Star Trek - Space: The Final Frontier

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On to season 3 of Voyager and enjoying it so far, its a bit middling but it still has soul at least. The technobabble has been a bit much and they drag it out a lot. Suder would have made such a good recurring character, killing him off was a let down.
 
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I am through Season 4 of Voyager, and I feel pretty much the same.

Great ideas for stories for the most part, and to Jeri Ryan's credit, Seven of Nine did liven things up a bit.

However, I'm still having a hard time connecting with most of the main cast. Its not really the fault of the actors, but again, most of them just remind me of previous Trek characters and its hard to separate my past viewings with these characters I am new to. Had I never watched Star Trek before and this was my first, I'd probably like it a lot more.

And I hate to say it, but Kes has been gone since early in Season 4 and I've already started to forget about her. Her loss wasn't a huge blow at all.

The best characters of course, are The Doctor and Seven of Nine, who also happen to be the most original (and even they tread into familiar territories taken by characters like Data). I think their standings as a hologram & a former Borg drone combined with the performers playing them help them to stand out above the rest.
 
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Since I rewatched all the movies recently, in a row, I had a few new things occur to me on some of them. TMP through The Voyage Home I know like the back of my hand so nothing much to say about any of them other than how much I enjoy them despite having seen each a million times. I still think Search for Spock is undeserving of its low reputation even if its the weakest of the four.

Star Trek V I don't think I had seen from start to finish in at least ten or twelve years. I definitely watched it less than the others as a kid and just had no reason to revisit it in my later years. I was still struck by how disjointed the plot was. I thought I was misremembering the sequence of events because there were big gaps in them where connecting scenes should have gone, but that sequence of events is in the movie, almost verbatim how I remembered it. I was also appaled at the unbelieveably horrible special effects for the space sequences, which were apparently shot at only 16 FPS to save on the budget. Star Trek 5 is a mess, there's some entertaining character scenes though and Kelley is giving a great performance as Bones. Plus Jerry Goldsmith's score is excellent, even if the track "Open the Gates" sounds transparently like his Rambo 3 score.

Undiscovered Country is still good but I was surprised at how quickly the movie flew by. Chancellor Gorkon, a character central to the whole plot, appears on screen for what feels like less than 10 minutes and barely gets any interaction with Kirk. I actually wanted the movie to focus more on the diplomacy plot but Chang's betrayal happens so quickly. Then the meh jailbreak plot takes over which to be honest I never totally cared for. Even if Rura Penthe is a reference to one of my favorite movies. Its still one of the better Trek movies but its a lot thinner than I remembered. Maybe I let the epic score color my opinion of it too much.

Generations I made a post defending awhile back and I still mostly stand by it. Most of the TNG plot is insufferable though, I couldn't get invested in it at all and was mostly just waiting around for Kirk to show up again. The special effects of Generations actually look really good when they aren't shameless stock footage from the previous movie, and I liked Dennis McCarthy's score which later on became the backbone of the DS9 score. Kirk's death could easily have been worse in retrospect, and the part where he tells Picard not to let Starfleet promote him or let him get comfortable rings so much more true with the disaster that Star Trek Picard has become.

RumblyTumbly said:
Had I never watched Star Trek before and this was my first, I'd probably like it a lot more.
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That's usually the explanation for why Voyager fans exist.
 
L50LasPak said:
Star Trek V I don't think I had seen from start to finish in at least ten or twelve years. I definitely watched it less than the others as a kid and just had no reason to revisit it in my later years. I was still struck by how disjointed the plot was. I thought I was misremembering the sequence of events because there were big gaps in them where connecting scenes should have gone, but that sequence of events is in the movie, almost verbatim how I remembered it. I was also appaled at the unbelieveably horrible special effects for the space sequences, which were apparently shot at only 16 FPS to save on the budget. Star Trek 5 is a mess, there's some entertaining character scenes though and Kelley is giving a great performance as Bones. Plus Jerry Goldsmith's score is excellent, even if the track "Open the Gates" sounds transparently like his Rambo 3 score.
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V is interesting. It's bad, but it's almost structured like a Monty Python movie where everything that happens is a series of loosely connected skits that share no cause and effect relationship with each other. It's like it has no three-act structure.
 
Never Scored said:
V is interesting. It's bad, but it's almost structured like a Monty Python movie where everything that happens is a series of loosely connected skits that share no cause and effect relationship with each other. It's like it has no three-act structure.
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I thought it was pretty goofy, and honestly barely remember anything about it other than that I called it "The Search for God" at the time mockingly because euphoria.
 
I have a soft spot for all 6 TOS movies, including V. I really wish it would get a director's cut, but Shatner ain't getting any younger and Paramount/Viacom/CBS ain't getting any less SJW.
Randos on YouTube have redone several of the Star Trek 5 effects with great success. Just pay those guys a few bucks to do it.
 
Never Scored said:
V is interesting. It's bad, but it's almost structured like a Monty Python movie where everything that happens is a series of loosely connected skits that share no cause and effect relationship with each other. It's like it has no three-act structure.
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V would be better if it was cheaper, actually. Even then, the best it could be is The Apple episode. Shuttle effects aside, what makes the movie not work is them traveling from one desert planet to the another desert planet because Sybok absolutely needs a ship. While the Enterprise is iconic, its general function in most TOS episodes is as a means of conveyance, not a plot device. If anything, the ship often inhibits the plot which is why it gets disabled or called away or Prime Directive'd to get it out of play.
 
