Star Trek - Space: The Final Frontier

[Captain Syrup]

too bad they're not the big brain guys

 

[Ultraman Orb Dark]

I know Star Trek would never do this because it would go directly against the creator's intent, but it was a huge mistake to look at religion as something to be done away with when hyperdrive is invented or whatever.

It's weird on so many levels. Not only was there an episode where Kirk and his crew met a Greek god, Deep Space Nine confirmed that the Bajoran religion (to say nothing about how their faith helped them through the Cardassian occupation) is real. For fuck's sake, the commander of Starfleet's most important space station is basically Space Moses.

And that's not even getting into other spiritual races like the Vulcans, Klingons, or Betazoids, whose beliefs are rarely questioned.

I think they didn't know what to do with such an open-ended setting after the first season.

It says a lot where there was an entire episode made to acknowledge how underutilized the Maquis stuff was.

Kirk really only listened to Spock, and Janeway listened to nobody, not even her future self.

Remember the episode where the EMH had a mental breakdown, and her solution was to wipe his memory?

The Prophets start making sense when you view them as giant assholes or reddit mods.

Or guys playing a game of chess with the Pah-Wraiths.

tbh there's not many god-like aliens in Trek that aren't massive pricks at some point

I think my favorite example of this is Trelane, mostly because they explain his behavior as a child playing games before his parents tell him to cut it off and stop bothering the locals.

 

[XYZpdq Jr.]

It's weird on so many levels. Not only was there an episode where Kirk and his crew met a Greek god, Deep Space Nine confirmed that the Bajoran religion (to say nothing about how their faith helped them through the Cardassian occupation) is real. For fuck's sake, the commander of Starfleet's most important space station is basically Space Moses.

And that's not even getting into other spiritual races like the Vulcans, Klingons, or Betazoids, whose beliefs are rarely questioned.

It says a lot where there was an entire episode made to acknowledge how underutilized the Maquis stuff was.

Remember the episode where the EMH had a mental breakdown, and her solution was to wipe his memory?

Or guys playing a game of chess with the Pah-Wraiths.

I think my favorite example of this is Trelane, mostly because they explain his behavior as a child playing games before his parents tell him to cut it off and stop bothering the locals.

Peter David has a good book where Q is stuck babysitting/mentoring Trelane

 

[Captain Syrup]

Peter David has a good book where Q is stuck babysitting/mentoring Trelane

Much of William Campbell’s Star Trek career happened off camera. He was supposed to be a recurring foil for Kirk. Instead, he showed up twice and made no impact. He was Koloth, in case you forgot. Everyone did. He also led “The Great Tribble Hunt,” according to the wiki.

 

[Hey Johnny Bravo]

Much of William Campbell’s Star Trek career happened off camera. He was supposed to be a recurring foil for Kirk. Instead, he showed up twice and made no impact. He was Koloth, in case you forgot. Everyone did. He also led “The Great Tribble Hunt,” according to the wiki.

The Klingons were right about tribbles.

 

[AvonHertz]

William Campbell did reprise his role as Trelane in the game Star Trek: Judgement Rites. No longer interested in the Victorian era, Trelane has since become heavily interested in WWI. He's introduced flying his own replica Fokker Dr. I triplane in space just to mess with Kirk. Soon after Kirk and company end up back on Gothos which is now modeled on WWI Germany, be it a clean, idealized looking version. In order to stop him, Kirk makes Trelane visualize a true accurate depiction of an area of trench warfare which makes him too uncomfortable to enjoy his little facade and he frees Kirk and the rest before moving on.

 

[Miller]

He also got to play Koloth again in DS9.

Kate Mulgrew is a good actress but the writers for that show got a little too "girl power." I think they didn't know what to do with such an open-ended setting after the first season.

Wasn't Janeway pretty much Jeri Taylor's self-insert?

 

[BIG BILL HELL'S]

The Prophets start making sense when you view them as giant assholes or reddit mods.

Well, they lived in a giant asshole, that's for sure.

 

[Friendly Primarina]

Remember the episode where the EMH had a mental breakdown, and her solution was to wipe his memory?

