Star Trek - Space: The Final Frontier

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Been reflecting on Voyager and something weird happens. Neelix started off obnoxious enough that I wished they would write him off the show.
By the time they actually did write him off I wished they hadn't. I'd grown to actually like that annoying little gremlin.
 
ExceptionallyExceptional said:
Been reflecting on Voyager and something weird happens. Neelix started off obnoxious enough that I wished they would write him off the show.
By the time they actually did write him off I wished they hadn't. I'd grown to actually like that annoying little gremlin.
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You might say you took the Tuvok route.

All joking aside, while I get that most people dislike him, I do have a soft spot for the guy... I also always enjoyed him rummaging in the background in his neat little kitchen. Say what you want about him being obnoxious, at least he was not yet another stoic starfleet-type, so he did -quite literally- spice things up. And his "Flight of the Phoenix" inspired episode with that space elevator is a quite entertaining.
 
RomanesEuntDomus said:
You might say you took the Tuvok route.

All joking aside, while I get that most people dislike him, I do have a soft spot for the guy... I also always enjoyed him rummaging in the background in his neat little kitchen. Say what you want about him being obnoxious, at least he was not yet another stoic starfleet-type, so he did -quite literally- spice things up. And his "Flight of the Phoenix" inspired episode with that space elevator is a quite entertaining.
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I don't think I ever disliked Neelix, but I can somewhat relate to "wanted him gone until he was" part about his relationship with Kes where it certainly was gross and kinda statutory rape, yet when she dumps him in that terrible episode it was much worse because Neelix, even if albeit a bit jealous and overprotective (But in Tom's case he was 100% justified) he was clearly crazy about her and not really gross about it. But writers and networks wanted to let Kes explore romances so they had her dump him while possessed and just, you know, never addressed it again and just took it for granted.

I would have liked to seen that awkward conversation:
"So, sweetie, now that you got that bad man outside of you, are we back together you did break up with me when he was already influencing you."
"Yeah, Neelix, but I don't know, I think feel this was a good move for both of us."
"Huh... Okay, if.. if that's what you want..."
"Thanks Neelix, I know you'd understand, now I do have to meet Ensign Tabor and Lt Ayala in the holodeck for a while, don't wait up."

She honestly came off a total bitch dumping him and just added one more reason why I wanted her off the show. The writers/network really fucked Jenifer Lien over.
 
rabo said:
She honestly came off a total bitch dumping him and just added one more reason why I wanted her off the show. The writers/network really fucked Jenifer Lien over.
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Wasn't she possessed by the spirit of a dead warlord when she dumped him? Afterward there was some lines about Kes needing the revaluate all her relationships after such a trauma.
 
ditto said:
Wasn't she possessed by the spirit of a dead warlord when she dumped him? Afterward there was some lines about Kes needing the revaluate all her relationships after such a trauma.
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Yeah but I legit don't remember her saying anything about that and I just saw the episode again a week ago.
 
rabo said:
Yeah but I legit don't remember her saying anything about that and I just saw the episode again a week ago.
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The line I'm thinking of looks to be at the very end of the episode, when she's talking with Tuvok
KES: Everything seems so different now. My thoughts and perceptions, even my relationships with my closest friends. You, the Doctor, Neelix. How can I go back to my normal life as if nothing ever happened?
TUVOK: You cannot. This experience will force you to adapt. You are no longer the same person, and the course of your life will change as a result. Where that new course leads is up to you.
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Such a blink-or-you'll-miss-it moment.
ExceptionallyExceptional said:
By the time they actually did write him off I wished they hadn't. I'd grown to actually like that annoying little gremlin.
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His character had some great moments, much more than it deserved tbh. The episode with the delta quadrant Cardassians invading Talax was pretty moving.

One other Voyager positive: very little Ferengi. I'd take Neelix over MOOOOGIEEEEE any day.
 
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I guess they tried different things with Kes before giving up. First she was just a cute sidekick, then they wanted to up her role by making her an assistant to the doctor, they broke her out of the relationship with Neelix to add some romance, at some point (before or after, can't remember) they changed her look, they also made her a powerful esper who then poofs into sunlight and vanishes.
She then comes back as a cranky crazy old cat lady to bitch at the crew for no reason, which is easily the worst thing they did to her. They had a decent end of her character arc and then decided to undo that just to turn Kes into a "villain of the episode" trope. Shame.
 
Neelix doesn't deserve a redemption arc. If you like him, I'm not going to judge you or anything, but I always thought he was just awful, and I still do.
 
