- Joined
- Sep 25, 2019
Rod Serling would have some questions about how that went down but yeah pretty much.
Star Trek - Space: The Final Frontier
- Thread starter Snorlaxative
- Start date
-
Want to keep track of this thread?
Accounts can bookmark posts, watch threads for updates, and jump back to where you stopped reading.
Create account
Rod Serling would have some questions about how that went down but yeah pretty much.
- Joined
- Sep 13, 2018
I agree that the evens/odd thing is slightly over sold, and I do agree 3 is perfectly good. 5... Has redeeming moments, it's just that the core plot is so dumb. And both 7 and 9 were at least watchable, although with regards to 9, I never want to hear Data ask Worf if his boobs were firm ever again.
I can't recommend 1 at all, though. Sorry, I just can't. 1 and 10 perfectly end-cap 8 otherwise serviceable-to-good movies as being utter trash, as far as I'm concerned. The only thing I can recommend The Motion Picture as is a sleeping aid if you've got a bout of insomnia. It's very similar to 2001 in that regard, which is unsurprising considering it was trying to be that movie.
Yeah, I'll admit that some of my distaste for Voyager is just because I was very let down by it, and really feel it squandered it's premise. It's... It's a popcorn show. It's fine, but it kinda leaves me wanting more.
Anyways, the actor I was referring to is Robert Picardo. His performance was often a bit on the silly side, but he was consistently my (and many other people's) favorite character on the show.
Jeri Ryan was fine, once you got over the fact that she was obviously meant to be eye candy - not a knock on her, but on the directors. Her and her skin tight suit was why the show sometimes jokingly got called "The Seven of Nine's Boobs Show" after her inclusion.
Most of the actors were "fine" on the show, I just think Picardo was the only real standout. Most of the rest of them were crippled by badly written characters, but for whatever reason the writers consistently did well by Picardo's character. Unlike some poor schmuck's like Chakotay and Ensign Kim.
Heh. They weren't literally nazis. More like "feminism run amok", or something. The episode was Angel One. Season One, Episode 14.
There's about five "major" complaints I have with Discovery:
1) The unneeded, unexplained, and frankly unpleasant remake of the Klingons. I concede the Klingons got redesigned from the original series when the first movie came about, but to be fair they got resesigned from "indistinguishable from humans Russia analog" to "interesting alien race", which I don't feel needed to happen a second time.
2) The spore drive. Odin' Fucking Buddha, the spore drive. It's so ungodly stupid it hurts the brain. Every single thing about it is stupid. Just when you think it couldn't be any stupider, they find a way.
3) Star Trek has always been an ensemble show. A bunch of characters, all getting, if not equal, then at least decent screen time of their own. Discovery isn't. It's the Mike Burnam Show. Season two got a little better about this, but there's still very clearly one main character that everything revolves around. No other Trek had been this way. Yeah, maybe a bit of that is just "not what we expected", but it's a radical departure from the formula.
4) It doesn't help that Mike's character offensively retconnected probably the single most beloved and iconic Star Trek character in some really, really stupid ways.
5) I know there's an inherent problem in trying to do prequels for a sci-fi show, because aesthetics and special effects technology both have progressed... Enterprise is frequently cited as being too high tech looking, for example, to be a prequel show. But at least Enterprise tried. The ship was small, cramped, industrial looking - it looked plausibly like you might imagine an early starship might look. Discovery... didn't even try. Discovery is set (almost) contemporarily with The Original Series. There should be some passing resemblance between the two, and there isn't. Yeah, yeah, apparently there are new uniforms on The Enterprise, but I mean there's not even the vaguest visual similarities between Discovery's ships, props, etc and The Original Series. Plus the ship is huge (internally, regardless of how big or small any technical specs might officially say it is), the technology is too good. If you told me the show was set post-Voyager, there's nothing about the show's presentation that could prove you wrong.
Not just that, they have newt babies together.
Yeeeeah. It's generally regarded as either the worst or second worst Voyager episode for a good reason. Which is a little unfair in some respects, I thought Paris' actor gave a great performance in it, but yeah, really stupid.
