Star Trek - Space: The Final Frontier

  • Want to keep track of this thread?
    Accounts can bookmark posts, watch threads for updates, and jump back to where you stopped reading.
    Create account
Flexo said:
These people are such cowards... "oh let's talk about contemporary issues! until it gets hard!"

THIS is the shit I'm always going on about! If you assholes had never bothered with trying to comment on contemporary issues and worked more on telling a good story (that may end up having application to today's issues) then it would be no big deal to skip over corona-chan now!

But NO - you had to go and make whatever was in the headlines your lodestar and now that all of a sudden the headlines turn in a direction that makes you uncomfortable, you chicken out.

Bunch of NPCs.
Click to expand...

99% of their faux-woke faux-activist spiel is just spinning the most mundane and normal shit imaginable thats been mainstream since the 60s/70s as "STUNNING AND BRAVE AND GROUNDBREAKING" which is why conducting mass press interviews/releases about the glorious and unprecedented muhdiversity of having wammen and niggos as part of the cast forms most of their marketing and PR, even when, as in the case of star trek, the franchise already beat them to the punch decades ago with female/non white protagonists and captains and well rounded representation going back to the 60s. They are trying to spin the easiest and most uncontroversial shit imaginable as a historical triumph of showrunner courage and goodness that deserves to be praised solely for taking such a bold stance.

The flip side of this is then using this as a pretext to declare everyone who says "this is shit" or "your woke posturing is cringy" or "hang on...there are less non-white/male characters in this now than there were twenty years ago and you made them all caricatured assholes" as being hateful bigots obsessed with silencing and erasing women/non white/homogay people from media and indeed reality despite these people having spent their lives happily consuming far more diverse and political shit in various mediums and never once complaining about any of it until overpaid insincere shitbags started demanding medals for doing shit that has been the norm since before the Vietnam war.

Thing is though, this is what they know will get them wall to wall positive writeups in print/online media from journos equally cynical and uncaring who are doing the same insincere "LOOK HOW WOKE AND BRAVE WE ARE!" routine to pad out their own careers and get their own asspats, and thus it makes sense to the swarms of hackfrauds in creative media to do this since its a guarantee of rave reviews no matter how shit the product is.

Basically its hoped that between throwing money at effects and throwing wokebait at critics looking to get extra goodboipoints, coupled with throwing "ALAS WE ARE BEING HARASSED AND ABUSED BY TOXIC BIGUT NURDS!" crumbs to shitbag journos looking for their next outrage piece, that they can get enough normie interest in something to make some kind of profit before negative/disinterested word of mouth spreads and it gets forgotten forever
 
Last edited:
Judge Holden said:
99% of their faux-woke faux-activist spiel is just spinning the most mundane and normal shit imaginable thats been mainstream since the 60s/70s as "STUNNING AND BRAVE AND GROUNDBREAKING" which is why conducting mass press interviews/releases about the glorious and unprecedented muhdiversity of having wammen and niggos as part of the cast forms most of their marketing and PR, even when, as in the case of star trek, the franchise already beat them to the punch decades ago with female/non white protagonists and captains and well rounded representation going back to the 60s
Click to expand...

You know what infuriates me more than anything? People who fucking use Roddenberry to justify their new woke bullshit.
"RODDENBERRY: THE FIRST SJW"

You've already raped his corpse; looking to finish him off with that gangrape up the ass?

I think this video is the finest counterpoint to that; it's one of the finest Trek videos I've ever seen, to be honest.
 
Guts Gets Some said:
You know what infuriates me more than anything? People who fucking use Roddenberry to justify their new woke bullshit.
"RODDENBERRY: THE FIRST SJW"

You've already raped his corpse; looking to finish him off with that gangrape up the ass?

I think this video is the finest counterpoint to that; it's one of the finest Trek videos I've ever seen, to be honest.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=jsgnyxpzlfY:3
Click to expand...
While Roddeberry was certaiinly progressive (ACTUALLY PROGRESSIVE, not the overzealous SJW bullshit that passes itself for progressive these days.) he was by no means an SJW. Star Trek, for instance, promotes meritocracy, something the SJWs absolutely loath because it prevents them from unfairly boosting up """oppressed""" groups at the expense of everyone else. The best man, woman, or xeno for the job gets the job. Worf didn't become chief of security because of affirmative action, but because he was damned good at it. Likewise, Picard wasn't captain because he was a straight white male and muh patriarchy, but because he was the most qualified for command. If the most qualified for command was a tran black lesbian, she'd be captain because she's qualified not because she's a trans black lesbian.

