Star Trek - Space: The Final Frontier

[Twitter Hate Mob]

Speaking of All Good Things, just how different is this Picard thing from the future in the episode? What's the biggest differences?

Picard doesn't have space dementia and isn't a walking joke in All Good Things.

 

[AnOminous]

Also Chabon thinks that Star Trek fans were not used to the serialized storytelling. I guess the later seasons of DS9 and the third season of ENT don't count.

This was introduced as early as TNG. While TOS was nearly purely episodic, TNG had a sort of hybrid structure where the series was mostly episodic, but with ongoing storylines interweaving with the main thrust of a specific episode, generally involving relationships between characters. It didn't get completely into the soap opera for nerds level of later incarnations, but it was already there.

 

[XYZpdq]

This was introduced as early as TNG. While TOS was nearly purely episodic, TNG had a sort of hybrid structure where the series was mostly episodic, but with ongoing storylines interweaving with the main thrust of a specific episode, generally involving relationships between characters. It didn't get completely into the soap opera for nerds level of later incarnations, but it was already there.

TAS has a few eps that are specifically sequels to TOS, like the ones with Mudd, tribbles and Cyrano Jones, Shore Leave planet, Guardian of Forever. DC comics set between movies 2 and 3 did some serialized storytelling, hell movies 2-5 are basically one big story arc

 

[Cyril Sneer]

DC comics set between movies 2 and 3 did some serialized storytelling, hell movies 2-5 are basically one big story arc

DC also had Sulu's family as the head of a zaibatsu that produces mecha:

 

[Flexo]

This was introduced as early as TNG. While TOS was nearly purely episodic, TNG had a sort of hybrid structure where the series was mostly episodic, but with ongoing storylines interweaving with the main thrust of a specific episode, generally involving relationships between characters. It didn't get completely into the soap opera for nerds level of later incarnations, but it was already there.

People seem to forget that there was a whole arc about the Klingons and Romulans. Yes you can watch them individually, but if you watch them in sequence, it means more to see Worf taking dishonor to preserve the empire, but then to be welcomed back. Not to mention Sela appearing which only makes complete sense if you've seen Yesterday's Enterprise...

 

[UnKillFill]

Speaking of All Good Things, how different is this Picard thing from the future in the episode? What's the biggest differences?

I still haven't watched any of Picard, but I could name you a few of the biggest differences.

In the All Good Things possible future:
-Data is still alive.
-Picard and Beverly actually got married (it didnt work out though.)
-Troi died, and Riker and Worf still hate eachother over it. (It's implied that Troi was still with Worf at the time.)
-The Enterprise D still existed in a suped up form. (I guess Troi died before she could crash it.)
-Geordi ended up marrying the chick who he made into a holodeck program to fuck

-Sorry @Twitter Hate Mob , Picard having space alzheimers was actually one of the few things STP kept (assuming they cared to give it the same name, I don't care enough to check.) It's why future Picard had such a hard time convincing everyone that he was traveling through time, they thought he was just being crazy again.

 

[Krokodil Overdose]

Firefly is neat if you've never seen Outlaw Star

Or Cowboy Bebop. Even then, though, I have a hard time disliking Firefly because, Whedonisms notwithstanding, it was part of an earlier, better era of entertainment before the Social Justice tumor had gone fully cancerous. I mean, can you imagine [current year] Whedon writing any of the male characters as competent and effective as they are in that show? Can you imagine River actually needing help and protection from her non-super brother? I sure as hell can't.

Firefly is the James Dean of sci-fi: died while it was still young and beautiful, before the AIDS and meth mouth set in. STP is when a series survives long past it's sell-by date (see also: the last two seasons of SG-1.)

 

[XYZpdq]

Or Cowboy Bebop. Even then, though, I have a hard time disliking Firefly because, Whedonisms notwithstanding, it was part of an earlier, better era of entertainment before the Social Justice tumor had gone fully cancerous. I mean, can you imagine [current year] Whedon writing any of the male characters as competent and effective as they are in that show? Can you imagine River actually needing help and protection from her non-super brother? I sure as hell can't.

Firefly is the James Dean of sci-fi: died while it was still young and beautiful, before the AIDS and meth mouth set in. STP is when a series survives long past it's sell-by date (see also: the last two seasons of SG-1.)

There's a lot of that style of scifi, like Space Truckers as well, but there's some stuff like the chick in the container that you just go "oh yeah Joss. Outlaw Star was cool. Thanks for reminding me that I should just rewatch that instead"

 

[Flexo]

Or Cowboy Bebop. Even then, though, I have a hard time disliking Firefly because, Whedonisms notwithstanding, it was part of an earlier, better era of entertainment before the Social Justice tumor had gone fully cancerous. I mean, can you imagine [current year] Whedon writing any of the male characters as competent and effective as they are in that show? Can you imagine River actually needing help and protection from her non-super brother? I sure as hell can't.

Firefly is the James Dean of sci-fi: died while it was still young and beautiful, before the AIDS and meth mouth set in. STP is when a series survives long past it's sell-by date (see also: the last two seasons of SG-1.)

A lot of people forget that Tim Minear helped out Joss on that show. And when you realize that he was the one who wrote the episode "Out of Gas" it hits you that like some of those folks that worked with Gene Roddenberry, it was the sidekick who took the core idea of the show, and made it great.

But hey if you don't like it, to each their own.

 

[Guts Gets Some]

Patrick Stewart has very obviously never really liked "Star Trek." I sadly don't have any hard links on hand, but I believe I've even heard him admit as much himself before.

