Star Trek - Space: The Final Frontier

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Tasty Tatty said:
Remember that scene when Data told Worf he felt he wasn't respecting his authority and both ended the conversation saying basically that their workplace differences shouldn't have to affect their friendship? Current generation doesn't know that.
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This is something I've come to appreciate about the Stargate franchise. It showed a clear divide between the characters' work and personal lives.

There's an episode of SG-1 where General Hammond of Texas answers a phone call after talking with Colonel O'Neill. As soon as he learns its his granddaughter calling, he adopts a much warmer tone of voice. He even tells his granddaughter that he sees Dr. Jackson as a close friend.
It gives the audience a look into Hammond's life and how he's more than the grouchy commander of the SGC.
ditto said:
In TNG25 Worf could have gone to HR and Data would've been deactivated, pending Sensitivity Reprogramming.
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Does Starfleet even have HR, or is that something the captain does?
teriyakiburns said:
Reg is the 24th century equivalent of the AI bro who spent months prompting a perfect waifu personality and avatar, then gets so caught up in the sunk cost fallacy that he has to convince himself that what he made is what he actually wanted. Meanwhile, Riker wanders into the holodeck, demands a sexy woman, and is pleasantly surprised if he gets anything smarter than a bag of rocks.
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Reg was also a programmer by trade. He was able to create detailed holograms to interact with in his free time. Hell, his holo-addiction ended up leading to Starfleet contacting Voyager.
Quence said:
Or the highly prized overt and in-your-face workplace racism. *sigh*
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So like how McCoy grumbles about Spock's Vulcan logic?
 
I think the big difference between Minute and the holodeck versions of Crusher et al is the Bynars specifically made Minute to reel Riker in to the point that he had actual feelings for her, despite knowing she was just a hologram. Barkley's holograms were just a fantasy based on the women he saw every day. It would be like Reg seeing a redhead MILF at work (because that is the ONLY interaction he has with people at all) and then beating off to redhead MILFs on a porn site. Minute was as close to the real thing as the Bynars could make to trap Riker, but Barkley's was just a cutout of a person.

I get why the writers made the holodeck version of the main crew, namely so that we the audience would care and see the difference between the real and holodeck versions and how Barkley perceived the real versions. More than likely though, if that capability did exist, it would have been an immediate coworker and not a counsellor he sees once a week or whatever. But the audience would have no connection with Crewman Smith and probably wouldn't even care if Barkley was beating his dick to Crewman Smith's avatar like it owed him money.
 
William Murderface said:
I think the big difference between Minute and the holodeck versions of Crusher et al is the Bynars specifically made Minute to reel Riker in to the point that he had actual feelings for her, despite knowing she was just a hologram. Barkley's holograms were just a fantasy based on the women he saw every day. It would be like Reg seeing a redhead MILF at work (because that is the ONLY interaction he has with people at all) and then beating off to redhead MILFs on a porn site. Minute was as close to the real thing as the Bynars could make to trap Riker, but Barkley's was just a cutout of a person.
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I agree that the Bynars created her with intention to entertain and distract Riker, but she still has some specific programming that made her feel more real than what we often see as character in the holodeck. Riker said he tried to make her again and he said it wasn't the same. I'm guessing Riker said something like "computer, continue the program from before and give me the exact same girl" and not only it couldn't recreate her looks but couldn't do her personality either.

We are fascinated by the holodeck because it's technology we don't have, but it's still not completely reliable. Even when Geordi programmed Holo Leah with her own memories and personality, she still wasn't the same person who he later met. She was programmed to be cooperative with Geordi about her design and the real Leah was mad that it was modified. I suppose the Holodeck, despite all the jokes we make, must have some sort of safety protocol to not program a person to be too aware of their situation and cause similar troubles like how Moriarty did. Like, you can program a holo version of Riker to play your fantasy and have sex with him, but you can't create a realistic Riker because he could trick the computer (like how Wesley tricked people with Picard's voice) and mess up with the actual functioning of the ship.
 
