Star Trek - Space: The Final Frontier

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UnKillFill said:
I do still wholly believe that the first "season" of Firefly, or at least what we got of it (provided you watch the episodes in the correct order) is MUCH better than the entire first season of TNG was. (And I do also believe that "Serenity" was a much better movie than any of the *TNG* Trek movies we got were, even the relatively good one.) Would Firefly have gotten better like TNG eventually did? I guess we'll never know... But hell, I still liked it.
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Short series play to whedons strengths as a writter, since for some reason he can't allow for any meaningful setting progress and has a fetish for making his characters as misrable as possible. Firefly would have gone south if they'd have dragged on for 3-6 seasons.
 
The Gagh Whisperer said:
The worldbuilding was pure copy/paste, with little thought about how it fits together. The story was a collection of tropes. The characters were shallow and dull, but said enough clever and funny things that people didn't notice.
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Yeah, I still like the show Firefly but after watching that awful Serenity movie, it's clear that what he had in mind was Buffy in Space and it was so fucking dumb.
 
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Overly Serious said:
As someone who has just started watching Enterprise and has only meaningfully watched any Trek from the start of this year (due to this thread), the above is very amusing. I have to say regards T'pol the actress does a pretty good female impersonation of Spock. I notice a lot of deliberate mannerisms and expressions calling back to him. The actress does a fair job of creating a convincing character but I'm unconvinced that she - or other Vulcans on the show - are really that without emotion. It's not a problem of acting so much as it is what a person without emotions would be like. The Vulcans in Enterprise seem more surly than emotionless and it seems to be a general directorial decision.
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Vulcans aren't supposed to be emotionless, though. They are violently, almost painfully emotional creatures, and they don't always do the best job of keeping that part of themselves under control.
 
The Gagh Whisperer said:
So, I’ve been watching a sci-fi show about a group of assholes on a small generic looking ship.

There's this young innocent seeming girl who might be more than she appears. A broody tough guy. A badass chick who don't take shit from no man. Some dude who seems kind of a tourist, but provides a little extra morality. A robot girl with identity issues. There's even a space ninja. They're all kind of troubled and have past issues they're working through. They're on their own in an unforgiving universe.

It's called Dark Matter, and I'm actually enjoying it.

(I could also be mostly describing Firefly, but I'm not, because Firefly is fucking trash and a cancer that's infected the entire genre, but that's a separate rant.)

Which brings me to my point:

Picard is the most unoriginal piece of science fiction ever made.

There is not a single original thought in the entire show. Beyond the premise of "Captain Picard is back!" there is no reason for it to exist.

Every concept, every character, every beat of the story is a well-trodden genre trope that others have done better.

I maintain my theory of Peak Geek Culture. That the people writing the trash we're seeing now know nothing BUT geek culture. That they have nothing to draw on but Star Wars, Marvel, Harry Potter, and various video games. That they have no imagination beyond what they've been told to consume.
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I think it's not just a lack of imagination, but also a cynical attempt to capture lightning in a bottle twice. For example, the reason there's a female admiral who keeps cussing out Picard is because The Expanse featured a female politician with a foul mouth who was a fan favorite. Everything about these recent Star Trek shows has the same odor of panic and desperation that permeates stuff like the Snyder era DC movies and every Sony blockbuster not co-produced by Marvel.
 
Overly Serious said:
I believe it is but I don't know how hard or how time consuming it is to do well and is it really capable of doing something realistic in proper lighting other than slightly weird porn scenes? It may be impressive but I think Tarkin and Leia in the Star Wars movies empirically show that it's far from trivial to get this convincing. Those were very high budget big name movies and they failed at it. So regardless of what we think Deep Fake technology should be, logic says Picard couldn't do it if Disney couldn't.
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I needed some days off and wanted to watch something good. So I decided to watch the new Star Trek, curiously rebranded as something called "The Orville", and I gotta say, I loved it. Way more than I thought.
Man, if 5 years ago, someone told me I'd have legit admiration and respect for Seth McFarlane, I'd have called them crazy. But, legit, he's earned it.

Almost made being stuck inside worth it.

On that note; about actual Star Trek; this sums it up nice.
Die in a fire, Kurtzman:
 
Absolutego said:
I think it's not just a lack of imagination, but also a cynical attempt to capture lightning in a bottle twice. For example, the reason there's a female admiral who keeps cussing out Picard is because The Expanse featured a female politician with a foul mouth who was a fan favorite. Everything about these recent Star Trek shows has the same odor of panic and desperation that permeates stuff like the Snyder era DC movies and every Sony blockbuster not co-produced by Marvel.
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Holy fucking shit, I hadn’t even made the Avasarala connection.