RomanesEuntDomus said:
I guess they tried different things with Kes before giving up. First she was just a cute sidekick, then they wanted to up her role by making her an assistant to the doctor, they broke her out of the relationship with Neelix to add some romance, at some point (before or after, can't remember) they changed her look, they also made her a powerful esper who then poofs into sunlight and vanishes.
She then comes back as a cranky crazy old cat lady to bitch at the crew for no reason, which is easily the worst thing they did to her. They had a decent end of her character arc and then decided to undo that just to turn Kes into a "villain of the episode" trope. Shame.
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I think the worst part of her arc is when she exposed herself to minors.
ditto said:
The line I'm thinking of looks to be at the very end of the episode, when she's talking with Tuvok

Such a blink-or-you'll-miss-it moment.

His character had some great moments, much more than it deserved tbh. The episode with the delta quadrant Cardassians invading Talax was pretty moving.

One other Voyager positive: very little Ferengi. I'd take Neelix over MOOOOGIEEEEE any day.
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Oh wow, "KES: Everything seems so different now. My thoughts and perceptions, even my relationships with my closest friends. You, the Doctor, Neelix. How can I go back to my normal life as if nothing ever happened?" what a fucking throwaway line that never actually spells it out.
 
RomanesEuntDomus said:
I guess they tried different things with Kes before giving up. First she was just a cute sidekick, then they wanted to up her role by making her an assistant to the doctor, they broke her out of the relationship with Neelix to add some romance, at some point (before or after, can't remember) they changed her look, they also made her a powerful esper who then poofs into sunlight and vanishes.
She then comes back as a cranky crazy old cat lady to bitch at the crew for no reason, which is easily the worst thing they did to her. They had a decent end of her character arc and then decided to undo that just to turn Kes into a "villain of the episode" trope. Shame.
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Yeah Chuck pointed out that Kes kind of ended up being a backup to many other characters on the show.

Nothing against Ethan Phillips, when the man is given the material he can make Neelix shine but so often the writers seemed intent on screwing him up (like the "survival expert" getting someone killed in a survival situation). I actually like the idea that Neelix was a cheerful, happy-go-lucky guy because he had seen some serious shit on the edge of survival in his life and being on Voyager was like winning the lottery and he was just so happy to have even the most minor role (ship's cook) on board because it was such a step up from his old life. The problem is, we needed to then see him "switch back" to that hard edge role during those times when Voyager was like his old life (stranded on a planet - year of hell, etc). It would have really made him a compelling character if you suddenly saw the cheerful morale officer suddenly switch over to a cold hard-ass that could make Garak shiver when the situation called for it.
 
White Devil said:
Same boat, just can't bring myself to be even remotely interested in Voyager.
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And not for lack of trying to enjoy the show. But besides Seven of Nine assimilating all of my ejaculate (lile she does) I have not found the story nearly as engaging. Though many of the individual parts of the show and its scenario are compelling.

Anyway, one of you Janeway fanboys change my mind.
 
Neelix is a pedophile. Ask Kes and Naomi.
Don't @ me.

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I honestly loved Voyager, a few of the characters carried that show on their back. Jainway, Chekotay, 7 of 9, the doctor were all great. Kes was definitely the absolute worst actor on that show, her being replaced by 7 was a godsend. It definitely feels different from the other star treks, probably because you don't have to deal with new visitors every show and Starfleet people coming and going. After hearing people talk about it I fully expected not to like it, but I ended up really enjoying it. A few of the characters were definitely underutilized, Neelix and B'Ellana (the annoying shrill) and Kim come to mind.
 
Lets be real here.

If nu-trek never happened there would not be a whisper of pro-neelix blasphemy to be heard anywhere in this thread or in the internet at large. It, along with every other godawful fuckup in old-trek only looks tolerable compared to the shitshow that is nu-trek

Take Chakotay back when the writers still gave a shit about him.

The torturously painful "DID I MENTION IM NATIVE AMERICAN TODAY CAPTAIN?!" schtick combined with every noble-savage/new-age-injun-hippy stereotype dialled up to a thousand and perforated with the offensive-yet-hilarious factor of the fact the "native american mystic" they hired to write all this backstory/culture shit was in actuality a lily white conman who literally made everything up, would in isolation be seen as the absolute nadir of the franchise given how unlike individual episodes with massively embarrasing cringe, this was something carried through the whole series.

Compared to the shit we see today? its bland at worst and at best its positively fucking charming in a quaint sort of way.

Same with every other old fuckup of the franchise, from the batshit insanity of season 3 of TOS to the insufferably smug new-age masturbation of season 1 of TNG to the godawful frankenstein that was the first two seasons of enterprise. In hindsight that shit is pretty damn watchable given how shit has deteriorated, due both to the quality of current trek and the novelty of seeing what sci-fi TV used to be like in decades past.

Honestly the only exception is Wesley Crusher, who I still fear is due to return to the franchise in one of the coming cartoons
 
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