Star Trek - Space: The Final Frontier

[UnKillFill]

Didn't Harry want to get rid of the Klingon chick, tho? I remember watching that episode recently and Neelix specifically steals the Klingon chick's attention away from Harry because he was terrified of being fucked to death.

It also gave me a bit of respect for Neelix because Klingon chicks are fucking beasts in the bedroom. Little bastard is tougher than he looks.

They're beasts outside of the bedroom as well. Part of the Klingon courtship ritual is the female trying to beat the shit out of the male and screaming while he tries to read her "love poetry" and not die.

An alternative reading of this scene that I recently heard (but don't personally subscribe to, because it's Season 2 basically feral beast Worf) is that Worf is intentionally giving Wesley bad dating advice to fuck with him, which would be funny enough. Take your pick.

 

[White Devil]

I want to believe it's just Worf fucking with Wesley, because Wesley is a little cunt that deserves to be fucked with.

 

[Uranus Pink]

Didn't Harry want to get rid of the Klingon chick, tho? I remember watching that episode recently and Neelix specifically steals the Klingon chick's attention away from Harry because he was terrified of being fucked to death.

It also gave me a bit of respect for Neelix because Klingon chicks are fucking beasts in the bedroom. Little bastard is tougher than he looks.

Considering Quark had a literal laundry list of major injuries from doing the dirty with his Klingon wife. Neelix is built like a brick shithouse from doing an all nighter with one without a scratch.

 

[Chilson]

Considering Quark had a literal laundry list of major injuries from doing the dirty with his Klingon wife. Neelix is built like a brick shithouse from doing an all nighter with one without a scratch.

When modern trek is so bad I miss fucking Neelix of all things...god should just smite the star trek franchise post-enterprise from existence at this point.

 

[Uranus Pink]

When modern trek is so bad I miss fucking Neelix of all things...god should just smite the star trek franchise post-enterprise from existence at this point.

Neelix along with rest of the crew always had been at the mercy of the writers for every single episode. Just most of VOY writers wrote him terribly for most episodes. But when someone competent does writes for him the contrast is astounding and shows just how much the character and the actor have been wasted.

 

[Flexo]

He turned down hanky panky with Seven of Nine, dude might not be gay, but he ain't straight either.

Oh yes, there's a reason that one of SFDebris' longest running gags is that Harry Kim is either gay for Tom Paris (thus marrying his daughter) or so messed up sexually it is the Tarrasque for psychologists.

 

[UnKillFill]

Oh yes, there's a reason that one of SFDebris' longest running gags is that Harry Kim is either gay for Tom Paris (thus marrying his daughter) or so messed up sexually it is the Tarrasque for psychologists.

Ok, good. I knew that you were aware of all of that my evil(?) robot friend. Which is why I was slightly confused by your last post about a Voyager book I haven't read, and probably never will...

FYI that was Harry Kim's story in the Voyager book "Pathways."

Pathways

The untold story of Captain Janeway's crew! Pathways is a Pocket VOY novel written by Jeri Taylor. Published by Pocket Books, it was first released in hardback in August 1998.

memory-alpha.fandom.com

He has a best friend he hung out with that becomes totally broken hearted when Harry finds his girl. Turns out the friend was totally gay for him and thought Harry Kim was too.

So 'Poor Dumb Harry's "best friend" in this book wasn't Tom, right? I kind of guessed you were talking about some pre-Voyager "best friend", but I still don't get why Harry didn't tell that gay friend dude that he had a girlfriend before... unless it was a relationship that started like *right* before the first episode of Voyager- which, I guess I don't actually know whether it did or not, haha.

 

[RomanesEuntDomus]

Neelix along with rest of the crew always had been at the mercy of the writers for every single episode. Just most of VOY writers wrote him terribly for most episodes. But when someone competent does writes for him the contrast is astounding and shows just how much the character and the actor have been wasted.

I really like the episode where Neelix meets the guy who built the weapon that wiped out one of Talaxia's moons. There's a particularly bad example of technobabble in the episode, but Neelix talking about his PTSD after a major war crime was a moving episode nonetheless.

 

[rabo]

I really like the episode where Neelix meets the guy who built the weapon that wiped out one of Talaxia's moons. There's a particularly bad example of technobabble in the episode, but Neelix talking about his PTSD after a major war crime was a moving episode nonetheless.

He was played by James Sloyan who played Odo's "dad" Dr Mora Pol on Deep Nine really great actor.

Also I've come to a horrible realization; I think I'm fonder of Voyager than TNG. (DS9 still number one!)
I think it's simply because Voyager aired when I finally became a fan of the series and thus I watched the pilot and it's finale as they aired. I feel more nostalgic watching it than I do while watching TNG. It's not to say it's better than TNG. it really isn't. But when I see the crew, I feel more like I'm seeing old friends. It's a weird feeling.

 

[RomanesEuntDomus]

Also I've come to a horrible realization; I think I'm fonder of Voyager than TNG. (DS9 still number one!)
I think it's simply because Voyager aired when I finally became a fan of the series and thus I watched the pilot and it's finale as they aired. I feel more nostalgic watching it than I do while watching TNG. It's not to say it's better than TNG. it really isn't. But when I see the crew, I feel more like I'm seeing old friends. It's a weird feeling.

