Star Trek - Space: The Final Frontier

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Robert James said:
Remember it doesn't matter if it makes canonical or logical sense they just have to be a species that you think is bad to fit the metaphor.
They already used the Klingons for STD and besides Klingons the casual watcher only knows about the Borg, the Romulans, and maybe the Cardasians. Even if they started off fresh they couldn't use the Klingons for the metaphor in fear of being called racist, the Borg are glorified machines and god forbid if they try to make the Cardassians likable in this day and age.

Mind you picking an Alien species that the average person would perceive as bad is probably one of the better decisions. It shows that they realize they have to convince the people against the refugee crisis to change their minds and not just preach to the quire.
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Emperor Julian said:
Isnt that really bad writting?

I think you're right the Cardassians would have been a way better fit since their empire was fucked into the dirt post dominion war.
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Yeah, between the wars and the dominion, the cardassians being refugees would actually make some sense as well as many of the federation worlds be unwilling to help since the cardies just gave aid to the enemy in the latest war.
 
Flexo said:
Yeah, between the wars and the dominion, the cardassians being refugees would actually make some sense as well as many of the federation worlds be unwilling to help since the cardies just gave aid to the enemy in the latest war.
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I'm with you canonically the Cardassians would make the most sense and would be the best choice to play the race that needs help but burned all their bridges in the Bajoran ovens. The question is do you think the writers of STP or STD could find a way to turn the Cardassians, best known for their genocide of the Bajorans, into a likable and sympathetic race? I would love to see them take a crack at it but you know the internet would explode with "STP tries to make you sympathies with Natzis", "STP tries to push forgiveness and acceptance of Genocide." or "STP promotes Genocide and White Supremecy"
 
Yeah the Cardies definitely would have been a better choice than the Romulans.

If nothing else, Picard already has a history with them that is far more traumatic than anything the Romulans ever did to him. There are four lights.

Also, David Warner is still at least semi-active doing Doctor Who stuff so they might have even been able to bring back Gul Madred.
 
Robert James said:
I'm with you canonically the Cardassians would make the most sense and would be the best choice to play the race that needs help but burned all their bridges in the Bajoran ovens. The question is do you think the writers of STP or STD could find a way to turn the Cardassians, best known for their genocide of the Bajorans, into a likable and sympathetic race? I would love to see them take a crack at it but you know the internet would explode with "STP tries to make you sympathies with Natzis", "STP tries to push forgiveness and acceptance of Genocide." or "STP promotes Genocide and White Supremecy"
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Well they made Dukat and Garak likeable...

Oh wait. That was done by writers with TALENT who weren't up their own asses with modern nonsense.

You're right. Impossible. (Though it would have been interesting to see Andrew J Robinson back.)
 
I want Alex Kurtzman to stay as far away from the Cardassians as humanly possible. There isn't a timeline out there where he could write even a single good storyline for them.

But I agree that having the Cardies be the focal point of STP makes more sense. Honestly, it's kinda weird that they haven't been mentioned once (nor do I really expect them to be) considering that a billion of their people got wiped out in an insanely short time and they were major players in the (so far) biggest Alpha Quadrant-wide conflict. Hell, I'd even take some Bajoran background characters over some more Romulans-being-sneaky wank. I don't understand why Kurtzman and co. feel such a need to follow a shitty storyline thrown out by JJ, the other notable hack-fraud.
 
Flexo said:
Well they made Dukat and Garak likeable...

Oh wait. That was done by writers with TALENT who weren't up their own asses with modern nonsense.

You're right. Impossible. (Though it would have been interesting to see Andrew J Robinson back.)
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To be fair, of the two, while Garak was the only one I found to be sympathetic. Dukat was likable, but it was "magnificant bastard" type likable, not sympathetic. He was still an egomaniacal monster. The only sympathetic moment he had was when Damar destroyed him.
 
Cyril Sneer said:
Seriously, I'm quite fond of the idea that the Federation has no idea how Klingon society functions simply because it doesn't fit their preconceived template for how an interstellar civilization is supposed to look and act.
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I find this idea fun, but I've always though of it differently. Klingons suck at everything except fighting. Every time the Federation has gone up against them in earnest, they get fucking plowed. The famous episode with the Organian Peace Treaty has the Enterprise outnumbered by 30 fucking ships. That just show up at the drop of a hat basically. Its not shown onscreen because that would just look ridiculous, but that's more ships in one place than had ever been mentioned up to that point. Recall in TNG the Battle of Wolf 359 was 49 ships. Speaking of that episode, the Klingons were ready to send ships right away and they were said to be flying in to help.