Tasty Tatty said:
I suppose the Holodeck, despite all the jokes we make, must have some sort of safety protocol to not program a person to be too aware of their situation and cause similar troubles like how Moriarty did
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Ever watch Kamen Rider Zero-One? There was an episode that said it was illegal to create robots based off real people.
 
Tasty Tatty said:
Remember that scene when Data told Worf he felt he wasn't respecting his authority and both ended the conversation saying basically that their workplace differences shouldn't have to affect their friendship? Current generation doesn't know that.
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This is one of the most effective and moving scenes in Trek history and said exactly what it meant to be a Starfleet officer.
Tasty Tatty said:
Notice this is a moment for Worf to grow. He honestly didn't know he was disrespecting the captain and when he was told he did, he conceded he made a mistake and not only he accepted his behaviour was wrong, he made sure to tell Data that he wasn't mad and that he would never hold it against him.
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I like that while Data did not cuck out and just take backtalk from a subordinate officer, he also didn't call him out in front of the other crew and humiliate him, and explained with tact and respect what he had done wrong and how he could rectify it.

They talked it out like men, even though neither of them are human.

You just don't see this shit in nu-Trek. Even if some of the rot in nu-Trek started in vestigial form in TNG (or arguably TOS itself), they could still hit it out of the park more often than not.
teriyakiburns said:
Reg is the 24th century equivalent of the AI bro who spent months prompting a perfect waifu personality and avatar, then gets so caught up in the sunk cost fallacy that he has to convince himself that what he made is what he actually wanted. Meanwhile, Riker wanders into the holodeck, demands a sexy woman, and is pleasantly surprised if he gets anything smarter than a bag of rocks.
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Reg is another example of that character you probably couldn't have now. He's highly talented at what he does but a completely degenerate coomer who would be totally canceled in current year Trek. Instead TNG crew decide he's salvageable and help him come up to his potential, rather than come all over himself.
 
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Flexo said:
Yep. One of my favorites.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=vdiQhMPt1Zo
It's cargo cult writing. Newbies hear, "conflict creates drama" and thinks conflict has to mean people yelling at each other. And the more drama you want in a scene, the louder you have people yell.

Mature people know that conflict can be occurring even when two characters agree with each other. Or you can have a low simmering boil going on. That you need to have ups and downs in your stories (like in life) because if you try to maximize those dopamine hits every second, your audience ends up with burnout and they remember nothing of the story.
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There's a similar feeling scene in the DS9 episode Life Support.

It's the B plot of the episode, but I always enjoy these two. Jake and Nog realize they have massive cultural differences, but they are able to talk it through and come to the realization that just because they have differing opinions and upbringings, there's no reason they can't be friends.


Nu-Trek would have Jake give Nog a 10 minute speech about how he is a misogynist and an evil capitalist and how he must change his ways immediately.
 
Mussolini’s Merkin said:
Nu-Trek would have Jake give Nog a 10 minute speech about how he is a misogynist and an evil capitalist and how he must change his ways immediately.
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I don't think any of the modern Trek shows have even used the Ferengi that much. I think Prodigy had that one slave trader, but that's it.

You'd think with how much people love to rant about the evils of capitalism, the Ferengi would get more use.
 
Ultraman Orb Dark said:
I don't think any of the modern Trek shows have even used the Ferengi that much. I think Prodigy had that one slave trader, but that's it.

You'd think with how much people love to rant about the evils of capitalism, the Ferengi would get more use.
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The Ferengi are too obviously jew-coded so if you criticize them too much you'll get the ADL oy veying.

Are there any jew Starfleet officers? Even in Star Trek IV there's a pajeet captain, but not a single jew anywhere.
 
AnOminous said:
They talked it out like men, even though neither of them are human. You just don't see this shit in nu-Trek.
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TV writers operate on this iron-law belief that conflict drives drama, "twas ever thus,” as the cigarettes on Reddit love to say, but modern TV takes it to a new level where every show proudly insists these people are family while simultaneously depicting them as tarantulas who all openly hate each other.

1000093975.jpg

Star Trek, of all things, used to be the counterexample. So when Kurtzman got control, the whiplash was immediate. Suddenly every character was acting like they’re in child custody court.
 
