Star Trek - Space: The Final Frontier

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TenMilesWide said:
Yeoh's character came out of STD Season 3's retarded time travel plotline a hundred years later than she'd gone in, so the timeline unfortunately fits.
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*mfw I check the wiki to confirm if this is true and it turns out they crowbarred the fucking Guardian of Forever into that particular STD episode*
 
Miller said:
Yep, they did the thing that Harlan Ellison told the owners to never do: use the Guardian of Forever. I'm actually surprised that his estate didn't sue them.
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Or the producers wrote the estate a check and if that didn't pan out were prepared with a Plan B like that library machine that sent Spock and McCoy into the past to hang out with Mariette Hartley.
 
Miller said:
Yep, they did the thing that Harlan Ellison told the owners to never do: use the Guardian of Forever. I'm actually surprised that his estate didn't sue them.
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Worse still, didn't they make the Guardian an avatar of an anachronistic man making Gunnian-level quips?
 
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Clown College 2nd Year said:
This makes me really happy honestly. Now queue the producers and actors blaming the bad ratings on racism, misogyny and anything other than themselves for making this shit.
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In an ideal world, every single person involved in this disaster would be fired by Paramount and they would sequester the Trek writing staff and whoever is involved with pushing the franchise forward in a room for six months to figure out where to go from here. Every single series is treading water. STD sucked, but at least got some positive critical reception before it backslid later on. PIC was not good and no one pretends like it was good. Strange New Worlds is only good because the rest of Trek has been dogshit since 2009, and is profoundly "mid" when compared to the actual franchise. Lower Decks isn't Star Trek.

What will happen is that Kurtzman gets to continue to run the franchise into the ground, and this whole Section 31 nonsense remains a shitty movie that no one ever talks about again.
 
The Gene Genie said:
In an ideal world, every single person involved in this disaster would be fired by Paramount and they would sequester the Trek writing staff and whoever is involved with pushing the franchise forward in a room for six months to figure out where to go from here. Every single series is treading water. STD sucked, but at least got some positive critical reception before it backslid later on. PIC was not good and no one pretends like it was good. Strange New Worlds is only good because the rest of Trek has been dogshit since 2009, and is profoundly "mid" when compared to the actual franchise. Lower Decks isn't Star Trek.

What will happen is that Kurtzman gets to continue to run the franchise into the ground, and this whole Section 31 nonsense remains a shitty movie that no one ever talks about again.
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I dunno man

I think we have finally reached a point where both Star Trek and Star Wars have hit rock bottom. Star Wars is bleeding money like Russell Greer at a cheap whorehouse and Star Trek has lost pretty much all of it fans base due to all the shit Paramount has been pumping out.

We have have come to a point where the suits look and say that this shit is no longer sustainable. The days of cheap credit are over and the cultural shift is starting to pick up steam and the failed show runners and writers will struggle to stay on as they'd rather be "correct" then entertaining but if there is no show then their is no job.

Rate me all the rainbows but I'm thinking they will put Star Trek into hiatus mode for a few years to allow the ill will to dissipate and try again with a new generation of writers who hopefully are actual Star Trek fans. I mean how long can even the big Hollywood Studios bleed money now that the ESG stuff is drying up and interest rates are climbing?

Trek is still a cultural milestone and that will never really go away but right now the fan base is pissed off and even worse...they are bored. Bored of the stupid, woke, wanna-be action hero's who think Star Trek is nothing more then another product to be wokified and milked.

Boredom and Apathy are the death of a franchise. If they hate it they will still talk about it and maybe tune in for hate watching but if your audience is bored and no longer even cares your dead in the water.

Section 31 didn't just bomb...it barely drew any views at all as no one even cared to Hate Watch it. Boredom and Apathy...rock bottom.
 
Sweeter and Savoury said:
I dunno man
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I do agree, I don't really know where it can go from here. Star Wars could theoretically keep this going for a little while longer, since Disney has far more of a diverse profile and can eat any flop at least for the next few years. But Paramount/CBS doesn't really have that same kind of thing. I mean how much money did they pour into Section 31? It's been in production ostensibly since COVID, and I very much doubt that Michelle Yeoh did this purely out of her love of a secondary character in STD. She's relatively high profile for an actor in 2025. She was in a Marvel movie, so that basically makes her an A-List.