With that said, I wouldn't be at all surprised if he really *does* like Picard as much as he's claiming to. As others have already pointed out, *his* idea of Jean-Luc Picard is much more in line with the TNG Movies (which let's be honest weren't very good.) - Namely, a dark and gritty action hero who breaks all the rules. He's obviously far to old to believably play that these days, but I could conceivably imagine that he views being a main character in a "dark and gritty" series (named after his character to boot) to be the next best thing.

Oh, Stewart loves Picard now.

He loves the fact he gets to exploit an iconic character he played (yet didn't understand at all, apparently) to push HIS politics onto a set fanbase. Trek was high-jacked by the retarded left and the worst writer in the business, so it's a perfect fit.

Want to know why he's so excited now? Bingo.

Drop dead from Corona-chan, prick.

 

[Uranus Pink]

There's a lot of that style of scifi, like Space Truckers as well, but there's some stuff like the chick in the container that you just go "oh yeah Joss. Outlaw Star was cool. Thanks for reminding me that I should just rewatch that instead"

Don't forget to watch Farscape as well if you haven't watched it.

 

[Miller]

I wouldn't be at all surprised if he really *does* like Picard as much as he's claiming to.

I wish I could get my hands on the outline that Kurtzman, Goldsman and Beyer pitched to Stewart. All I know is that none of the TNG characters were in it, not even Spiner's characters.

I'd agree that Insurrection felt like an episode of a sci-fi tv show to me (in its lack of scope, if nothing else) but I don't think it felt like an episode of TNG, to me at least.

It's "Who watches the Watchers" with a villain and a new twist.

 

[AverageAnimeWatcher]

I wish I could get my hands on the outline that Kurtzman, Goldsman and Beyer pitched to Stewart. All I know is that none of the TNG characters were in it, not even Spiner's characters.

That's really odd considering they are all his best friends and they claim they loved working together. You would think Patrick would lobby for a reunion with them.

Also

I found a youtube video that had a rumor that Patrick also refused to play Picard as he did in the past because he was sick of being typecast as a captain or similar roles and Kurtzman only convinced him by saying it wouldn't be like TNG. Which also explains why he isn't even the captain of his crew.

Of course, take it with a grain of salt. But it makes a lot of sense.

 

[Emperor Julian]

I think my biggest objection to Picard is I can't think for a single reason for it to exist outside of using nostalgia to make a few quid.

 

[Flexo]

I think my biggest objection to Picard is I can't think for a single reason for it to exist outside of using nostalgia to make a few quid.

Well to be fair you could say the same about TNG's first season and--

Oh.

That was crap too, wasn't it?

 

[trekkor]

I dunno, man. S1 of TNG had some neat ideas and a nice 80s feel to it (loved the music). It didn't hit hard with the truly good episodes, but honestly, I wouldn't even say there were truly bad episodes (silly/meme ones like The Naked Now have their own appeal). At least I liked the characters, as raw as they were in the early show. And Conspiracy was a dope episode. I also maintain Encounter at Farpoint did a good job at setting up the series and its morality.

 

[Judge Holden]

Season 1 of TNG was fucking terrible....but it was sincere in how fucking terrible it was. It went against the grain both socially and in comparison to other sci-fi of the era with its premise and worldbuilding, and beneath all the pompousity and smugness and melodrama, there was enough heart and potential to be eventually turned into something worth watching.

Picard is just the most generic sci-fi trash imaginable that slavishly sticks to every modern media convention and has zero identity or heart of its own, and beneath its far less sincere pompousity and smugness and melodrama there is absolutely nothing of worth other than a cynical hackfraud showrrunner and an utterly talentless fake-hippy showwriter both looking to get asspats and shekels and nothing more.

The difference is simple. Sincere Passion vs Insincere Cynicism.

The former can turn even the most inept horseshit imaginable into a fondly remembered classic....

The latter can turn even the most polished and well funded and technologically impressive production into a universally loathed shitshow...

 

[Stoneheart]

After watching Margin Call, i know understand why Zachary Quinto was castes as Spock.

 

[ditto]

After watching Margin Call, i know understand why Zachary Quinto was castes as Spock.

His financial investigating is like those "Inspector Tuvok" episodes from early Voyager.

 

[TaimuRadiu]

This was introduced as early as TNG. While TOS was nearly purely episodic, TNG had a sort of hybrid structure where the series was mostly episodic, but with ongoing storylines interweaving with the main thrust of a specific episode, generally involving relationships between characters. It didn't get completely into the soap opera for nerds level of later incarnations, but it was already there.

I like TV shows that are that way a lot better than "serialized" TV, which was a large reason why I stopped watching TV. OK, here's an episode that deals with the ongoing story arc... and another one... and another five... ok I have no idea who these characters are or why I should watch it?

Well to be fair you could say the same about TNG's first season and--

Oh.

That was crap too, wasn't it?

I liked TNG's first season. Watching it much later, it was thematically the same as TOS. When I watch TNG now, I can't get thru all of Season 2, it's just God awful compared to it and everything else that follows, despite the few good episodes in it.

TAS has a few eps that are specifically sequels to TOS, like the ones with Mudd, tribbles and Cyrano Jones, Shore Leave planet, Guardian of Forever. DC comics set between movies 2 and 3 did some serialized storytelling, hell movies 2-5 are basically one big story arc

There's also one written by Walter Koenig that's supposed to be a followup on the Eugenics Wars, but it involves an exiled Earth scientist from that era deciding to take over the Galaxy with giant clones of Spock. It's also considered to be the absolute WORST episode of TAS, so there you go.

Larry Niven's Kzinti also were supposed to be in DS9, but they called them "Tzenkethi." The furry member of the Enterprise in TAS was supposed to be from an offshoot of their species.