To be fair, she listened to her pet project in the end.

I ask this as someone whose Trek experience is limited to some of TNG and most of VOY. How does Starfleet deal with AI and "synthetic lifeforms" that go rogue?

Janeway was faced with the ship's sole doctor having regular breakdowns and endangering crew members. I like shitting on her as much as the next man but her actions were reasonable from a pragmatic point of view, even if they turned out to be wrong in the end.

Be honest, if you were faced with either erasing the EMH's memory, or to risk leaving the entire crew's medical needs in the hands of Tom Paris, what would you have done?

 

[Hey Johnny Bravo]

Wasn't Janeway pretty much Jeri Taylor's self-insert?

Correct. It's honestly a big reason why the show stunk.

Be honest, if you were faced with either erasing the EMH's memory, or to risk leaving the entire crew's medical needs in the hands of Tom Paris, what would you have done?

I would have told the Caretaker to fuck himself and used the array to get back. Prime Directive, baby. Not my clowns, not my circus. I do not care about the Kazon, the Ocampa, or the Caretaker's bullshit. My first duty is to my crew. Janeway was a bad captain, full stop. "Nooo, I can't let this race I don't know about get access to advanced alien technology that the more advanced alien did nothing to protect! I have to possibly contaminate this entire sector with Federation technology by staying and doing something that will also strand my whole crew! I'm Janeway, such a great captain!" Nah, bitch, you suck and we're gonna let you know it.

 

[XYZpdq Jr.]

in the hands of Tom Paris, what would you have done?

probably depends on which medical tv shows he's been watching

 

[Flexo]

Peter David has a good book where Q is stuck babysitting/mentoring Trelane

Huh? Are you talking about Q Squared or a different one?

https://memory-beta.fandom.com/wiki/Q-Squared

In that one Trelane became a supergod and Q had to get 3 different TNG crews to help him do something about it.

I remember that book VERY well because...

Spoiler

It is revealed he is named "Trelane" because his super form "straddled 3 realities."

Of those 3 realities, we had TNG classic. The alt-TNG of Yesterday's Enterprise. And finally a completely unique TNG that Peter David made up where Data was a robot brain in a human body and since Jack Crusher lived, Wesley Crusher died in order to drive Beverly into Picard's arms.

That's not a joke, Trelane literally says this to Jack Crusher at one point.

(Checking, oh right it starts off with Q babysitting Trelane.)

 

[XYZpdq Jr.]

Huh? Are you talking about Q Squared or a different one?

https://memory-beta.fandom.com/wiki/Q-Squared

In that one Trelane became a supergod and Q had to get 3 different TNG crews to help him do something about it.

I remember that book VERY well because...

Spoiler

It is revealed he is named "Trelane" because his super form "straddled 3 realities."

Of those 3 realities, we had TNG classic. The alt-TNG of Yesterday's Enterprise. And finally a completely unique TNG that Peter David made up where Data was a robot brain in a human body and since Jack Crusher lived, Wesley Crusher died in order to drive Beverly into Picard's arms.

That's not a joke, Trelane literally says this to Jack Crusher at one point.

(Checking, oh right it starts off with Q babysitting Trelane.)

I forgot that bit but yes that's the one

 

[Ultraman Orb Dark]

To be fair, she listened to her pet project in the end.

I ask this as someone whose Trek experience is limited to some of TNG and most of VOY. How does Starfleet deal with AI and "synthetic lifeforms" that go rogue?

Janeway was faced with the ship's sole doctor having regular breakdowns and endangering crew members. I like shitting on her as much as the next man but her actions were reasonable from a pragmatic point of view, even if they turned out to be wrong in the end.

Be honest, if you were faced with either erasing the EMH's memory, or to risk leaving the entire crew's medical needs in the hands of Tom Paris, what would you have done?

Fair point there. I'd say it's erasing all records of a crewmember's existence and ordering everyone to never talk about her that puzzles me.