Yep. even lopped off his "bar of latinum" for the episode, because at one point he proves he's a woman by flashing everyone. Not the worst DS9 episode, actually, but close. Saved only by the fact that Ferengi episodes tend to be kind of silly fun, and are judged accordingly.
You can certainly point to a multitude of similarities between the two shows - both set on a space station, both with a commander who kinda "goes native" to an extent and ultimately has a Higher Destiny of a sort, both involve a back story of an aggressive species conquering a world full of Deeply Religious Aliens, but who have since been liberated, and the ensuing tensions between them, a big war taking up a ton of episodes later on, etc. But despite accusations, the script writers deny that they did anything of the sort deliberately, and for what it's worth the two shows got on amicably, even having friendly softball games between the cast and crew.
If you want just a couple of episodes to "try out" DS9, let me suggest... Let me suggest two.
Duet (Season 1, Episode 19) - One of the best DS9 episodes, period
The Wire (Season 2, episode 22) - A good Bashir/Garak episode. These two were a fantastic duo that had a lot of chemistry, but really any Garak episode is good.
Last edited:
- Joined
- Oct 21, 2018
I feel sorry for the Jem'Hadar
DS9 didnt defy Roddenberrys vision, it showed us that its hard work to stay a decent human beeing and that sometimes hard choices have to be made.
It also shows that those Super peacefull, Intelligent future humans are just a couple of bad evens away from going back to their Primal past...
- Joined
- Jul 30, 2017
TNG has a lot of great ones. I'd save best of both worlds because it's almost an arc episode. Maybe substitute Brothers. The Ensigns of Command is also fun.
You can't bring up DS9 without mentioning Duet. I liked Hippocratic Oath too.
- Joined
- Oct 10, 2014
My dream show would be set ~50 years after TNG and be completely episodic about a ship exploring one of the Magellanic Clouds or something. Don't even worry about canon because you're on a new frontier where it doesn't matter and invite competent sci-fi novelists to come in and write thoughtful episodes.
- Joined
- Jun 10, 2016
Fuck, I always get that one mixed up with Waltz, so I accidentally recommended that one. Waltz is in fact a horrible episode to watch as a stand alone.
- Joined
- Jul 30, 2017
Reminder: nemesis didn't if there was a trek movie between insurrection and nemesis.
Wait a minute.... what came out between the films?
GALAXYQUEST! (It all fits)
- Joined
- Oct 20, 2019
That's hillarious. If only the Internet had been around back then he'd have had a thread here for certain. As to the trans Ferengi episode (I wonder if he's a top Quark or a bottom Quark), I now have to watch it no matter how bad it is. It looks hysterical. But it will be the first episode of DS9 I've ever seen so it might be confusing. My reluctance to pick DS9 stuff to watch is solely down to the feeling it would be a large investment of time to do properly. Whereas Voyager I feel comfortable starting with Scorpion and watching from there semi-selectively.
Okay, so as a big fan of BS5, I feel the first Season wasn't that integrated into the overall arc. There were certainly foreshadowing episodes and I think you needed it to really appreciate G'kar and Londo and Vir and De'lenn as characters. But plot wise I remember a lot of it being quite episode of the week. Also, I have to say if you stopped at Season 2, Ep. 1 you stop just as it was about to get really good.
Added to the list. An episode full of despair is right what I need the way my weekend has been so far. (Kidding.) (Not kidding).
These two thoughts of yours are an interesting combination because one of the episodes I've just watched is the one where the ship's doctor takes control of Seven of Nine's body. She did an outstanding job of carrying off his mannerisms and personality in that episode. Apparently he would act out the scene first and she would then copy him. But that alone wouldn't account for it. She certainly has a pneumatic figure but must have worked hard to pull that off. When she goes quickly from one to the other as he leaves her body is really good. Well, I thought so. I get what you're saying though - I certainly don't think of his acting because he typically had lighter moments. Comedy is actually harder than drama, imo.