The only way, at least in my view, that Star Trek can be salvaged is Kurtzman and Orci and everyone involved in STD, Picard, and Strange New Worlds getting fired and a "no-rehire" clause in their contracts so they can never work on Star Trek again, and then getting John De Lancie to do a 2 minute scene in a white room where he plays Q and snaps the last 15 years of Star Trek out of existence, and then it goes on hiatus for 5-10 years while a team of actual fans and actually good writers are brought on to start from scratch, with the general assumptions that TOS, TNG, DS9, VOY, and ENT (and their respective movies) are canon and everything else is jettisoned. Come up with something to write about that isn't a prequel, but is set 20-30 years after Voyager. Whatever comes out cannot be held up by legacy memberberry call-backs, cannot be tied-to-the-hip with previous iterations, and cannot have the Borg.

If they put me in charge I'd save Star Trek.
 
I think the best approach would be to just stop everything Trek for a while and let it lie fallow for a decade or so. Then bring it back and make it an event. when they do bring it back, get good writers who have something to say beyond Leftist talking points. Get good sci-fi and political writers to take a crack at it. Bring back open submissions from the fanbase. Decide the tone long before you start shooting (meaning, do you want episodes where the ship shows up, does stuff, and then moves on never to go back there or some kind of a serial story).

The tricky part would be deciding if they continue with the setting from TNG onward or if they want to reboot it back to the basics of Star Trek with the Enterprise visiting strange new worlds, Kirk, Spock, and McCoy basically representing Logic (Spock), Passion (McCoy), and Intellect (Kirk) and the other actors are basically recurring bit characters instead of making it full of B stories and an ensemble show.
 
Everything Herr Kurtzmann has done during these last eight years is falling upwards, I guess it really does have its benefits when you belong to the right tribe in hollywood.
And there's still the Starfleet Academy show coming up than nobody asked for...if they don't fire him after that, they won't fire him at all and will just let his contract expire normally.

I won't watch any of that or this movie, because from what I've seen and heard, it's just the same shit as STD again, right down to every bit of piece of sets, lightning and worst of all, the typical shitass bad robot cynical writing with MCU like dialog.
 
Sweeter and Savoury said:
why are all these Latino actors so awesome?
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non-american actors are all taught to take any role you can get and aren't paid as well or as respected so they never usually get the huge egos that american actors do. Anthony Hopkins basically says yes to anything, most of them do. they do it for the love of the game.
TenMilesWide said:
Yeoh's character came out of STD Season 3's retarded time travel plotline a hundred years later than she'd gone in, so the timeline unfortunately fits.
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and no angst? another thing about trek is that somehow very little socially or culturally changes in the span of a quarter millennia. which is ironic considering Abe Lincoln's own faux pas when he too went 250 years into the future. ( i know thats not technically what happened but still)
The Gene Genie said:
f it was able to tell the stories it wanted in a 20-25 episode season than in the 10 episodes it gets.
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its crazy how few streaming shows the last 5 years have managed to knock out more than an 8 episode average. another funny thing is that despite there being triple the amount of tv shows as there were in 2010, the episode count average is a quarter of what it was. its common to see 5 or 6 episode seasons now, and to take 2 years to make them.

at that point why not make a fucking movie!
 
Sweeter and Savoury said:
Section 31 didn't just bomb...it barely drew any views at all as no one even cared to Hate Watch it. Boredom and Apathy...rock bottom.
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I wanted to hate watch it, I really did. But other people who have more time on their hands already did, and jewtube reviewers reached the consensus that I shouldn't bother, so I won't...
 
William Murderface said:
I think the best approach would be to just stop everything Trek for a while and let it lie fallow for a decade or so. Then bring it back and make it an event. when they do bring it back, get good writers who have something to say beyond Leftist talking points. Get good sci-fi and political writers to take a crack at it. Bring back open submissions from the fanbase.
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While you are right that open submissions are necessary, I'm not as optimistic on getting good writers because of how the typical English BA is taught. They're not really the Shakespeare autists they used to be, but full SJWs. Writing prose is also an art form that I increasingly see people be bad at outside of ideology. When an example of non-woke novelists is Razorfist, that's a serious lack of seeds.

This problem spills over to acting too. We don't have good character actors anymore. No Andrew J Robinson, No Robert O'Reilly, no James Sloyan, etc. Actors that can melt into roles. They're either meant to be celebrities like Zendaya or overpaid extras without the gravitas.
 
Miller said:
Yep, they did the thing that Harlan Ellison told the owners to never do: use the Guardian of Forever. I'm actually surprised that his estate didn't sue them.
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His last wife died in 2018 and he never had any children. Probably for the best as he was an angry manlet kike. J Michael Straczynski (sp) was his literary executor so at least we sort of got the Last Dangerous Visions, finally.

Miller said:
Yeah but that's because Ellison trusted DC Fontana.
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It was also bar none the best episode of the animated series.
 
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