I'm in the same boat. Voyager was the first Trek I watched start to finish, so I have a soft spot for it. Even with its many flaws, I find it enjoyable and I really love the characters, even Neelix has his moments.
Poor continuity, poor writing, yeah, there's plenty of that, but we also get The Doctor and even Seven of Nine, who was supposed to be eyecandy, had amazing episodes and her interactions with the Doctor are very nicely done, too.

I think Voyager would be one of the best blueprints for a new Trek show, if it managed to avoid the pitfalls that Voyager fell to.
More continuity, more consistency and really take the premise of "Mixed crew of Starfleet and non-Starfleet far from home on their journey home/to explore" to its limits. Voyager ignored any potential for conflict between Maquis and Starfleet for the most part and most episodes boiled down to Alien-of-the-week or Anomaly-of-the-week kind of stuff.

Man, I really hope someone, someday will make a Star Trek the way we used to enjoy in the good old days of TOS and TNG, with optimism and people acting nice. I fear that STD and STP will soil the franchise and everything in the future will attempt to be gritty and edgy with people saying "fuck" a lot and Hostel-style torture porn.

 

[L50LasPak]

Also I've come to a horrible realization; I think I'm fonder of Voyager than TNG. (DS9 still number one!)
I think it's simply because Voyager aired when I finally became a fan of the series and thus I watched the pilot and it's finale as they aired. I feel more nostalgic watching it than I do while watching TNG. It's not to say it's better than TNG. it really isn't. But when I see the crew, I feel more like I'm seeing old friends. It's a weird feeling.

I feel that way about TOS just because it had a greater presence in my childhood. It was cheaper to find on VHS and my dad taped it off the Sci-Fi channel whenever they would do marathons of it. There must've been some kind of syndication tossup in the early 2000s because I saw TOS pop up all over the place on various networks that you wouldn't expect to be airing it like G4TV. I still caught TNG when it was on, but it seemed to be competing with Voyager and Enterprise for daytime slots.

 

[Cyril Sneer]

Picard is still a terrible show like STD all around and Lower Decks is just mediocre compared to the two.

Trek and Morty is, I would say, at least as bad as the other two if not worse, since its one and only plot appears to be "Star Trek thing happens, Ensign Straight White Male attempts to respond like a proper Starfleet officer, gets dumped on for trying by Ensign Mary-Sue and the universe as a whole."

Considering Quark had a literal laundry list of major injuries from doing the dirty with his Klingon wife. Neelix is built like a brick shithouse from doing an all nighter with one without a scratch.

Ah, Klingon chicks...

 

[L50LasPak]

Trek and Morty is, I would say, at least as bad as the other two if not worse, since its one and only plot appears to be "Star Trek thing happens, Ensign Straight White Male attempts to respond like a proper Starfleet officer, gets dumped on for trying by Ensign Mary-Sue and the universe as a whole."

This is where I go turncoat on this thread because I got bored enough to actually watch all the way through Lower Decks. I have to say, anyone who repeats this opinion didn't give the show a fair shake. That said, its still not what I would call good. If anything its more like a stack of pasted together references, some of them astonishingly obscure (I only got them because I wasted a lot of my teenage years browsing Ex Astris Scientia).

Mariner is an extremely annoying, overly competent character for the first half of the series. That said, as the series develops, it becomes abundantly clear that Boimler is also an extreme dweeb. This has the undesirable effect of making both of the main characters thoroughly unlikeable. I kept watching because I enjoyed the antics of Tendi, Rutherford and the senior staff. The two main characters act like a huge anchor that drags the show down, especially in its early parts. Mariner finally gets put in her place in a few episodes by the senior command staff, and the last two episodes of the series adequately deconstruct her character. They also wisely use the much more likeable Tendi and Rutherford to do this, while Boimler is off being ineffectual as usual.

I get the feeling that Mariner's character was deliberately exaggerated and Boimler was added to try and appeal more to the adult humor of the show. Tendi and Rutherford act much more like Star Trek parody characters than their counterparts, and it shows. Throughout the course of the show its clear that a lot more thought was put into just about everyone except the main two characters, and at the end

Spoiler

Boimler leaves the show, meaning Mariner has nobody to thoughtlessly torment anymore

Season 2 is going to show whether or not the writers of Lower Decks are actually smarter than the mistakes of the first show. I'm willing to be optimistic since there's an attention to detail in the show I didn't expect to find and give them the benefit of the doubt.

 

[Flexo]

Ok, good. I knew that you were aware of all of that my evil(?) robot friend. Which is why I was slightly confused by your last post about a Voyager book I haven't read, and probably never will...

So 'Poor Dumb Harry's "best friend" in this book wasn't Tom, right? I kind of guessed you were talking about some pre-Voyager "best friend", but I still don't get why Harry didn't tell that gay friend dude that he had a girlfriend before... unless it was a relationship that started like *right* before the first episode of Voyager- which, I guess I don't actually know whether it did or not, haha.