That episode everyone loves with the Romulans where Picard totally owns the Romulan captain? Who shows up the minute Picard needs them to? The Klingons. Most damning of all is probably Yesterday's Enterprise, where even a tricked out fascist version of the Enterprise D gets pummeled by just three ships and the Federation is said to be losing the war against the Klingons. Also this one is just incedental because it was an excuse to reuse stock footage, but in the Kobayashi Maru one ship against three Klingon warships is said to be a no-win scenario.

The Klingons are probably like your local neighborhood drug addict. Yeah, their life is a mess, but they know how to get what they want and need to keep living, and you do not want to get into a fight with them.

Emperor Julian said:
Although he suspects Warmaster janeway is behind it all.
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They should bank on Janeway's meme status and get Kate Mulgrew in to be a corrupt Admiral, in the best Trek traditon of having high-ranking officers go insane. She's great in all the episodes where she's evil, people loved her performance on Orange Is The New Black, and they could fulfill their desire to get as many members of previous shows on as possible.
 
MembersSchoolPizza said:
To be fair, of the two, while Garak was the only one I found to be sympathetic. Dukat was likable, but it was "magnificant bastard" type likable, not sympathetic. He was still an egomaniacal monster. The only sympathetic moment he had was when Damar destroyed him.
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lol dig this fucking bajoran right here
 
L50LasPak said:
The Klingons are probably like your local neighborhood drug addict. Yeah, their life is a mess, but they know how to get what they want and need to keep living, and you do not want to get into a fight with them.
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I always got the impression the Empire had a lot of stuff going on that we didnt really see since the show focused on their fleets or leadership, while I can imagine most Klingons doing a term in the army it seemed to me a lot of them probably live fairly normal lives once they came home from to the run the family space worm farm and bang their amazonian wifu . It's just their Alien social ques make them come across as a more psychotic than they actually were. It was always a nice touch how differant species had differant social ques, like how Cardassians found earth litterature boring or how the Vulcans where actually a deeply passionate people once you got to know them.

MembersSchoolPizza said:
To be fair, of the two, while Garak was the only one I found to be sympathetic. Dukat was likable, but it was "magnificant bastard" type likable, not sympathetic. He was still an egomaniacal monster. The only sympathetic moment he had was when Damar destroyed him.
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Dukat did nothing wrong.
 
Emperor Julian said:
Dukat did nothing wrong.
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You know when Dukat lost me, in terms of any hope of sympathy?

The episode where they set off the booby trap on DS9.

It showed me two things:

1) Dukat is a fucking prick
2) Dukat is such a fucking prick that the other space-nazis set a booby trap in his booby trap to get rid of him
 
MembersSchoolPizza said:
You know when Dukat lost me, in terms of any hope of sympathy?

The episode where they set off the booby trap on DS9.

It showed me two things:

1) Dukat is a fucking prick
2) Dukat is such a fucking prick that the other space-nazis set a booby trap in his booby trap to get rid of him
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they couldn't handle his too awesome style after he called them at random one random night to tell them he fucked their moms
 
MembersSchoolPizza said:
You know when Dukat lost me, in terms of any hope of sympathy?

The episode where they set off the booby trap on DS9.

It showed me two things:

1) Dukat is a fucking prick
2) Dukat is such a fucking prick that the other space-nazis set a booby trap in his booby trap to get rid of him
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Unredeemable, but god fucking damn did Marc play him so well.
 
MembersSchoolPizza said:
2) Dukat is such a fucking prick that the other space-nazis set a booby trap in his booby trap to get rid of him
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That actually made my opinion of him improve. He went for being an unredeemable space nazi to so hilariously slimy and corrupt the other space nazis had backup plans in their backup plans to get rid of him. Granted, I wonder if it was Dukat's fault or if that's just standard procedure on important installations. He seems pretty surprised when it goes off so maybe its not standard.

Though, this was the part where they started making his character more comical and slowly the nuiance kind of bled out of him. Culminating in the funniest death scene in Star Trek history.
 