I would have told the Caretaker to fuck himself and used the array to get back. Prime Directive, baby. Not my clowns, not my circus. I do not care about the Kazon, the Ocampa, or the Caretaker's bullshit. My first duty is to my crew. Janeway was a bad captain, full stop. "Nooo, I can't let this race I don't know about get access to advanced alien technology that the more advanced alien did nothing to protect! I have to possibly contaminate this entire sector with Federation technology by staying and doing something that will also strand my whole crew! I'm Janeway, such a great captain!" Nah, bitch, you suck and we're gonna let you know it.

There's this really good Voyager rewrite fanfic that does a better job explaining why the ship can't get home. The Caretaker says that the process of sending a single ship back to the Alpha Quadrant would take a half-hour, and even if the Caretaker didn't have one foot in the grave, the Kazon are still trying to blow it up.

probably depends on which medical tv shows he's been watching

"Don't worry, Captain. I've seen this on an ancient Earth program called General Hospital."

 

[XYZpdq Jr.]

"Don't worry, Captain. I've seen this on an ancient Earth program called General Hospital."

Tom accidentally breaks the ship's computer trying to make all the General Hospital Extended Universe at once on the holodeck

 

[Flexo]

There's this really good Voyager rewrite fanfic that does a better job explaining why the ship can't get home. The Caretaker says that the process of sending a single ship back to the Alpha Quadrant would take a half-hour, and even if the Caretaker didn't have one foot in the grave, the Kazon are still trying to blow it up.

The fix for the issue is easy: you just don't have Tuvok "figure out" how to work the caretaker tech. He needed more time, and the Kazon weren't going to give it, etc etc.

The problem with that (as SFDebris pointed out) is that the writers clearly wanted Janeway to freely make the choice to stay in the Delta quadrant showing her as a "strong woman" and not have her hand be "forced" in any way as that would undercut her.

So what they really should have done was lean into the fact that the caretaker's tech really wrecked the ship and crew in the first place and have Tuvok point out if they use it, there's no guarantee everyone would make it. So then Janeway has to decide between taking a highly risky option that might kill everyone or go with the safe option of being stranded. Have her mention grabbing some tech off the array and downloading as much info as they can before blowing it up and then it would be understandable that she went with the "safe" option with a belief they would soon solve the caretaker tech and get back home anyway.

But then if it was up to me, I would have made Janeway the first officer "about" to leave and go command her own ship when she is on "one last mission" with Voyager (part of it being a send off, part of it picking up Tuvok who will join her on her new ship) when everything happens and she gets thrown into a command she wasn't expecting.

 

[UnKillFill]

Correct. It's honestly a big reason why the show stunk.

I would have told the Caretaker to fuck himself and used the array to get back. Prime Directive, baby. Not my clowns, not my circus. I do not care about the Kazon, the Ocampa, or the Caretaker's bullshit. My first duty is to my crew. Janeway was a bad captain, full stop. "Nooo, I can't let this race I don't know about get access to advanced alien technology that the more advanced alien did nothing to protect! I have to possibly contaminate this entire sector with Federation technology by staying and doing something that will also strand my whole crew! I'm Janeway, such a great captain!" Nah, bitch, you suck and we're gonna let you know it.

Screw the Ocampa, I wanna go home.

 

[Hey Johnny Bravo]

Anyone else think Trelane looks like Robbie Rotten?

The problem with that (as SFDebris pointed out) is that the writers clearly wanted Janeway to freely make the choice to stay in the Delta quadrant showing her as a "strong woman" and not have her hand be "forced" in any way as that would undercut her.

Yeah, this is the problem. In their attempt to make Janeway look like a strong character, they made one of the most stereotypical woman moments in fiction. It doesn't make sense why a Federation officer would break the Prime Directive like this, it doesn't make sense why a captain would strand her own crew like this, and it's not even the right moral or ethical decision because it is not the responsibility of Janeway or anyone aboard the Voyager (or the Val Jean, for that matter) to clean up the Caretaker's mess.

Screw the Ocampa, I wanna go home.

 

[XYZpdq Jr.]

Screw the Ocampa, I wanna go home.

those aren't mutually exclusive ideas

Trelane looks like Robbie Rotten?

I do... now....

 

[JustSomeDong]

Screw the Ocampa, I wanna go home.

I didn't know I needed this in my life until today, but I very much do.