They truly are some unoriginal motherfuckers.
 
Guts Gets Some said:
On that note; about actual Star Trek; this sums it up nice.
Die in a fire, Kurtzman:
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Well, I have to say that at least there is someone here that simply loves Star Trek Picard and how it portrayed Picard, and can't wait for season 2.

No, not me, but the man himself. He is even promoting CBS all access on twitter:

View attachment 1210540

twitter.com

Patrick Stewart on Twitter

“Our #StarTrekPicard season finale is Thursday, and starting today until 4/23, you can watch for free on @CBSAllAccess in the US with the code: GIFT. https://t.co/i2IfFQN3I8 It's felt good to bring Picard back. I can't wait to reunite with our cast and crew for Season 2. https://t.co/lSmtMxgrN8”
twitter.com twitter.com
 
Pixy Misa said:
Well, I have to say that at least there is someone here that simply loves Star Trek Picard and how it portrayed Picard, and can't wait for season 2.

No, not me, but the man himself. He is even promoting CBS all access on twitter:

View attachment 1210540

twitter.com

Patrick Stewart on Twitter

“Our #StarTrekPicard season finale is Thursday, and starting today until 4/23, you can watch for free on @CBSAllAccess in the US with the code: GIFT. https://t.co/i2IfFQN3I8 It's felt good to bring Picard back. I can't wait to reunite with our cast and crew for Season 2. https://t.co/lSmtMxgrN8”
twitter.com twitter.com
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I was just thinking that myself, that its only fans are the tards behind it.

Stewart is a literal hack; of course he wants it back.
1. PUSH HIS POLITICS
2. PLAY HIMSELF (seriously, what acting? That wasn't Picard, it was Patrick Stewart through and through. He wasn't even trying).

Here's what I say in regard to a Picard season 2:
:story:
 
Guts Gets Some said:
I was just thinking that myself, that its only fans are the tards behind it.

Stewart is a literal hack; of course he wants it back.
1. PUSH HIS POLITICS
2. PLAY HIMSELF (seriously, what acting? That wasn't Picard, it was Patrick Stewart through and through. He wasn't even trying).

Here's what I say in regard to a Picard season 2:
:story:
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Fuck, Patrick Stewart's script involvement has given us Nemesis and Picard. The worst Star Trek even made.

Dude can act, but he can't write a story worth shit.

I actually liked Insurrection because it felt like actual TNG. I suspect that's more to do with Michael Pillar.
 
The Gagh Whisperer said:
Fuck, Patrick Stewart's script involvement has given us Nemesis and Picard. The worst Star Trek even made.
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You know, I don't think he has been this excited for a project in a long time. As you know, He went as far as to go to Whoopi's talk show to invite her to guest star in Picard season 2


And this is from a guy that, from what I've heard, was a lot more motivated to do anything for money than anything and charges a lot more for any side project compared to his TNG co-stars. (which I don't hold against him because this is his job after all): case in point his role as the poop emoji in the emoji movie. But I bring it up because, it's not a small thing seeing him this enthusiastic.

He will probably never notice because twitter is a huge echo-chamber, but if only he was aware of how negatively Non-Kurtmanz Star trek fans are reacting to him I don't think he would be this happy.

I would also like to add that it seems like he still seems to hold a grudge with Rodenberry because Gene didn't want him to be Picard as he wanted another handsome young actor like Kirk instead of the wise parental figure he ended up being. So it's really no wonder he is no loyal to his vision of the show.

But yeah, overall I agree. He is a fantastic actor, but as writing goes he has no idea of anything.
 
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The Gagh Whisperer said:
Fuck, Patrick Stewart's script involvement has given us Nemesis and Picard. The worst Star Trek even made.

Dude can act, but he can't write a story worth shit.

I actually liked Insurrection because it felt like actual TNG. I suspect that's more to do with Michael Pillar.
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I'd agree that Insurrection felt like an episode of a sci-fi tv show to me (in its lack of scope, if nothing else) but I don't think it felt like an episode of TNG, to me at least.

The Enterprise crew decide to unilaterally disobey Starfleet's orders, in the middle of the Dominion War which really wasn't going well the Federation no less, in order to help a group of a couple hundred of basically immortal selfish space-Amish assholes prevent anybody else (including Starfleet, and even the half of their own race that decided they didn't want to be space-Amish) from using their super awesome "heals everything and makes you immortal just by being there" planet.