It's no wonder the SJW types want Trek debased, it showed a truely progressive ideology and how any such ideology would be fundamentally at odds with their own. They need to twist, warp, and pervert Trek to suit their own devices because that glorious vision of the future that we once held to be an ideal we could reach towards, well that ideal is just not "progressive" enough and is thus problematic and must fall into line. Just like everything else.

Resistance is futile.
 
I actually liked the tribbles short. I don't consider it canon any more than the one with the cartoon mother tardigrade was. I saw Major Grin's video before the actual short and was prepared for it to be cringy - but it was actually pretty funny. If you don't consider it canon. Some of the shorts are canon, but ones like the tribbles one and mother tardigrade don't seem like they are supposed to be.
Though considering the writing team, it probably is 100% canon, and now canon that all children in the Federation love eating tribble cereal with human DNA.

Considering that the first season of Picard was absolutely nothing like Patrick Stewart originally said it would be - be prepared for season 2 to actually be entirely about WuFlu. Maybe Trek WuFlu comes from Vulcan and everyone starts being super racist toward Vulcans, with the president of Earth calling it the Vulcan Flu, upsetting Picard. But THEN it's revealed at the end that the Vulcan Flu was ACTUALLY caused by the Federation and the Federation covered it up and made everything worse to preserve trade agreements with the Ferengi. This is all resolved with a massive space battle, because fuck you.

I'm of the opinion that Picard is not actually a diverse series, and has arguably one of the least diverse casts in Star Trek. Just look at the differences in casts; the 90s series had a lot more emphasis on different races as well as different alien characters, some with fairly pronounced physical differences. Even the "non-human" characters in Picard are basically just white people, compared to previous series where the alien characters were more visibly different.

1586642892234.png


1586642956973.png

1586643033452.png


1586642749038.png


Picard has more female crew characters, but I feel that overall diversity isn't particular strong here.
 
melty said:
I actually liked the tribbles short. I don't consider it canon any more than the one with the cartoon mother tardigrade was. I saw Major Grin's video before the actual short and was prepared for it to be cringy - but it was actually pretty funny. If you don't consider it canon. Some of the shorts are canon, but ones like the tribbles one and mother tardigrade don't seem like they are supposed to be.
Though considering the writing team, it probably is 100% canon, and now canon that all children in the Federation love eating tribble cereal with human DNA.

Considering that the first season of Picard was absolutely nothing like Patrick Stewart originally said it would be - be prepared for season 2 to actually be entirely about WuFlu. Maybe Trek WuFlu comes from Vulcan and everyone starts being super racist toward Vulcans, with the president of Earth calling it the Vulcan Flu, upsetting Picard. But THEN it's revealed at the end that the Vulcan Flu was ACTUALLY caused by the Federation and the Federation covered it up and made everything worse to preserve trade agreements with the Ferengi. This is all resolved with a massive space battle, because fuck you.

I'm of the opinion that Picard is not actually a diverse series, and has arguably one of the least diverse casts in Star Trek. Just look at the differences in casts; the 90s series had a lot more emphasis on different races as well as different alien characters, some with fairly pronounced physical differences. Even the "non-human" characters in Picard are basically just white people, compared to previous series where the alien characters were more visibly different.

View attachment 1225200

View attachment 1225201
View attachment 1225203

View attachment 1225197

Picard has more female crew characters, but I feel that overall diversity isn't particular strong here.
Click to expand...
I love how the first three of the cast would pose professionally, almost like those pictures of NASA astronauts before their missions. It gives a certain dignity, as if they were a legitimate family. Now here, they don't feel like a complete crew. It's just a group of unprofessional criminals and low-lifes who seem pretty distant from each other. Picard seems to be the only one with a small ounce of dignity here.
 