Tasty Tatty said:
to not program a person to be too aware of their situation and cause similar troubles like how Moriarty did
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Did anything official even try to explain how that could possibly have happened? Dr Soong got put out of work by AI. Every hologram that gets left on for 15 minutes becomes self aware.

bifftango said:
The only thing that was able to clean Barclay's "contributions" off of the floors, walls, and ceilings of multiple holodecks was the atmosphere of Veridian III thanks to Troi's top-notch piloting skills.
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I like to think the humans of the future evolved beyond the need to compulsively jerk off and despite being a loser by thieir standards he wasn't up to much more than what we see.
 
Mr. Racewar1488 said:
Are they jews or Palestinians?
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I was always under the impression that they were an allegory for the Jews, what with the labor camps and focus on faith keeping them going.

I've also heard some people compare them to the Irish.
Captain Syrup said:
TV writers operate on this iron-law belief that conflict drives drama, "twas ever thus,” as the cigarettes on Reddit love to say, but modern TV takes it to a new level where every show proudly insists these people are family while simultaneously depicting them as tarantulas who all openly hate each other.

View attachment 8195523

Star Trek, of all things, used to be the counterexample. So when Kurtzman got control, the whiplash was immediate. Suddenly every character was acting like they’re in child custody court.
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On the one hand, internal conflict can flesh out the protagonists. On the other hand, too much focus on infighting can make them look incompetent. I used to be a huge Arrowverse fan, and I remember one episode where Green Arrow's fiance dumping him inadvertedly led to the end of the world.
bifftango said:
The only thing that was able to clean Barclay's "contributions" off of the floors, walls, and ceilings of multiple holodecks was the atmosphere of Veridian III thanks to Troi's top-notch piloting skills.
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And even when Geordi rebuilt the Enterprise, he double-checked it to make sure it was completely sterilized.
 
AnOminous said:
They talked it out like men, even though neither of them are human.
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The beauty of the scene is that, on top of not being human, they both were adopted and raised by humans, so they're unique not because they're outcasts, but because they're outcasts who become human by proxy. Data might not have emotions and Worf is fully a Klingon, but they are spiritual human.

AnOminous said:
Reg is another example of that character you probably couldn't have now. He's highly talented at what he does but a completely degenerate coomer who would be totally canceled in current year Trek. Instead TNG crew decide he's salvageable and help him come up to his potential, rather than come all over himself.
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There are two ways in which Nutrek could have ruined a character like Reg: either shame him for doing what he was doing in the Holodeck to teach him a lesson or to claim him as "autistic" and say that he's valid just the way he is.

The thing about Barclay is that he IS wrong and he IS a problem. He was someone who couldn't deal with his own issues. And, in a way, the main crew couldn't deal with him either: Wesley made fun of him, Geordi wanted him away, Troi wasn't connecting with him, and Riker was just annoyed by him. They all had reasons for how they treated him (and to be fair, they had to deal with other 1000 people and their problems), but they weren't seeing him as a person. It was Picard who had to remind them that they don't run from their problems and that it was also their duty to help Barclay to improve and become part of the group. During the scene where he mispronounces his name, he is honestly trying to encourage him to be better because that's also his job. It was like he was the only one who saw his humanity.

And Picard wasn't doing this randomly. He knew Barclay needed some soft encouragement in the same way he knew Sito needed to learn to stand up for herself and he had to be harsh. Barclay truly started to improve when the crew started to see him as a friend who's an oddball rather than someone who acted out of malice.
 
Tasty Tatty said:
The beauty of the scene is that, on top of not being human, they both were adopted and raised by humans, so they're unique not because they're outcasts, but because they're outcasts who become human by proxy. Data might not have emotions and Worf is fully a Klingon, but they are spiritual human.
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And you can see in that scene that while Worf is experiencing Klingon rage to some extent, he pulls it together, basically "humans up," and lets reason overcome his anger. Michael Dorn does the absolute opposite of Shatner's scenery chewing. His anger is entirely in microexpressions.

Essentially, Data overcomes his android wimpiness, while Worf chooses reason over anger, because they both understand the actual goal, for the benefit of all, is that they act in accordance with rules.
 
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