Star Trek - Space: The Final Frontier

[Curzon Dax-sama]

The only two episodes that made me go "WHAT THE FUCK, MAN?" were "Family Business" (specifically the part when Rom asks his mother to get naked) and "Profit and Lace" (when Quark troons out for a minute).

Season 7 is frustrating for me. No, not because of Ezri (she cute). It's post-Waltz Dukat, his space-Satan shenanigan, the space-Karen and all that bullshit...

 

[Hey Johnny Bravo]

Season 7 is frustrating for me. No, not because of Ezri (she cute). It's post-Waltz Dukat, his space-Satan shenanigan, the space-Karen and all that bullshit...

I loved Louise Fletcher. My wife hates Kai Winn episodes because she hates her so much. That's talent. When Kai Winn finally died, my wife was like "good, fuck that bitch." She was genuinely pleased to see that bitch die.

 

[Drag-on Knight 91873]

Season 7 is frustrating for me. No, not because of Ezri (she cute). It's post-Waltz Dukat, his space-Satan shenanigan, the space-Karen and all that bullshit...

Because Behr didn't realize everything around Dukat up to that point made him a sympathetic character.

 

[Curzon Dax-sama]

I loved Louise Fletcher. My wife hates Kai Winn episodes because she hates her so much. That's talent. When Kai Winn finally died, my wife was like "good, fuck that bitch." She was genuinely pleased to see that bitch die.

Yeeah, Kai Winn was the King Joffrey of the 90s.

Because Behr didn't realize everything around Dukat up to that point made him a sympathetic character.

Simple answer: let him fail in a redemption arc, because he has gone insane, but not comically evil. That's what I would have done: have Dukat join Damar's attempt to undermine and sabotage the Dominion and have him fuck that up, because he thinks he's still in the zone and can't be wrong, ever. That makes things worse for the rebels to plan and eventually Damar has to make a choice: either get fucked without lube by Weyoun - or getting rid off Dukat for good to save Cardassia's future.

 

[XYZpdq Jr.]

Is there a post in the thread or somewhere that is a guide to Star Trek watching for first-timers? I watched TOS a few years back, might give it another go-around. Upon hearing that the time war is a major plot point in ENT, I don't really want to continue it. I've seen bits of Voyager, and bits of TNG, but I stopped with Wesley doing the simulations.

EDIT: I understand that the OP and first few pages talk about it, but maybe that's changed in the last 12 years

just watch the damn show

but yeah Wynn is def well into "go away" heat

 

[Hey Johnny Bravo]

Simple answer: let him fail in a redemption arc, because he has gone insane, but not comically evil. That's what I would have done: have Dukat join Damar's attempt to undermine and sabotage the Dominion and have him fuck that up, because he thinks he's still in the zone and can't be wrong, ever. That makes things worse for the rebels to plan and eventually Damar has to make a choice: either get fucked without lube by Weyoun - or getting rid off Dukat for good to save Cardassia's future.

Behr is just assmad that, even with all his rewrites, people still like Dukat. Marc Alaimo is just that good of an actor.

 

[XYZpdq Jr.]

Behr is just assmad that, even with all his rewrites, people still like Dukat. Marc Alaimo is just that good of an actor.

Dukat is just that right

 

[Uncle Buck]

The only two episodes that made me go "WHAT THE FUCK, MAN?" were "Family Business" (specifically the part when Rom asks his mother to get naked) and "Profit and Lace" (when Quark troons out for a minute).

The episode with Worf on Risa with guest-star Monte Markham was easily the worst of the series - worse than even Profit and Lace. Let He Who is Without Sin… I believe it’s called. Ishka episodes were never great but Brunt was comedy latinum in Family Business and the episode gave Quark some great backstory while setting up the affair with the Nagus.

 

[Hey Johnny Bravo]