Last edited:
ExceptionallyExceptional said:
While Roddeberry was certaiinly progressive (ACTUALLY PROGRESSIVE, not the overzealous SJW bullshit that passes itself for progressive these days.) he was by no means an SJW. Star Trek, for instance, promotes meritocracy, something the SJWs absolutely loath because it prevents them from unfairly boosting up """oppressed""" groups at the expense of everyone else. The best man, woman, or xeno for the job gets the job. Worf didn't become chief of security because of affirmative action, but because he was damned good at it. Likewise, Picard wasn't captain because he was a straight white male and muh patriarchy, but because he was the most qualified for command. If the most qualified for command was a tran black lesbian, she'd be captain because she's qualified not because she's a trans black lesbian.
Click to expand...
Not disagreeing with you, but one thing Trek has never wanted to really talk about and address is what happens with a meritocracy when there are quite literal physical differences between the species.

Like given their long age, superior strength, devotion to logic, and clearly superior mental capacity - not to mention mind powers - it becomes a real question of how any human could ever outrank a Vulcan and why every spaceship isn't being captained by a Vulcan. Or why wasn't Data running the Enterprise considering his merits? If Betazeds can read minds, why isn't every ship given one at the comm (or in first officer) to provide superior coordination and intel on enemies?

It does make you wonder that genetic engineering not only isn't more prevalent in the federation, but is downright required by every world just so they can all keep up in the meritocracy.

Of course rather than actually look at this possibility, ST: Discovery just went and said "lolz, you can be any species if you LARP hard enough, screw genetics!"

(Of course had Discovery actually faced the issue, then they might have had something interesting to say about the modern day issue of race realism and what population genetics is learning...)
 
Flexo said:
Not disagreeing with you, but one thing Trek has never wanted to really talk about and address is what happens with a meritocracy when there are quite literal physical differences between the species.

Like given their long age, superior strength, devotion to logic, and clearly superior mental capacity - not to mention mind powers - it becomes a real question of how any human could ever outrank a Vulcan and why every spaceship isn't being captained by a Vulcan. Or why wasn't Data running the Enterprise considering his merits? If Betazeds can read minds, why isn't every ship given one at the comm (or in first officer) to provide superior coordination and intel on enemies?

It does make you wonder that genetic engineering not only isn't more prevalent in the federation, but is downright required by every world just so they can all keep up in the meritocracy.

Of course rather than actually look at this possibility, ST: Discovery just went and said "lolz, you can be any species if you LARP hard enough, screw genetics!"

(Of course had Discovery actually faced the issue, then they might have had something interesting to say about the modern day issue of race realism and what population genetics is learning...)
Click to expand...
See, tho, there WAS a reason we did so well in Starfleet. Because humans were part of it's founding mission to poke at anything and everything we find to gain even greater understanding of the galaxy, ourselves, and science in general. There was one thing we had that Vulcans truly lacked, something they gave up when they embraced the teachings of Surak. Naked ambition.
We humans accomplish more faster than any other species simply due to our psychological drive to know absolutely fucking everything and our inability to accept that maybe we can't. Vulcans don't find exploration for it's own sake practical, rather they tried to approach it from a pragmatic standpoint. We humans will land on a resource barren, uninhabitable world just to see what the fuck might possibly be on it. Vulcans, with their lifespans and logic, have no problem undertaking a 500 year project to advance between warp 1 and warp 2, but a human scientist wants to goddamn see this shit right the fuck now before he dies.
It took the Vulcans 1,000 years to rebuild their technology after their last major war and discover Warp drive. Humans managed it in less than a century. Not to mention that of all the species in Trek, they find us humans the least predictable.
Klingons, Cardassians, Romulans, Ferengi, all the other races can be reasonably expected to act much the same way. But humans are so insanely varied that the Vulcans find it almost impossible to actually predict what any given human might say or do more than any other race. We're constantly surprising them even after a century of experience with us.

Not to mention we breed like fucking rabbits compared to Vulcans and expand out of necessity faster than any other species, colonizing shitloads of planets. Kirk stated we (the federation) had spread across thousands, thought Picard stated the Federation was spread across 150 "member" planets. But given Kirk's statements, and the fact that the Vulcans only managed to colonize a canon 26 planets despite their substantial advantages both technological and in time, I'd say humanity has spread across a substantial number of planets.