I can see all that (bar the spore drive which I don't know enough about Trek to know why that's different to the other handwavium gobbldeygook the show is full of). Hadn't thought about the ensemble / solo issue but obvious once you point it out. My biggest character issue with the show was her red-headed friend... Tilly? Deeply annoying character who probably should not be allowed anywhere near a starship. Also, why is the main character called Mike? Don't answer that - I know there's no actual good reason for it.
- Joined
- Mar 17, 2019
It really isn't. The entire episode is just embarrasing to watch and not because of any sort of respect towards "trans representation" or whatever bullshit, but because it's just cringy. The humour doesn't land at all and that's shameful for a Quark/Ferengi episode. If you need to watch any Ferengi-centric DS9 episode, pick The Magnificent Ferengi. A really funny episode though it helps to know a lot of context if you're going in blind.
She's called Mike because apparently Bryan Fuller (when he was still involved with the show in early production) likes giving female characters male names. It's incredibly retarded. And I agree with Tilly being a useless waste of space. It almost amused me how sidelined she actually was in S2 (not that anyone besides Mikey Burnham really got the time to shine).
My two cents about Trek is it's a campy franchise with a lot of heart to it. If that is missing from any of the series, then it just doesn't work. The lack of a large budget in individual episodes (not for the season as a whole, the series' had a pretty large budget they still had to stretch out for 26 episodes) meant that they had to be creative with their plotlines, which honestly has always worked in their favour. Trek has some wonderful bottle episodes and even the "let's just use whatever period costumes they have in the storage" stories are a lot of fun - you'll take A Fistful of Data's out of my cold, dead hands.
STD is a souless and tryhard late-GoT-tier shitfest with poor writing in every episode and not even a hint of planning put behind it. It's still early for Picard, but I have little hope for it. The old meme of "you can't judge a Trek show this early!" doesn't imho apply because this isn't the 90s anymore. Television has changed and so has the length of the seasons and how they're put out. If you're only giving me 10 or so serialised episodes, then you better fucking hit the mark from the start. The Mandalorian managed to do that, so this isn't an argument of "old good new bad". Picard is already showing worrying signs or bad writing and dialogue. And with such a short season, I don't see them fixing their shit.
- Joined
- Sep 13, 2018
So all the discussion about DS9 got me re-watching it again, and I'm struck by something.
Garak and Bashir have a fantastic bromance.
O'Brien and Bashir have a fantastic bromance.
Bashir is bromantically unfaithful to his bromantic partners, or else he's in an open bromance.
Although it's possible either or both are slightly less of a bromance, and more of a bromance. Garak outright was hitting on Bashir at times, and, well...
Garak and Bashir have a fantastic bromance.
O'Brien and Bashir have a fantastic bromance.
Bashir is bromantically unfaithful to his bromantic partners, or else he's in an open bromance.
Although it's possible either or both are slightly less of a bromance, and more of a bromance. Garak outright was hitting on Bashir at times, and, well...
- Joined
- Sep 7, 2019
I'm sure there was quite a discussion about it, if you can find an usenet archive there's probably some hilarious stuff in it. for example I still remember the group alt.wesley.crusher.die.die.die
in a better timeline we could've gotten
- Joined
- May 25, 2013
Bashir and Garak break up after that time Garak flips out because space drugs.
- Joined
- Oct 20, 2019
Good Lord, you're as old as I am!
- Joined
- Nov 20, 2019
Death to fujoshis.
- Joined
- Sep 13, 2018
I'm not a woman, though.
Sexual Chocolate
kiwifarms.net
- Joined
- Jan 7, 2019
Sisko is hands down the greatest Star Trek captain of all time, because he's a realistically drawn character with recognizably human motivations and flaws, and deals with moral dilemmas where it's not obvious there even *is* a pure, good and righteous option.
Picard was elevated by Stewart's acting chops and gravitas, but look past that and he's a fundamentally silly and unrealistic character. He's a well-intentioned liberal college professor... IN SPAAACE! The truth is, he'd probably end up being mugged for his space-wallet at Farpoint Station, by alien scumbags who don't give a shit about the bald windbag's naive lectures on ethics and diplomacy.