I'd agree that the Federation were also assholes in this movie... they didn't need to remove the Ba'ku from the planet in order to set up a major hospital, or even many, on the planet. I looked it up, there were literally 600 Ba'ku. But the Ba'ku were also assholes for not wanting any technology at all on a planet they didn't even really own.

This is probably the closest we'll ever get to see of Mirror Picard and crew (On screen of course, I read the Mirror TNG comics and liked them.) because they all act totally the opposite of how they'd usually act under regular circumstances.

Pixy Misa said:
You know, I don't think he has been this excited for a project in a long time. As you know, He went as far as to go to Whoopi's talk show to invite her to guest star in Picard season 2

https://youtube.com/watch?v=YsA61VvA8cw
And this is from a guy that, from what I've heard, was a lot more motivated to do anything for money than anything and charges a lot more for any side project compared to his TNG co-stars. (which I don't hold against him because this is his job after all): case in point his role as the poop emoji in the emoji movie. But I bring it up because, it's not a small thing seeing him this enthusiastic.

He will probably never notice because twitter is a huge echo-chamber, but if only he was aware of how negatively Non-Kurtmanz Star trek fans are reacting to him I don't think he would be this happy.

I would also like to add that it seems like he still seems to hold a grudge with Rodenberry because Gene didn't want him to be Picard as he wanted another handsome young actor like Kirk instead of the wise parental figure he ended up being. So it's really no wonder he is no loyal to his vision of the show.

But yeah, overall I agree. He is a fantastic actor, but as writing goes he has no idea of anything.
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Patrick Stewart has very obviously never really liked "Star Trek." I sadly don't have any hard links on hand, but I believe I've even heard him admit as much himself before.

With that said, I wouldn't be at all surprised if he really *does* like Picard as much as he's claiming to. As others have already pointed out, *his* idea of Jean-Luc Picard is much more in line with the TNG Movies (which let's be honest weren't very good.) - Namely, a dark and gritty action hero who breaks all the rules. He's obviously far to old to believably play that these days, but I could conceivably imagine that he views being a main character in a "dark and gritty" series (named after his character to boot) to be the next best thing.
 
ToroidalBoat said:
The only TNG movie I like is Generations.

Maybe also First Contact, but I like the Enterprise D better.
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Oh man, Generations was the one I hated the most. >_< Yes, even more than Nemisis, even though I hate that one too...

I prefer the possible future we saw in "All Good Things" where Riker kept the Enterprise D and suped it up (with a third warp nacelle to boot!) Also, Data survived. Also, Troi did not. No loss there.

You know, thinking about it, the only obvious reason that the future changed between the 'possible' future in "All Good Things" and "Star Trek Picard" (unless you want to be a major black-pill and think its because Picard decided be more friendly with his crew after that episode and play cards with them for once) is that the movies happened after...

The TNG movies were a mistake.
 
Kurtzman, Goldsman and Chabon are on a damage control tour now.
In January, Picard executive producer Alex Kurtzman told THR that none of their original pitch doc for the first season made it to the shooting of the final project. That story document — written by Chabon, Kurtzman and Goldsman — also didn't feature Data (Brent Spiner), a character whose death in 2002's Star Trek: Nemesis would eventually end up playing a vital role in Picard's post-Captain-of-the-Enterprise life.
[...]
the original plan was for Picard to assemble his new crew aboard the La Sirena vessel by the end of episode two. (In the final season, Picard doesn't venture back into space until the end of episode three.) But budget and story needs allowed the writers to expand upon that critical plot development and treat the first three episodes as though they were akin to the three-act structure of a feature film.
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www.hollywoodreporter.com

The Challenge for 'Star Trek: Picard' Season 2

Showrunner Michael Chabon and executive producer Akiva Goldsman reflect on the big swing they took with the finale and look forward to what's next. "It's never going to be just a show about the crew of a starship that's part of Starfleet."
www.hollywoodreporter.com www.hollywoodreporter.com

Also Chabon thinks that Star Trek fans were not used to the serialized storytelling. I guess the later seasons of DS9 and the third season of ENT don't count.
Chabon believes Star Trek: Discovery's emphasis on serialized storytelling helped prime the pump for audiences' experience with Picard's more "novelistic" narrative approach.
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I was listening to RMB's livestream yesterday and it looks like there's some weird shit happening at CBS, apparently Chabon has not one but two of his books being adapted for Showtime, produced by Kurtzman (who also produces the "Clarice" show) and the showrunner of the new McGuyver show has become a producer (and possible new showrunner) of Picard season 2. They're also planning a 3rd season of Picard. It's unbelievable.
 
Speaking of All Good Things, how different is this Picard thing from the future in the episode? What's the biggest differences?
 
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