And don't forget, we humans are willing to take risks that Vulcans aren't because of out impulsiveness, our emotions/ Vulcans would be content to take the safer route even if it was the slower one. Humans don't deal with that pussy shit. Damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead! Might as well be our motto as a species.

Basically we outperform them because we outnumber them, and we're willing to do things they aren't to get results right the fuck now.
 
ExceptionallyExceptional said:
And don't forget, we humans are willing to take risks that Vulcans aren't because of out impulsiveness, our emotions/ Vulcans would be content to take the safer route even if it was the slower one. Humans don't deal with that pussy shit. Damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead! Might as well be our motto as a species.

Basically we outperform them because we outnumber them, and we're willing to do things they aren't to get results right the fuck now.
Click to expand...
inferior.jpg

Nah just playin' with ya. Semi-seriously though, your point is nonetheless one that actually proves the better idea would be to have a Vulcan captain overlooking a human (and the rest) crew. Because the captain is the one you want to protect and preserve, so heck yeah, you need something done? Go send the first officer and some expendable redshirts down to do stupid human things. Capt Spock will then be there to pick up the bones and explain to the next team what they should avoid to end up like the previous team. ;)

So yeah, if the federation was a true meritocracy (instead of a dream written by human-centric writers) then all the ships would be captained by Vulcans and stuffed full of cannon fodder human crew members to do exactly what you bring up - which you want in the crew, not in the captain.

Though that would have been another interesting possibility for Borg origins. That originally it was the Delta Quadrant federation. But they had the problem of meritocracy so they started using cybernetic enhancements to help weaker species get the leg up on the stronger ones. Then people realized you could use those to link brains together to speed up communication and efficiency....
 
Flexo said:
So yeah, if the federation was a true meritocracy (instead of a dream written by human-centric writers) then all the ships would be captained by Vulcans and stuffed full of cannon fodder human crew members to do exactly what you bring up - which you want in the crew, not in the captain.
Click to expand...
In the true meritocratic future, humans have learned to accept their inherent inferiority to some races, and accept their rightful place in the hierarchy of species. Long live the Dominion Covenant Federation.
 
Flexo said:
View attachment 1225692

Nah just playin' with ya. Semi-seriously though, your point is nonetheless one that actually proves the better idea would be to have a Vulcan captain overlooking a human (and the rest) crew. Because the captain is the one you want to protect and preserve, so heck yeah, you need something done? Go send the first officer and some expendable redshirts down to do stupid human things. Capt Spock will then be there to pick up the bones and explain to the next team what they should avoid to end up like the previous team. ;)

So yeah, if the federation was a true meritocracy (instead of a dream written by human-centric writers) then all the ships would be captained by Vulcans and stuffed full of cannon fodder human crew members to do exactly what you bring up - which you want in the crew, not in the captain.
Click to expand...

and the second a vulcan would be a cunt again during a first contact leading to decades/centuries of war most of their positions would probably re-evaluated...
biggest problem is that star trek is still a tv series and set up as such. nowhere does it make sense to have your highest officers get on possible dangerous away missions, let alone a whole group of them - it's a completely stupid procedure all things considered (sure, you could argue that the 24st centutry is "safer" and no one is gonna start shit with the enterprise around, but exploring a possible dangerous site where no one knows what happened or it's gonna do? nah).
same reason we only ever have human captains and his ensemble, and non-humans appear pigeon-holed in their characteristics because the few times we see them they have to fit that mold, or why a "lore-centric" episode dealing with alien federation members is almost always drama to not appear boring and basically an exposition dump.

there are probably quite a few vulcans and other species in charge, depending what they're good at as a character, which race is part of (which would never fly for woketards). vulcans probably in a lot of science positions (not because spock was a science officer), it simply makes sense. same as worf for security etc., but even voyager had the sense to switch it up to not fall for the perceived stereo-typing by having a vulcan in charge of security, but it's still only a glimpse through a very specific lense.