Remember when he had the chance to finally wipe out the Borg, after they had murdered billions of innocent people and kidnapped and techno-raped Picard personally? And he was like "no... the Borg have human rights too XD XD!"
Ridiculous, fake and gay. It'd be like if a mid-level American officer in WW2 had an opportunity to singlehandedly take down Nazi Germany and decided to stroke his chin while congratulating himself on his virtue instead. He'd probably be court-martialled and then shot, and rightly so.
Sisko is what you actually want in a CO. He's a fighter, a man who is always ready to get his hands dirty to protect the people depending on him. Because outside of the comfortable bubble the Federation exists in, it's a tough universe out there. There's all sorts of people and things trying to do you, kill you, rip you off, everything. If you're going to survive out there, you've really got to know where your phaser is.
Also, he's a good Dad. And this helps explain the difference between DS9 and lesser Treks. There's a tendency in science fiction in general and Star Trek in particular for the protagonists to be strangely Peter Pan like free spirits untethered to wives and children and meaningful personal relationships you can't just walk away from to have space adventures.
Kirk boffed the alien chick of the week like a galactic James Bond. Picard only had his fish and his sex tourism to Risa. Archer had a dog. Like most people, I didn't watch Voyager.
This is fine for the purposes of writing adolescent genre fiction, but it's ultimately shallow and unsatisfying for neurotypical adult viewers because it's not a rounded or realistic depiction of actual human beings. Sisko had to juggle commanding a space station with being a single father, which gave him a depth and humanity we rarely see in sci fi.
- Joined
- May 9, 2018
Didn't Picard bang Crusher's mom at some point?
- Joined
- Aug 7, 2019
That's a big problem with the show. Mikey is literally a Mary Sue, which itself was a parody of obnoxiously OP self-insert characters. The other characters aren't as interesting as they could be because they are there to check off diversity quota boxes without having interesting characters. The only character that even those that hate the show remotely like is Tilly, and that's because she's (often obnoxiously) buoyant and is well-endowed. Bad sign.
This^
Stewart is a tremendous actor (though a poor creative mind). The only reason I have to like Picard is because he is played well. That's about it. I don't know why so many people vociferously defend TNG as if its peak Star Trek. The worst stereotypes regarding Trek - boring, "heady," pretentious, obnoxiously liberal - really refer to TNG era Trek. That's not to say that TOS had its moments of liberal sanctimony, but the characters were iconic and lovable and the stories were generally good. The TNG era represents the age of decadence that is produced by good times.
- Joined
- Sep 13, 2018
Oh, I dunno. actually liked most of the cast individually well enough, except Tilly, who I mostly just found irritating. Both captains were pretty good. The space cow second officer wasn't bad, even if his "spidey sense" super power was stupid. I actually quite liked the crazy lesbian engineer they picked up in Season 2.
It's just that they were all basically background set pieces for the Michael Burnam Show.
I love it in part because of those things. I admitted it's failings.
Sexual Chocolate
kiwifarms.net
- Joined
- Jan 7, 2019
Yeah, but he got cucked by a space ghost on that Scottish planet.
The whole approach to sex on TNG was weird, and maybe explains why so many autists and sex preverts are attracted to it.
So, theoretically the characters get their fuck on sometimes. But they don't act like it. There's no petty jealousy, passion, obsession, horniness, sexual tension, bickering, or any real human consequences at all.*
Riker gets fat and then cucked by Worf, and acts like everything is fine. It doesn't affect the plot or the interaction of the characters in any way. It's played as if it has no more significance to him than a holodeck game. Which is eerie, when you think about it.
Roddenberry, who was a weirdo, wanted to depict a utopian world where humans have none of the complicated emotional stuff that makes them human. At least it wasn't Dawson's Creek in space, I guess.
*Except for Miles O'Brien, who convincingly portrays a man who married a stone-cold bitch and is now dying inside, spending day after day standing at the transporter console with a thousand yard stare.
**Also Geordi getting oneitis over his Holodeck waifu, which was both true to the character and also lol