>be me
>even with the time warp shenanigans, those three weeks aboard the William Henry Harrison were the cushiest in my entire career
>three square meals a day, holosuites, working sonic showers, replication center and a range to play with different weapons, salon, the works
>no wonder Starfleet types are so dumb, they are on vacation the whole time
>appears I have some minor celebrity among Starfleet officers for beating that Zakdorn at Strategema
>explain how I won
>a few officers challenge me to Strategema and I show them how I won
>one of them doesn't get it, starts babbling about 19th century actresses for some reason
>ship stops at Utopia Planitia for repairs and I finally go to Camp Lejeune for my training
>PT all day, every day, until you fucking die
>do shitloads of swimming in random media, including weird ass methane goo
>still doesn't smell as bad as targ shit
>do tons of EVA drills to train for ship infiltration
>vomit a few times in the suit, have to complete the exercise in my own filth and then clean it all myself
>learn more about tying knots and taking photographs than I ever wanted to know
>most of the other candidates are Vulcans because the physical and mental demands are grueling
>Andorian bails in Phase 1 when PT is too demanding
>one human gets rhabdo and fails out, another one thought he suffered a leg fracture but it turned out his leg bones were about to disintegrate so he had to quit
>have so much real-world first-aid experience from my posting on Qo'Nos that TCCC is a breeze
>play with every type of weapon and explosive known to the Federation
>even learn a little home chemistry on how to improvise explosives
>take language course on Romulan, it's apparently very similar to Welsh
>nail the simulated operations in early phases because I've done so many training simulations already
>direct action simulation at end of Phase 2 has us sabotage an enemy listening post, return with any intel, and don't leave any trace that the Federation was there
>my team accomplishes the objective, have to improvise an explosive so no one can go "hurr durr this is a Federation compound"
>have a prisoner at the end, waiting for runabout to get us out
>runabout suffers a random malfunction, can't handle the weight of everyone
>two Vulcan team members, one of them a CPT, have in-depth conversation about how to solve the problem by min-maxing gear, modifying the runabout's tractor beam to fuck with the gravity (where have I heard that before), removing systems from the runabout to lessen the load
>just tons of ridiculous babble and shit we don't have time for
>runabout arrives and no solution presents itself
>enemies are closing in
>the Vulcan CPT offers to stay behind and evade capture so that we can escape with the prisoner
>I roll my eyes, kill the prisoner, c'mon you putzes let's go
>CPT Magnanimous is fucking pissed and the other Vulcan is appalled
>instructors ask me why I did that
>"CPT Magnanimous wanted to stay behind, that's stupid, the prisoner was not a VIP, and I'm not risking the whole mission for extra credit"
>instructors accept my answer, CPT Magnanimous is even more pissed
>doesn't matter, onto Phase 3: irregular warfare
>turns out I'm a very good terrorist
>final simulation is one giant LARP that we're light infantry operating quietly to train Romulan dissidents in the Neutral Zone
>glad I spent so much time learning Romulan
>basically live like an animal evading simulated Romulans trying to catch us while we train, arm, and support dissidents
>CPT Magnanimous spends the whole time with a chip in his shoulder about me shooting a fake prisoner
>whenever he has a shitty comment, I quote a Rule of Acquisition or just make one up to annoy him
>no moral conundrum for this exercise, finish it up, I'm a Raider now
>given orders to join CPT Love Slave's unit
longest year of my life
I actually wrote this one already and wanted to post it today, but the George Droid thing was too funny to let go

 

[Curzon Dax-sama]

Behr is just assmad that, even with all his rewrites, people still like Dukat. Marc Alaimo is just that good of an actor.

Alaimo isn't just, he's great. Anyone could have been Bashir or Dax, but there is only one who could have pulled off Dukat convincingly. Behr can touch grass.

The episode with Worf on Risa with guest-star Monte Markham was easily the worst of the series - worse than even Profit and Lace. Let He Who is Without Sin… I believe it’s called.

I like it, for the single reason that Worf tries to be based and his gf doesn't like it, because for once it isn't about her. God damnit, can Jadzia be annoying at times (and I more often than not like her).

 

[Hey Johnny Bravo]

I like it, for the single reason that Worf tries to be based and his gf doesn't like it, because for once it isn't about her. God damnit, can Jadzia be annoying at times (and I more often than not like her).

I feel very bad for Terry Farrell because she got schizophrenic direction. In some parts she was supposed to be a young woman, while in other parts she was supposed to be this super wise and detached alien thing who has several lifetimes of experience.

 

[Curzon Dax-sama]

I feel very bad for Terry Farrell because she got schizophrenic direction. In some parts she was supposed to be a young woman, while in other parts she was supposed to be this super wise and detached alien thing who has several lifetimes of experience.

The single biggest problem with Jadzia is: they never gave her a compelling reason to be on DS9. Anyone else had: Kira, Sisko and O'Brien were ordered to by their respective chains of command (in case of Sisko and Kira: to politically move them away to a space gulag, before they start murdering people), Bashir wanted to taste the life on the frontier, Odo was already there as part of the previous admin, Quark and Rom had the bar and so on. But Dax? She had no reason, at all. Now, given how weird Trill society and culture is, they could have written a reason very easily, in particular in combination with what kind of cheeky misfit bastard the Dax symbiont apparently is: she wants to stay out of Trill, because she's now a massive rule breaker. Other than that: Dax wants to do her own thing and not just be another meatsack pilot for a bellyworm.

 

[Captain Syrup]

Is there a post in the thread or somewhere that is a guide to Star Trek watching for first-timers? I watched TOS a few years back, might give it another go-around. Upon hearing that the time war is a major plot point in ENT, I don't really want to continue it. I've seen bits of Voyager, and bits of TNG, but I stopped with Wesley doing the simulations.

The original Star Trek is a beast unto itself. It's weird, it's inconsistent, and it is never, ever boring. It doesn’t resemble any other Star Trek, even the films with the original cast.

TNG fares better, though Geordi and Beverly are unfortunately dead weight, which means the writers leaned heavily on Picard and Data, often in plots that didn’t suit either of them. The occasional original series cameos (McCoy, Spock, Scotty) actually work better than they have any right to. Which is more than I can say for a lot of the regular cast.

And if you want to understand certain storylines in DS9 and Voyager, yes, you’ll have to slog through all of TNG, including the Maquis arc. It starts as a metaphor about land acknowledgments and ends as a generic subplot about rebellious space punks. This is also where the Washington Generals Romulans emerge from hibernation after losing to Kirk, only to continue losing to everyone else.

And then there are kids. Not just Wesley, but an entire fleet of them, Yes, the Enterprise-D has a daycare. Kid-centric episodes are worth skipping, especially the one where the crew literally turns into children.

DS9 spends a couple of seasons cleaning up TNG’s detritus and pretending to care about the Maquis before Worf shows up in season four and characters improve. It's a noticeable pivot. That said, feel free to skip every Mirror Universe episode after the first one. They’re shameless filler, dumb slash fics with bad wigs.

Voyager is TNG, again. The same problems, amplified. Too many forgettable characters. Too many sentimental kids. Too many Maquis. A shocking number of TNG characters show up, despite the whole “we’re lost on the other side of the galaxy” thing. Janeway and the EMH end up doing Picard and Data karaoke most of the time. Some episodes work but they’re islands in a sea of aggressively okay television. If you’re a completionist, go for it. If not, you’re not missing much.

 

[Hey Johnny Bravo]

DS9 spends a couple of seasons cleaning up TNG’s detritus and pretending to care about the Maquis before Worf shows up in season four and characters improve. It's a noticeable pivot. That said, feel free to skip every Mirror Universe episode after the first one. They’re shameless filler, dumb slash fics with bad wigs.

I think DS9 picks up in Season 2. The mirror universe episodes are cool because you get to see Colm Meaney be a bit gritty. Meaney is a fantastic villain in other roles. The first mirror universe episode is worth it to see Odo get fucking vaporized, it was a very cool special effects scene. I also thought Jennifer dying a second time and both Ben and Jake sharing grief was kinda heartfelt. Really any Benjamin-Jake episodes give me major feels, especially "The Visitor" which made me cry the first time I saw it.

 

[JustSomeDong]

Is there a post in the thread or somewhere that is a guide to Star Trek watching for first-timers? I watched TOS a few years back, might give it another go-around. Upon hearing that the time war is a major plot point in ENT, I don't really want to continue it. I've seen bits of Voyager, and bits of TNG, but I stopped with Wesley doing the simulations.

EDIT: I understand that the OP and first few pages talk about it, but maybe that's changed in the last 12 years

Here's a chronology checklist from around 2017. Every episode and movie, ordered by Stardate. I went looking in my archives recently to find a pre nutrek version for myself. It does have the first few reboot movies at the end, unfortunately. And some nuTrek reference notes. This was the only old copy I have yet found, but I have some old drives I haven't gone through, still. I may have a pre Abrams version.

I promised to try to find it a fair while back in the thread. Sorry it took me so long.

 

[Captain Syrup]

I also thought Jennifer dying a second time and both Ben and Jake sharing grief was kinda heartfelt.

Crossing universes is easier than time travel, which at least requires a mystical Orb. Sisko gets kidnapped because his double died. This happens more than once. They keep black-bagging him like he’s responsible for someone else’s revolutionary incompetence. It’s a weird emotional hostage situation that no one notices.

Jennifer is a rebel leader. The show’s solution to making her look less like a baffled civilian is giving her a giant badge and a bun. Jennifer goes over Sisko’s head to manipulate Jake. When evil Kira did this, it was a capital crime!

The Terran Rebellion is undefined and boring. Are they winning? Losing? And I still have no idea why we’re supposed to root for the Terrans. They’re just bad at being fascists now. Comparing them to the Bajorans is like comparing Boers to the French Resistance.

Jennifer dies again, because that’s her only consistent trait.

 

[Hey Johnny Bravo]

Crossing universes is easier than time travel, which at least requires a mystical Orb. Sisko gets kidnapped because his double died. This happens more than once. They keep black-bagging him like he’s responsible for someone else’s revolutionary incompetence. It’s a weird emotional hostage situation that no one notices.

They cast soap actors for Jennifer and Bareil because the plots are soap operas. Jennifer is a rebel leader. The show’s solution to making her look less like a baffled civilian is giving her a giant badge and a bun. Jennifer goes over Sisko’s head to manipulate Jake. When evil Kira did this, it was a capital crime!

The Terran Rebellion is undefined and boring. Are they winning? Losing? And I still have no idea why we’re supposed to root for the Terrans. They’re just bad at being fascists now. Comparing them to the Bajorans is like comparing Boers to the French Resistance.

Jennifer dies again, because that’s her only consistent trait.

View attachment 7434305

Hey, fair enough.

 

[BIG BILL HELL'S]

>take language course on Romulan, it's apparently very similar to Welsh

I'll admit that I laughed at this harder than I probably should have.

 

[Hey Johnny Bravo]

I'll admit that I laughed at this harder than I probably should have.

Not only is it a callback to my earlier sperging about Welsh, but Romulan really does sound a little bit like Welsh.

 

[Flexo]

We talked about Quark's podcasting career but not his rap album.