MembersSchoolPizza said:
To be fair, of the two, while Garak was the only one I found to be sympathetic. Dukat was likable, but it was "magnificant bastard" type likable, not sympathetic. He was still an egomaniacal monster. The only sympathetic moment he had was when Damar destroyed him.
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Remove Hasperat.

L50LasPak said:
I find this idea fun, but I've always though of it differently. Klingons suck at everything except fighting. Every time the Federation has gone up against them in earnest, they get fucking plowed. The famous episode with the Organian Peace Treaty has the Enterprise outnumbered by 30 fucking ships. That just show up at the drop of a hat basically. Its not shown onscreen because that would just look ridiculous, but that's more ships in one place than had ever been mentioned up to that point. Recall in TNG the Battle of Wolf 359 was 49 ships. Speaking of that episode, the Klingons were ready to send ships right away and they were said to be flying in to help.

That episode everyone loves with the Romulans where Picard totally owns the Romulan captain? Who shows up the minute Picard needs them to? The Klingons. Most damning of all is probably Yesterday's Enterprise, where even a tricked out fascist version of the Enterprise D gets pummeled by just three ships and the Federation is said to be losing the war against the Klingons. Also this one is just incedental because it was an excuse to reuse stock footage, but in the Kobayashi Maru one ship against three Klingon warships is said to be a no-win scenario.

The Klingons are probably like your local neighborhood drug addict. Yeah, their life is a mess, but they know how to get what they want and need to keep living, and you do not want to get into a fight with them.
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Fair point about the Klingons' apparently unique ability and willingness to show up with a fuckton of warships at any given place and any time, but it's really not accurate to say that fighting is the only thing that they're good at. The Dominion War arc of DS9, for example, also demonstrates that they (somehow) have a terrifyingly competent intelligence service, to the point where Martok or Gowron can apparently just casually pull data on whatever matter Sisko needs at any given moment seemingly out of thin air.* If you don't simply chalk this up to lazy writing it suggests that there's a whole lot more going on with the Klingons behind the scenes than the Federation is really aware of or willing to acknowledge.

Emperor Julian said:
I always got the impression the Empire had a lot of stuff going on that we didnt really see since the show focused on their fleets or leadership, while I can imagine most Klingons doing a term in the army it seemed to me a lot of them probably live fairly normal lives once they came home from to the run the family space worm farm and bang their amazonian wifu . It's just their Alien social ques make them come across as a more psychotic than they actually were. It was always a nice touch how differant species had differant social ques, like how Cardassians found earth litterature boring or how the Vulcans where actually a deeply passionate people once you got to know them.
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Exactly. And 24th century humans seem to be so heavily indoctrinated against acting with (overt) aggression under normal circumstances that the cheerful violence of Klingon society probably causes many of them to short-circuit from sheer cognitive dissonance when considering Klingons as a whole.

*also, am I misremembering or was the Klingon restaurant on the DS9 Promenade really popular? 🤔
 
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Cyril Sneer said:
*also, am I misremembering or was the Klingon restaurant on the DS9 Promenade really popular? 🤔
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I just thought of this... Pretty much half the main crew of DS9 were seemingly addicted to Raktajino... And maybe I'm making assumptions here, but I'd bet that an (probably *the*) authentic Klingon restaurant on the station would be the best place to get that. (Assuming there is a difference between having it made authentically and having it replicated... And I believe multiple characters in Trek have said that certain items of food and (mostly) drink don't taste quite the same when replicated.)
My personal favorite:
Err.. I just looked it up and maybe I was wrong. I thought that synthehol was just replicated alcohol, now I'm thinking that it's just a shitty alcohol substitute that can't actually get you drunk... (i.e. worthless) But I definitely remember people saying that replicated food isn't the same as real food. No wonder Romulan Ale was still illegal, even though the Romulan embargo was supposedly lifted... (Yay! Star Trek:Nemesis Reference!)
 
Star Trek Picard in a nutshell:

Fans: We want more TNG episodes with the old cast back! and maybe some cameos from the other trek shows. Have the TNG cast exploring new worlds and new civilizations.

CBS/bad robot: Have a story about an android girl that will turn out to be the most special person ever, and a conspiracy about androids nobody really cares about.

Btw: Picard will be to just be the mentor of the new girl. And the characters you actually care about will just briefly cameo so we can bait you with nostalgia in the trailers.
 
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