I read the book. It's a massive prequel series to Voyager. Harry's gay friend is an academy chum IIRC and they are hanging out during Harry's single period. It's Harry meeting and falling in love with Lily (was that her name?) That ruins the relationship and brings it all down.

And yes per the book IIRC that girl was Harry's first and only girl.

I'll try to post photos of the book later if I can find it.

 

[Uranus Pink]

I'm in the same boat. Voyager was the first Trek I watched start to finish, so I have a soft spot for it. Even with its many flaws, I find it enjoyable and I really love the characters, even Neelix has his moments.
Poor continuity, poor writing, yeah, there's plenty of that, but we also get The Doctor and even Seven of Nine, who was supposed to be eyecandy, had amazing episodes and her interactions with the Doctor are very nicely done, too.

I think Voyager would be one of the best blueprints for a new Trek show, if it managed to avoid the pitfalls that Voyager fell to.
More continuity, more consistency and really take the premise of "Mixed crew of Starfleet and non-Starfleet far from home on their journey home/to explore" to its limits. Voyager ignored any potential for conflict between Maquis and Starfleet for the most part and most episodes boiled down to Alien-of-the-week or Anomaly-of-the-week kind of stuff.

For me Voyager was better than TNG for it didn't have the pretentious holier-than-thou attitude in the show and with TNG fans. For all of VOY faults at least Janeway and crew didn't sit on their thumbs letting people to species die when they can try to save some of them.

Until Star Trek shows us why the Prime Directive must be obeyed above all else instead of suggestive guideline back in TOS, fuck the Prime Directive. Definitively would like a movie, mini or limited series showing us where, why, how and who the Federation made contact with and the resulting lesson learned being, no contact with pre-warp species as they will fuck the Federation over good and hard.

 

[Chilson]

For me Voyager was better than TNG for it didn't have the pretentious holier-than-thou attitude in the show and with TNG fans. For all of VOY faults at least Janeway and crew didn't sit on their thumbs letting people to species die when they can try to save some of them.

Until Star Trek shows us why the Prime Directive must be obeyed above all else instead of suggestive guideline back in TOS, fuck the Prime Directive. Definitively would like a movie, mini or limited series showing us where, why, how and who the Federation made contact with and the resulting lesson learned being, no contact with pre-warp species as they will fuck the Federation over good and hard.

Enterprise touched on this by providing an example of two sentient pre-warp species that inhabited one planet.

The dominant species basically corralled the lesser species as a sort of subservient race. However, both were happy with this arrangement as the dominant species cared for and provided all the lesser species needs if they had any.

The ultimate focal point of the episode is that the dominant species was dying out due a genetic disorder that was ravaging their whole race. The death of the dominant species would have opened up an avenue for the lesser species to rise and become the dominant species on the planet.

Furthermore, it was shown that the lesser species had the capability both genetically and intellectually to surpass the dominant race if they were only allowed to do so. Which they obviously are not when they have no challenge and everything is provided for them by the dominant species.

Now, the Enterprise could provide a cure for this genetic disorder or hand over warp technology so the dominant species could go and find others who will give them the cure, but the crew is split on whether they should hand anything over for obvious reasons.

It ends with a middle ground solution that I won't go into. But, the core idea of the prime directive is not to influence a society that is not capable of warp travel due to such influence causing unforeseen repercussions that could drastically harm other species (be they native or alien to the planet) or the planet's natural habitat. The logic being that if a species or a member of a species is meant to die from "natural" (in the most literal sense of the word) causes that are not caused or influenced by other sentient alien stellar races then it is out of the federations hands to interfere with nature.

If they had a warp drive, then yeah the federation would be all up in that because at that point a species is seen as mature enough to no longer be protected from the rest of the galaxy and accept the consequences. Much like a child turning into an adult at the age of 18 (at least in America) they are now held responsible for their actions and can make decisions on their own.

Now, the entire history of trek has plenty of examples of captains bending or even breaking these rules precisely because there are always exceptions to any rule. It has led to positive and, more importantly, negative outcomes on enough occasions to warrant it being a standard rule however.

With that said, I do agree that TNG does some pretty retarded grandstanding. Picard wanted to save a crystalline being that ate all life on a planet because it was "natural" for fucks sake.

 

[RomanesEuntDomus]

My best guess: Prime Directive was implemented about a week or two after the Federation found out someone had sold warp technology to the Ferengi and big lobed weirdos started scamming the entire quadrant.

 

[Cyril Sneer]

Mariner is an extremely annoying, overly competent character for the first half of the series. That said, as the series develops, it becomes abundantly clear that Boimler is also an extreme dweeb.

 

[AnOminous]

My best guess: Prime Directive was implemented about a week or two after the Federation found out someone had sold warp technology to the Ferengi and big lobed weirdos started scamming the entire quadrant.

They probably swindled the technology out of the first Federation ship they encountered for three bars of gold-pressed latinum and to add insult to injury, they were counterfeit.

 

[Flexo]

They probably swindled the technology out of the first Federation ship they encountered for three bars of gold-pressed latinum and to add insult to injury, they were counterfeit.

It wasn't the federation but IIRC that is literally the tale of how they did it in the legends and tales of the ferengi book.