I will forever be salty that ENT was canceled before shran could join and we get some quality human-vulcan-andorian bants up to showing how the andorians joined the federation and why.
and it's one of the reasons nutrek (and modern writing) is so shit as it is - once a character is established with the usual tropes from then on he's the cardboard version of that character and that's it, there isn't really anything done with it, not showing the past how he came to be the person he is and dealing with it - unless it's for a dramatic "twist" - and rushed through because we need explosions and space fights instead of boring talking. there is zero growth, either from back to now or over the course and no way to get attached to those characters.
 
Flexo said:
Not disagreeing with you, but one thing Trek has never wanted to really talk about and address is what happens with a meritocracy when there are quite literal physical differences between the species.

Like given their long age, superior strength, devotion to logic, and clearly superior mental capacity - not to mention mind powers - it becomes a real question of how any human could ever outrank a Vulcan and why every spaceship isn't being captained by a Vulcan. Or why wasn't Data running the Enterprise considering his merits? If Betazeds can read minds, why isn't every ship given one at the comm (or in first officer) to provide superior coordination and intel on enemies?

It does make you wonder that genetic engineering not only isn't more prevalent in the federation, but is downright required by every world just so they can all keep up in the meritocracy.

Of course rather than actually look at this possibility, ST: Discovery just went and said "lolz, you can be any species if you LARP hard enough, screw genetics!"

(Of course had Discovery actually faced the issue, then they might have had something interesting to say about the modern day issue of race realism and what population genetics is learning...)
Click to expand...

In addition to everything else, it may also be a question of numbers. How many Vulcans are there in Star Fleet vs. how many humans? And it's not just a question of raw populations but how many Vulcan's want to go bouncing around in Space vs. work a quiet productive life at home and marry the person they're assigned? T'pol lost her marriage slot because of her posting on Enterprise!

As regards Data, I don't think he wanted to be Captain either. He wanted to study and learn from humans. When asked to be Captain he dutifully did it and did it well, but he could quite credibly argue it is easier to learn human behaviour as part of the group than leading it.

Finally, as regards genetics - Earth tore itself a part in the Eugenics Wars. Kirk's conclusion may be the typical view when he says: "we learned that with heightened gifts comes heightened ambition". I think humanity feels pretty good about itself in TOS and TNG time periods and thinks genetic enhancement is just rocking the boat. They'll eliminate deformities and genetic illnesses and call it a day.
 
Yeah there was that TOS with Spock and the crew on the planet with the cavemen and he logics everything right into the fucking ground.
In Trek the ambition and drive that makes humans flawed is also their magic power. Like nobody's lying game is on part with the humans'
 
Overly Serious said:
As regards Data, I don't think he wanted to be Captain either. He wanted to study and learn from humans. When asked to be Captain he dutifully did it and did it well, but he could quite credibly argue it is easier to learn human behaviour as part of the group than leading it.
Click to expand...
On this I can quite disagree, because Data got to be victim to some old fashioned prejudice. HE was the one to ask Picard to give him command. Was hoping for a clip but I can't find one, so from the transcript of S5E01, "Redemption part 2."

DATA: May I ask a question, sir, of a personal nature?
PICARD: Yes.
DATA: I am confused. Why have I not been assigned to command a ship in the fleet, sir?
PICARD: Well, I felt that you would be needed here. Why do you ask?
DATA: You have commented on the lack of senior officers available for this mission. I believe my twenty six years of Starfleet service qualifies me for such a post. However, if you do not believe the time has arrived for an android to command a starship, perhaps I should address myself to improving my--
PICARD: Commander. I believe the starship Sutherland will need a captain. I can think of no one better suited to the task than you.
DATA: Thank you, sir.

Overly Serious said:
Finally, as regards genetics - Earth tore itself a part in the Eugenics Wars. Kirk's conclusion may be the typical view when he says: "we learned that with heightened gifts comes heightened ambition". I think humanity feels pretty good about itself in TOS and TNG time periods and thinks genetic enhancement is just rocking the boat. They'll eliminate deformities and genetic illnesses and call it a day.
Click to expand...
(I do love Siddig's performance in that scene.)

EDIT: Some good comments in that video related to our discussion.
1586705855785.png


XYZpdq said:
Yeah there was that TOS with Spock and the crew on the planet with the cavemen and he logics everything right into the fucking ground.
Click to expand...

I seriously cannot narrow down which episode you are referring to. lol
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom