Star Trek - Space: The Final Frontier

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Has anyone seen the Major Grin YouTube channel? It keeps getting recommended to me, so I checked it out. Some videos are pretty damning. They compare NuTrek with real Trek using interviews and clips. Here's one video:
 
Love Soze said:
Has anyone seen the Major Grin YouTube channel? It keeps getting recommended to me, so I checked it out. Some videos are pretty damning. They compare NuTrek with real Trek using interviews and clips. Here's one video:
https://youtube.com/watch?v=mWolRJ5TMz8
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Yeah. He's been on the thread many times. Subscribe and give him some love.
 
tigergrinder said:
DS9 would never have made it as a series if it weren't for Odo and Quark.

There. I said, I'd say it again.
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Surely, DS9 being a well-written show, with a great full cast (*including* Quark and Odo) helped...

That's like saying TNG would have never made it as a series without Worf or Data.
 
UnKillFill said:
Surely, DS9 being a well-written show, with a great full cast (*including* Quark and Odo) helped...

That's like saying TNG would have never made it as a series without Worf or Data.
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Worf, maybe. Data? I doubt it. Data was pretty central to a lot of shit and the Enterprise in general leaned on him a whole lot.
 
L50LasPak said:
Yeah I think its really difficult to narrow down which characters were more important than others since the cast had such great chemistry. Hypothetically you could go through the early three seasons and pick out the weaker characters such as early Bashir, but by Way of the Warrior all of the characters were very fleshed out and well-rounded. Maybe with the exception of Kassidy Yates, who I think the writers just had trouble coming up with stuff for her to do. Ezri might count too, but she was a late arrival to the series.
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I'm kinda glad they made Bashir's character more interesting later on with the backstory, but... it didn't work with the guy who played him. I think Alexander Siddig played him fantastically in the beginning-- he was very much like TNG-era Starfleet: all eager and a little innocent, maybe naive, too. Like that episode where he and O'Brien go down to that shitty planet and have to hide out in that bunker full of busted electronics. And the whole time he's just being annoying as hell. It was hilarious. :story:

But Alexander Siddig couldn't convince me that Bashir was brooding and morose and, well... human. Even during the whole genetics episode (when Soup Nazi Babu played his father).

Also has anyone here seen (or brought up) "What We Left Behind"? It's the most eye-opening doc I've ever seen. Because it made me realize how much of a pandering, lefty cunt Ira Steven Behr is. There was a scene where he literally ticked boxes of all the SJW topics the show covered. No wonder the later seasons sucked ass.
 
White Devil said:
Worf, maybe. Data? I doubt it. Data was pretty central to a lot of shit and the Enterprise in general leaned on him a whole lot.
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My point was just, it's silly to say that any good Trek "wouldn't have worked" without any given 2 (great- if not necessarily 'main') characters.

For the record, I *love* Quark and Odo as a comedic pair (and have previously spoken highly of all the multiple great "duos" in DS9 in this very thread even.)
 
UnKillFill said:
My point was just, it's silly to say that any good Trek "wouldn't have worked" without any given 2 (great- if not necessarily 'main') characters.

For the record, I *love* Quark and Odo as a comedic pair (and have previously spoken highly of all the multiple great "duos" in DS9 in this very thread even.)
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I gotta disagree with this specific series. TOS and TNG had their casts act like klutzes and clowns in some episodes, or make an ass of themselves on an alien planet (Kirk pantomiming a horse springs to mind). But to me, DS9 felt like... it felt like they didn't want to jeopardize their characters or the seriousness of the show by doing that. The only times I can think of anyone doing that are Dax and Kira dressed up as medieval maidens when they meet Worf, and Bashir and O'Brien dicking around with a dart board or their Holosuite adventures.

Imagine! Imagine if, for a second, Sisko fucked up and accidentally threw that damn baseball into someone's storefront and broke everything. Instead, he's always the calm, collected captain, or he's the prophet, or he's the dad. Although there was one moment I liked, where Odo's talking to him (it was that ep where he wants to go out with Kira) and then he clams up and turns to leave, and Sisko sputters and goes "W-wait, come back!" I liked that, it was like a tiny spark of exasperation coming through. Made him feel real.

Quark and Odo always felt real, right from the get-go.
 
Miller said:
No, that's the one with their first encounter with the Borg.
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I actually rewatched Q Who recently and was looking for an excuse to bring it up. I have to say, it is easily my personal favorite Borg-related Star Trek episode. I might even be so bold as to say its superior to Best of Both Worlds. I love the setup, Q's character really comes into his own and is no longer so bombastic. De Lancie also gives a more subtle performance than he'd eventually become known for in Voyager.

Regarding the Borg in that episode, even if you already know everything about them the pacing of the episode really excels at making them this creeping threat. Even though I know the episode like the back of my hand I still get that sense of dread as the threat builds and the crew keeps finding weirder things out about the Borg.

Ron Jones outdoes himself with a full length score for the episode. Its easily one of the best episode scores of the franchise, and a lot of the battle cues and sequences were remixed for Best of Both Worlds. There's a reason why there are Ron Jones purists out there. The man was a genius and the episode would not be the same at all without his score, especially the subtler tracks that play when they go on the Borg ship.

I think if anyone is looking to get a friend or relative into TNG, Q Who is a very good place to start.
 
Does anyone have a link to Robert Meyer Burnett's stream about the Ceti Alpha 5 series? He had to unlist the stream after he got a DMCA from the CBS lawyers.
 
tigergrinder said:
Also has anyone here seen (or brought up) "What We Left Behind"? It's the most eye-opening doc I've ever seen. Because it made me realize how much of a pandering, lefty cunt Ira Steven Behr is. There was a scene where he literally ticked boxes of all the SJW topics the show covered. No wonder the later seasons sucked ass.
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It got talked about when it came out, yeah. It did have some nice parts, like the HD scenes, the writers throwing around ideas for a S8E1 (even if I don't really like what they came up with) and a 4chan /trek/ tripfag showing up in a fan interview clip was hilarious. But it was lacking in several parts, mainly
  • Ira being so fucking full of himself
  • Farrell still crying over Berman being mean to her (though the hilarity of the doc never once naming Berman as being the reason why was hilarious)
  • the SJW bullet points scene was embarrassing and another case of Ira jerking himself off
  • while it was nice they got so much of the cast together for this, you really missed Avery Brooks (all the clips were from older interviews) and I personally wanted to see Louise Fletcher as well. There were others as well, but these two I'd say were the main ones
  • your opinion may vary on this but I got the feeling Ira was kinda dickish towards Marc Alaimo and the editing of the doc didn't paint Marc in a great light
  • the overall structure was disjointed. Every single Trek series could have a doc much longer than what we got, in several parts, even. There's so much to talk about starting from the casting decisions, make-up, writer's room, the drama, the message they were conveying etc etc. WWLF was too brief, like it was an intro to a much bigger story.
 
L50LasPak said:
I actually rewatched Q Who recently and was looking for an excuse to bring it up. I have to say, it is easily my personal favorite Borg-related Star Trek episode. I might even be so bold as to say its superior to Best of Both Worlds. I love the setup, Q's character really comes into his own and is no longer so bombastic. De Lancie also gives a more subtle performance than he'd eventually become known for in Voyager.
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Fun fact: When Riker chews out Q in the briefing room - apparently the original script called for Q to do an over the top, bombastic, old-testament kind of reply. It was John's idea to have the character do the "oh please."

So yeah, we may give actors shit, but sometimes they really know how to come through and make a character better.

trekkor said:
the overall structure was disjointed. Every single Trek series could have a doc much longer than what we got, in several parts, even. There's so much to talk about starting from the casting decisions, make-up, writer's room, the drama, the message they were conveying etc etc. WWLF was too brief, like it was an intro to a much bigger story.
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Very much this and I also grew fascinated in the after credits bit where the crew at the table talked about rendering DS9 in HD - because I honestly thought it would be a lot less work. I hadn't realized how much raw effort it would take.

And really now I kind of wish I had gotten the TNG blu rays in support but Hollywood keeps screwing over the customer instead of being honest with us. (Remember when the DVDs first came out and were ungodly expensive per season?)

I do love the documentary just for the S8 writers room scene. It's immensely fascinating and I would love to see a comparison of it to the Discovery, Picard, or Lower Decks room. At least with DS9, you could see how each person involved brought a new perspective and rather than fighting over stupid stuff, they would really mold and shape the story. When one brought up an objection, you could see it was in the interest of making the story as good as it could be and not for ego or agenda.

I really wish we had gotten to see them ALL work together. RIP Michael Pillar.
 
trekkor said:
It got talked about when it came out, yeah. It did have some nice parts, like the HD scenes, the writers throwing around ideas for a S8E1 (even if I don't really like what they came up with) and a 4chan /trek/ tripfag showing up in a fan interview clip was hilarious. But it was lacking in several parts, mainly
  • Ira being so fucking full of himself
  • Farrell still crying over Berman being mean to her (though the hilarity of the doc never once naming Berman as being the reason why was hilarious)
  • the SJW bullet points scene was embarrassing and another case of Ira jerking himself off
  • while it was nice they got so much of the cast together for this, you really missed Avery Brooks (all the clips were from older interviews) and I personally wanted to see Louise Fletcher as well. There were others as well, but these two I'd say were the main ones
  • your opinion may vary on this but I got the feeling Ira was kinda dickish towards Marc Alaimo and the editing of the doc didn't paint Marc in a great light
  • the overall structure was disjointed. Every single Trek series could have a doc much longer than what we got, in several parts, even. There's so much to talk about starting from the casting decisions, make-up, writer's room, the drama, the message they were conveying etc etc. WWLF was too brief, like it was an intro to a much bigger story.
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YES THANK YOU! Yeah holy shit, that whole writing sequence was just... what the fuck was that? Ugh and those embarrassing cuts to Aron Eisenberg and they'd bleep him out and he'd get up and pretend to storm off, and they'd all giggle and laugh like it was God's gift to comedy. And the shit-quality storyboard where nobody looked like their respective characters? You know some tumblrina out there nagged and nagged until she got that job.

I don't blame Avery and Louise for not wanting to join in on this shitshow. I've seen another actress from a completely different show do that, because she felt she was being typecast. As for Farrell, I kinda felt bad for her. She wasn't that great an actress, got pushed around, and then made the mistake of trying to ask for more money based on that little talent. What was even worse was how Ira just went, "Well if I had known about it, I would've stopped it". And then just carried on the interview with the other actors! Talk about being blatantly unsympathetic! It was your fucking show, dude! And yeah same with Marc! I remember him feeling hurt about how they treated his character (and himself) and Ira kinda laughed it off.

I fucking loved when the cast read out those criticisms, in that gay "mean tweets" fashion. "Fuck me, a fucking tailor." And even Armin agreed with one of the criticisms! Someone wrote, "I got sick of how the 'aliens' just had forehead ridges", and he went, "Well... I did, too." :story:
 
Chilson said:
You needed the whole horse and caboodle to make DS9 work and they had it all. I can't imagine the series without any one of the characters except maybe Jake, but he still gets his great episodes and works towards developing Sisko's character.
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Jake is by faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaar the most tolerable Trek-kid of all the series. For one he doesn't wanna be a Starfleet officer so right there you get a lot less cringe right there. He's not obnoxious and he quickly grows into his own. And then you got Nog, who I suppose is a Trek kid (Even tho Aron was in his 20s when he played Nog) and while he's the Starfleet-wanna-be, since he's nothing close to a goodie-two-shoe like Will and uuuuugh Naomi, he still wins me over. And after all he gives us "It's only a Paper Moon" and that's a crazy good episode dealing with shit you almost never see in StarFleet.

And of course, worse kid is Naomi Wildman. It's like they set out to outdo Will as the most irritating character on the show.
 
tigergrinder said:
YES THANK YOU! Yeah holy shit, that whole writing sequence was just... what the fuck was that?
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That is what is called a brainstorming session.

tigergrinder said:
And the shit-quality storyboard where nobody looked like their respective characters?
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They're storyboards. They're not meant to be sold product, just very rough sketches to get things in order. You don't sistine chapel the things up because they're disposable.
 
rabo said:
And of course, worse kid is Naomi Wildman. It's like they set out to outdo Will as the most irritating character on the show.
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Yeah but have you seen her lately?
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Is it sad that DeLancie nailed the character of Q again in a show about cartoon horses better than Stewart played Picard in his literal canon sequel series?
 
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