Star Trek - Space: The Final Frontier

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TOS using whatever costumes they had a chance and still being considered the best Trek by many is proof that "cringe" ain't the problem and never was, either for ST or any other name.

Captain Syrup said:
Before they landed on "Trials and Tribble-ations", one of the anniversary pitches was to have the DS9 crew beam down to the gangster world from "A Piece of the Action" only to discover the monkey-see-monkey-do aliens had taken it way too far: now they're cosplaying as Starfleet, like a stealth parody of Trekkies.
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I would have loved that even when I also loved the actual episode.

And I join the people saying they should have just got Worf wearing the og Klingon makeup and not say a word about it. They really lost the chance to make something really funny.

Speaking of, this episode kinda proves what I dislike the most about the JJ movies. DS9 using actual scenes from TOS shows well that this is the past time for them and that it's expected that their technology looks old and outdated compared to them living like 100 years in the future. Just compare the tech we have now vs what we used in the 80s, only 40 years ago.

JJ Trek looks too modern and it's hard to get immersed knowing their tech looks way too futuristic and new compared to even Voyager, the most recent of the Treks. I'm not saying they should have used the same sets and gadgets from the 60s show and movies, but even when it's the future, it should feel like the "past" as Old Spock is there too.
 
Tasty Tatty said:
JJ Trek looks too modern and it's hard to get immersed knowing their tech looks way too futuristic and new compared to even Voyager, the most recent of the Treks. I'm not saying they should have used the same sets and gadgets from the 60s show and movies, but even when it's the future, it should feel like the "past" as Old Spock is there too.
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This is why I think Strange New Worlds better executed a modern take on the Enterprise bridge than the Abrams movies.
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ToroidalBoat said:
Did they do that in those episodes where they went to that "sanctuary city" in the early 21st century?
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That’s one of those two-parters that would’ve been better as a movie, because as episodes it’s too broken up. Here's Kira and O’Brien doing Chekov type comedy in Castro Street.

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Meanwhile Dax is in what feels like Pretty Woman. She literally gets found unconscious in an alley by some corporate suit who’s like, “You’re hot, come to my business lunches." Where are we, Ferenginar?

Then you’ve got Sisko and Bashir rubber-necking around the Bell Riots, Star Trek is one cunt hair away from turning into Judge Dredd.

You can tell the writers were sweating trying to give everyone “something to do” because it's in their contracts.
 
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Tasty Tatty said:
TOS using whatever costumes they had a chance and still being considered the best Trek by many is proof that "cringe" ain't the problem and never was, either for ST or any other name.


I would have loved that even when I also loved the actual episode.

And I join the people saying they should have just got Worf wearing the og Klingon makeup and not say a word about it. They really lost the chance to make something really funny.

Speaking of, this episode kinda proves what I dislike the most about the JJ movies. DS9 using actual scenes from TOS shows well that this is the past time for them and that it's expected that their technology looks old and outdated compared to them living like 100 years in the future. Just compare the tech we have now vs what we used in the 80s, only 40 years ago.

JJ Trek looks too modern and it's hard to get immersed knowing their tech looks way too futuristic and new compared to even Voyager, the most recent of the Treks. I'm not saying they should have used the same sets and gadgets from the 60s show and movies, but even when it's the future, it should feel like the "past" as Old Spock is there too.
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Either have Worf as an OG Klingon or just have the one liner about "we dont like to talk about it" as a joke and leave it at that.

As far as the sets. costumes, props etc. either looking too cheap or too advanced, I think there is a sweet spot between looking like a 1960s Burbank studio with painted plywood walls or an iStore. The problem is twofold though. 1) real life technology advances and keeps outpacing what we thought the future would be like and 2) the needs of the production crew versus what the directors want are always clashing. It's all a balancing act that a lot of the fanbase forget to take into account. It's all there to support a story and look neat in the process. It's not a roadmap to the future.
 
Ultraman Orb Dark said:
This is why I think Strange New Worlds better executed a modern take on the Enterprise bridge than the Abrams movies.
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Best looking Star Trek bridge is the Enterprise D one. It's simultaneously late 1980s looking, yet centuries-from-now futuristic also.

The Orville's bridge looks nice too.

Captain Syrup said:
You can tell the writers were sweating trying to give everyone “something to do” because it's in their contracts.
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So they had contracts saying they gotta appear in every episode?
 
ToroidalBoat said:
So they had contracts saying they gotta appear in every episode?
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Being an ensemble show is the biggest problem the shows from TNG onward have faced. With TOS you had some problem, Kirk, Spock, and McCoy dealt with it, and you had supporting cast show up as needed. This episode has Scotty, the next two episodes don't. Sulu isn't in this episode, he's in the next one as a semi-important player. They were there to either move the plot along or provide coloring to the show universe.

When TNG came along, you still had Picard//Riker/Data but they also pushed the other characters on us and ended up with those A Story/B Story basic structures where you essentially had every main member showing up in episodes whether they were really needed or not. They even took away from the main stories to have side stories just so the other members of the cast had something to do.

The big issue for me is it leads those lesser parts into being somehow just as important as the leads and some fans, and some cast members, just don't get the difference. Shatner and Nimoy were the stars of the show. Doohan and Takei were glorified extras, and a whole lot of people forgot that, including some of the cast. Of course the stars of the shows counted lines and demanded certain monologs were moved from a bit player to the star. That's what show stars do, But far too many of the fan base don't understand that and it ends up vilifying the star, especially when one of the "Other Four" pipe up about how mean Shatner was because he acted like the show's star.
 
Takei always was a little faggot, even in the 60's. Sulu just was not that interesting a character but Takei wanted to push him into the spotlight.

For what I would say? How would knowing more about Sulu improve the character or make an impact on the story? Sulu shoots things when Kirk tells him too, that's it. He's the proto Worf but without the fish out of water thing going on. Takie should be on his knee's thanking Gene for giving him a lifelong gig that make him both rich and famous but instead he constantly bitches about how he's not given the spotlight he feels he deserves.

It sure doesn't help that George is a massive whiny bitch these days and I can only imagine how bad he must have been on set.

Funny how Shatner never really said anything bad about any of his co-stars, it was always the others taking pot shots at him.

Expect for Kelly, everyone fucking loved Kelly. He was just an awesome guy both on set, at the conventions and when interacting with the fans. That's why I'm a McCoy simp, the man was just a treasure all a round.
 
Sweeter and Savoury said:
Takei always was a little faggot, even in the 60's.
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Takei acts like he's a huge Trek fan now. But he thought so little of Star Trek at the time that he didn't show up for much of Season 2 because he chose to appear in John Wayne movie instead. He probably thought the movie would make him an A-list star. It didn't of course and he came crawling back to Trek. I don't know why Gene granted him leave like that.
 
The top billing of TNG were always Patrick Stewart and Jonathan Frakes while the rest were "also starring". TOS didn't even mention the rest in the opening credits, only Kirk, Spock, and McCoy.

With that being said, we should have been given more Riker storylines.
 
Riker stopped being interesting after The Best of Both Worlds. He flat out asks Troi why he was still there in the XO position and not moving on. Picard says Starfleet wanted him but time is running out so shit or get off the pot. He gets made captain to replace Picard...then accepts demotion back to XO and is happy staying in Picards shadow for the next ten years. There's really not progression until he marries Troi and finally takes command of Titan. S1 and S2 Riker wanted command but saw XO of Enterprise as a stepping stone. S3 and onward Riker was just comfortable and decided to do jack shit for all those years.
 
William Murderface said:
Riker stopped being interesting after The Best of Both Worlds. He flat out asks Troi why he was still there in the XO position and not moving on. Picard says Starfleet wanted him but time is running out so shit or get off the pot. He gets made captain to replace Picard...then accepts demotion back to XO and is happy staying in Picards shadow for the next ten years. There's really not progression until he marries Troi and finally takes command of Titan. S1 and S2 Riker wanted command but saw XO of Enterprise as a stepping stone. S3 and onward Riker was just comfortable and decided to do jack shit for all those years.
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Will learned his place.
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Got Klingon Honor guard installed and working.

I forgot how much I love just the difficulty screen.
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Ok time for another DeForest Simp session because I happened to re-read some old articles that jogged my memory.

Most folks don't know but Kelly was so loved by both Shatner and Nimoy that even when the feud between the two of them was at it height they still agreed to stand together to push for Kelly.

After the success of the first 3 movies (say what you will about 3, it still made bank) the studios were obviously keen to making another. So after Shatner and Nimoy's contracts were hammered out but before they signed them the two joined together to make a demand of the studio.

They would not agree to sign for the movie unless Kelly was given a 1 million dollar signing bonus for movie IV plus his already agreed upon salary. Even when both Nimoy and Shatner couldn't stand to even be in the same room together they both worked to ensure that Kelly got what they thought was a fair deal. They also agreed kept it quiet until Kelly passed away as they did not want him to know as he was a proud man who would have probably been hurt by what he would have seen as pity.

Now that's some serious friendship right there I tell you whut.

Kelly always struggled with money issues. If you watch the first season of TOS in the order it was filmed you'll notice that Kelly was listed as "also starring" at the end rather the on the top billing with Shatner and Nimoy. Back then he was just another Scotty. A important but background character but not a focus character. It wasn't until the 5th episode "Miri" that Gene saw the potential of the Bones character. The chemistry Kelly had with both stars really did heighten the performance of all three and bring a new level of emotion into the scenes. It was that episode that cemented the idea of Spock's cold Vulcan logic vs McCoy's overt emotionally humanism as a core facet of the show. The studio thought Kirk and Spock worked fine as a dyad but Gene saw that McCoy's addition to the formula made both Kirk and Spock better, more interesting as they played off of Kelly's character lines. Thus was the triad we all love was formed.

But he never really got past that "also starring" slot.

Kelly was paid much less per show then Nimoy or Shatner and when the movies came he also was paid much less. Part of this was due to Kelly's rather shy nature, he was always reluctant to push himself forward or ask for more (get fucked George) as he understood what a blessing him getting this role was as his career was pretty much over and he was nothing more then a C list actor in truth. And part was because while he was a fan favourite he was never the draw Nimoy or Shatner was. At conventions he didn't offer paid for autographs not because he didn't need the money but because he wanted every fan who waited in line to get the opportunity to meet him and signing paid for autographs/photo's ate up too much time in his eyes.

Nimoy and Shatner were money focused and often their fans waited hours in line but time would run out before they could meet them but Kelly would power through each and every convention trying to ensure everyone that wanted to meet him did. Shatner routinely made 150K per appearance with Nimoy equally or even topping him (that's mostly the reason for the feud, Shatner's ego just couldn't stand Nimoy out pacing him sometimes) but often Kelly would only take home around 50K due to his desire to ensure all his fans got their chance to meet and greet him.

It's rather ironic that the one man who was the first to recognize what Star Trek had become and who was the first to embrace the fandom was the last man to profit from it.

I'll close with another Kelly quote;
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I'd wanted to become a doctor and couldn't, I didn't have the brains for it - yet I became the best known doctor in the galaxy somehow.​
But the number of people who came up to me and said they became a Doctor or a Nurse because of McCoy always struck a line straight through me. In the end this role allowed me help more people then I ever could have as a real doctor and I will be forever grateful for that.​
- DeForest Kelley​

Try telling Stewart to try to match that kind of dedication and humility and see what response you get.
 
California Newt said:
I love how VOY handles Q as a concept. He's not a space demon beckoning humanity toward their luciferian apotheosis like he is in TnG (which is pretty implicitly a veneer of scientism overlaying an occult worldview).

In VOY, he's just a guy with personal problems and the Q are just guys. There's nothing numinous about it.
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Q heaps existential crisis after existential crisis upon Picard yet dumps his mommy issues and babysitting duty on Janeway. Does that reveal more about Q, about Janeway vs. Picard, or about the writers?
 
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