

Spoiler: More VOY ending spergery

It may not even be bad but they really fucked up the presentation. I don't care what happened offscreen to some potential future Voyager in 15 years and there's nothing the writers can really do to make me care. I care about the Voyager I've been following for 7 seasons. From the very beginning of the episode it's painfully obvious there's going to be some time travel bullshit because there always is when you see an obvious AU or timeskip scenario, so you spend half of the episode watching something happen that you just aren't invested in. And the other half that does take place on the "real" Voyager that matters to me isn't that great either. I just felt a little fucked in the ass because the grand finale of the entire show was wasted telling me something that doesn't matter and not showing me any of what I'd been anxiously hoping to see at the end.

 

[Friendly Primarina]

That exchange at the party where the EMH get offended by Tom assuming his girlfriend was holographic, and Tom responded with "I'm in a mixed marriage myself", gave me such second hand embarrassment. Who tf talks like that?

Speaking of Tom, I was reminded of this recently and it made me lol (1:45 if you can't stand watching Tom and Neelix interact for that long):

 

[Space Police]

Not only that - but time travel tech, from a Klingon. When did Klingons become Timelords? (They own "time crystals" in Discovery too.)

I suppose it makes sense if you view their scientific development as more like alchemy and less engineering.

 

[WelperHelper99]

Oh yeah as @Flexo knows, Ive been on a rewatch of DS9 for the past year. Have the DVD set, had it for years, decided why not. Finally finished it saturday. Sans a episode or two, its the perfect show. Its less action driven than TNG, phasers aren't firing each episode, but it trades that for having actual story arcs and characters you get to know. Favorite episode is still the Baseball episode. Favorite charecter oddly goes to Dumar. He had one hell of a redemption. He was your typical Cardassian, hated those Bajorians, simple as. Then he got stuck under the boot of the Dominion and you see this man crumble and rise into a leader. So good.

 

[bango skank]

Favorite episode is still the Baseball episode.

The correct opinion, with a message for anyone who disagrees:

Spoiler: spoiler

 

[WelperHelper99]

The correct opinion, with a message for anyone who disagrees:

Spoiler: spoiler

View attachment 6427343

Thing is Season 7 of DS9 was the most wild in terms of tone. Either the episodes were kino, or it was a Ezri episode with questionable writing. Personally I think S6 was more consistent. But when S7 hit its highs, it hit hard, it hit home runs.

 

[bango skank]

Thing is Season 7 of DS9 was the most wild in terms of tone. Either the episodes were kino, or it was a Ezri episode with questionable writing. Personally I think S6 was more consistent. But when S7 hit its highs, it hit hard, it hit home runs.

Ezri eps definitely dragged the season down a bit. It’s a shame Farrell had to leave before they finished the show, but at least Nicole de Boer was cute. Still, a bunch of my favorite episodes are season 7; Paper Moon, Inter Arma Enim, When it Rains… It’s actually hard to pick out singular episodes because the entire season was basically made up of like three multi-part storylines.

I’ve criticized modern Trek for not being more episodic while my favorite series ironically went all-in on serialized stories(by the end at least), but the difference is DS9 did it well.

 

[Cnut]

Season 6 is great but we could have had a desperate Dominion commandeer all trade in occupied zones for some real consequences to Quark and the Nagus (and Moogie) but instead we got Ferengi Seven* and Tranny Quark. Finally William Gibson in Star Trek and hes just some fatso tranny chaser who makes Slime Cola. Would have loved to see him as a mad scientist or something on the original series in a battle of wits with Kirk.

* That one has some good character stuff but Empok Nor was overdone and why doesn't Iggy Vorta realize the Nagus' main squeeze is a more valuable bargaining chip than for a guy who already told Starfleet everything he knows?

 

[XYZpdq Jr.]

I think the ending of Voyager works fine.
It's a big dumb ugly mess of borg, time travel, and janeway being better than anybody, even janeway
it's stupid pile of crap and a perfect finale for voyager

 

[Fatsuit Shinji]

That episode was frustrating to watch. They were so outraged by the Cardassian Mengele trying to save B'Elanna yet they never really went beyond "this is so naughty, we shouldn't be doing this".

Worst part is that nobody called pot kettle black as human "medical" knowledge is full of "Mengeles" mengeling and murdering TF out of animals and people. That's not even touching what the other species may have done before they joined the Federation.

 

[teriyakiburns]

Worst part is that nobody called pot kettle black as human "medical" knowledge is full of "Mengeles" mengeling and murdering TF out of animals and people. That's not even touching what the other species may have done before they joined the Federation.

The reason they focused on the cardie was for the conflict with Belana's Maquis background. The impact wouldn't have been the same if it was a Betazoid sociopath, for instance. It wasn't a brilliantly written episode though. The analogy fell flat.

 

[Dr. Sexbot]

The reason they focused on the cardie was for the conflict with Belana's Maquis background. The impact wouldn't have been the same if it was a Betazoid sociopath, for instance. It wasn't a brilliantly written episode though. The analogy fell flat.

I do wonder if they were originally going for a clumsy "the parasite is a metaphor for the Cardie occupation" thing that ended up making it to the cutting room floor.

 

[indomitable snowman]

Janeway fucked over Lt. Joe Cary. He had kids back on earth!
He dies a few weeks before endgame and future Janeway doesn't care to go far enough back to save him.
He basically disappeared since S1, probably because he messed up the coffee in the replicators or something.

 

[Still Exceptional]

If you're going to use time travel to prevent anything in Voyager why not just go back and stop Voyager from ever being sent to the Delta Quadrant in the first place?

Also, it really bugs me that Star Trek Enterprise basically created a paradox. The Borg invade the Alpha Quadrant, eventually attack Earth in the past, some of those Borg get frozen and eventually thawed out which leads them to sending a message to themselves that is the cause of the Borg invasion of the Alpha Quadrant.
So in order to send that message they had to invade the Alpha Quadrant, but in order to invade the Alpha Quadrant they had to receive that message? Meaning the Borg should never have technically invaded at all because there was no message originally sent.

So here's a thought: It was the Prophets. Without the Borg invasion the events of Wolf 359 never happened, Sisko is never posted at DS9, he never makes contact with the wormhole aliens and becomes their emissary.

And to the Prophets the past, present, and future are basically the same thing. Who better to create a paradox?

 

[Fapcop]

Spoiler: More VOY ending spergery

It may not even be bad but they really fucked up the presentation. I don't care what happened offscreen to some potential future Voyager in 15 years and there's nothing the writers can really do to make me care. I care about the Voyager I've been following for 7 seasons. From the very beginning of the episode it's painfully obvious there's going to be some time travel bullshit because there always is when you see an obvious AU or timeskip scenario, so you spend half of the episode watching something happen that you just aren't invested in. And the other half that does take place on the "real" Voyager that matters to me isn't that great either. I just felt a little fucked in the ass because the grand finale of the entire show was wasted telling me something that doesn't matter and not showing me any of what I'd been anxiously hoping to see at the end.

Wtf man.

I’m sick and tired of folks pretending that VOY was good.

Spoiler: It was shit. Even the best episodes are mediocre. It was a crap rehash of TNG with god awful characters. Except maybe the Doctor. The Seven and Captain relationship was also mildly interesting but that’s it.

ENT, for all its flaws is a much better Trek show.

 

[UnKillFill]

Wtf man.

I’m sick and tired of folks pretending that VOY was good.

Spoiler: It was shit. Even the best episodes are mediocre. It was a crap rehash of TNG with god awful characters. Except maybe the Doctor. The Seven and Captain relationship was also mildly interesting but that’s it.

ENT, for all its flaws is a much better Trek show.

I would call Voyager a mediocre show with an excellent premise that it barely uses, and (eventually) 2 of the better characters from a Trek show carrying the whole thing by the end of it.

I'm of course talking about Neelix and Harry Kim.

Enterprise is slightly underrated though.

 

[WTBOnlineFather]

I'm of course talking about Neelix and Harry Kim.

You're fucking joking but unlike most characters they actually got something of an ending to their story and some of my favorite moments from the last season or two were seeing Neelix leave and Harry Kim generate unprecedented amounts of cringe when in command. Needless to say the bar wasn't very high. Several characters I liked a lot at the beginning grew steadily shittier over the course of the show, like Tom and B'Elanna who both totally lost what edge they had and became little more than a constant source of surface level relationship drama.

 

[Curzon Dax-sama]

he was FAR too kind to those ungrateful Bajoran scum

Like he said: "I SHOULD HAVE KILLED THEM ALL."

More based lines in regards to the B*jorans were never uttered.

 

[XYZpdq Jr.]

I’m sick and tired of folks pretending that VOY was good.

for me Voyager is that nug of weed that was under the carpet, but you're PRETTY sure you got all the lint out

 

[Fapcop]

last season or two were seeing Neelix leave and Harry Kim generate unprecedented amounts of cringe when in command. Needless to say the bar wasn't very high.

Harry Kim had ONE good episode. The one where he crashes the Voyager into an ice planet, and returns decades later like a hardcore outlaw. That was based, and Kim was cool for once.

Neelix was a gross disgusting pedo and should have been airlocked the minute they found out a disgusting trash hoarder tried to trick them into getting his child bride back.

Several characters I liked a lot at the beginning grew steadily shittier over the course of the show, like Tom and B'Elanna

Tom was tolerable, though his “He’s an outlaw, NO! He’s gone respectable!” Shtick got old pretty fast.

B’elanna was the fucking worst. And it’s kinda immersion breaking that with all the future tech, they can’t fix her neurotic 24-7 constant rage with 24 century prozac or something.

But yeah, VOY had the skeleton of a decent show, but threw it all out the window for a safe, meh retread of TNG, just without any cool characters. Janeway was an absolute schizophrenic, and seemed to base her decisions regarding of whether to get involved or not with local problems on what side of the bed she got up on.

EDIT: Chakotai is an absolute legend for the one time he told Janeway that they totally needed to go and rescue his (maybe) baby mama based solely on the fact that he dropped some acid. Solid decision making! I can’t even imagine what Picard would have said if Riker came in and put that turd in his lap.

“Have you gone mad, Number One?!”