Travoltron said:
I have a soft spot for all 6 TOS movies, including V. I really wish it would get a director's cut, but Shatner ain't getting any younger and Paramount/Viacom/CBS ain't getting any less SJW.
Randos on YouTube have redone several of the Star Trek 5 effects with great success. Just pay those guys a few bucks to do it.
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I'd be interested in seeing a director's cut of V as well, if only to see if any editing could save it. The alternate cuts of the other movies vary in quality for me. I prefer the 12 minute extended cut of TMP since that's the one I grew up on and think the CGI V'ger is heresy. The director's cut of Wrath of Khan is interesting in that it gives Scotty's nephew a bit more personality, but you'd be surprised how much a few added scenes can harm the pacing of a movie.

As far as I know ST3 and Voyage Home have no major deleted scenes or alternate cuts. Undiscovered Country doesn't have a director's cut to my knowledge, but the TV cut restores a sub-plot with Rene Auberjonis's character, Colonel North, playing the assassin at the end. There's also the scene where the corrupt federation officials explain Operation Retrieve to the president, which I think shouldn't have been cut at all and helps set the stage for the part where we find out who's in on the conspiracy.

With a track record like that, V's director's cut could really go anywhere in terms of quality. This is also a rare case when I actually wouldn't object to using CGI to patch up the effects either, because god are they awful.
 
RumblyTumbly said:
I am through Season 4 of Voyager, and I feel pretty much the same.

Great ideas for stories for the most part, and to Jeri Ryan's credit, Seven of Nine did liven things up a bit.

However, I'm still having a hard time connecting with most of the main cast. Its not really the fault of the actors, but again, most of them just remind me of previous Trek characters and its hard to separate my past viewings with these characters I am new to. Had I never watched Star Trek before and this was my first, I'd probably like it a lot more.

And I hate to say it, but Kes has been gone since early in Season 4 and I've already started to forget about her. Her loss wasn't a huge blow at all.

The best characters of course, are The Doctor and Seven of Nine, who also happen to be the most original (and even they tread into familiar territories taken by characters like Data). I think their standings as a hologram & a former Borg drone combined with the performers playing them help them to stand out above the rest.
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What I liked most about Seven of Nine (okay, second-most :) ) was the way she didn't think of herself as suddenly freed from mind-slavery but wanted to go back and actually argued with Janeway not only passionately but convincingly that the Collective was good. Janeway was unquestionably abusive towards Seven of Nine, denying her freedom and a right to choose.

I honestly would have loved it if after experiencing life as a human and having free choice, she decided to return to The Collective thinking it was better. There were a couple of times she nearly did. It would have been a really bold and emotional decision and fascinating to watch. Undoubtedly Janeway would have tried to physically stop her from doing so because Janeway always falls back to force when a noble speech fails to sway someone.
 
Overly Serious said:
What I liked most about Seven of Nine (okay, second-most :) ) was the way she didn't think of herself as suddenly freed from mind-slavery but wanted to go back and actually argued with Janeway not only passionately but convincingly that the Collective was good. Janeway was unquestionably abusive towards Seven of Nine, denying her freedom and a right to choose.

I honestly would have loved it if after experiencing life as a human and having free choice, she decided to return to The Collective thinking it was better. There were a couple of times she nearly did. It would have been a really bold and emotional decision and fascinating to watch. Undoubtedly Janeway would have tried to physically stop her from doing so because Janeway always falls back to force when a noble speech fails to sway someone.
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LOL! I was literally yelling at the TV. "She's not in Starfleet and you have no real authority over her! Let her make her own choices Janeway!" lol.
 
Overly Serious said:
What I liked most about Seven of Nine (okay, second-most :) ) was the way she didn't think of herself as suddenly freed from mind-slavery but wanted to go back and actually argued with Janeway not only passionately but convincingly that the Collective was good. Janeway was unquestionably abusive towards Seven of Nine, denying her freedom and a right to choose.

I honestly would have loved it if after experiencing life as a human and having free choice, she decided to return to The Collective thinking it was better. There were a couple of times she nearly did. It would have been a really bold and emotional decision and fascinating to watch. Undoubtedly Janeway would have tried to physically stop her from doing so because Janeway always falls back to force when a noble speech fails to sway someone.
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I think her returning to the collective wouldn't be a satisfying end to her character arc, but I agree that Janeway held too much authority over her. What I would have liked to see is Seven perhaps supporting a coup and Janeway having to take a back seat for at least a season, if not outright leave the show. Seven's reclaimation of her humanity is too much to just throw away by having her go back to the collective, but the collective could still have influenced her judgement and perhaps made her supportive of turning Voyager's command structure into more of a commitee thing.

Janeway's dictatorial leadership only made sense in the beginning of the show. By the mid point of the show she had all of these conflicting personalities stacked up against her; Chakotay, B'lenna, Seven, hell even Neelix to some extent all disagreed with her substantially at various points. There's lots of ways trying to give each faction an equal say in what the ship does can go wrong too, it would have made a good power struggle arc for a season or two, maybe ending with Janeway re-establishing control, or a truce, could have gone any number of ways. Unfortunately the writers played it safe though.
 
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RumblyTumbly said:
LOL! I was literally yelling at the TV. "She's not in Starfleet and you have no real authority over her! Let her make her own choices Janeway!" lol.
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To be fair, technically that also applied to a sizable chunk of her other crew. Though you'd be forgiven for forgetting about that aspect of the show, seeing how rarely it came up.
 
UnKillShredDurr said:
To be fair, technically that also applied to a sizable chunk of her other crew. Though you'd be forgiven for forgetting about that aspect of the show, seeing how rarely it came up.
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Starfleet captains constantly act like officers of an occupying army towards civilians on their ship or that they encounter in their travels of muh strange new worlds. Admirals the same. I serbskreeb to the theory that the Federation is ruled by a military junta with the facade of the Federation Council to cover up the fact that it is always Starfleet captains or admirals making the decisions that matter.
 
I feel pretty disgusted at myself for posting this, but...

Lower Decks (aka Rick & Morty in space) feels more like a proper Trek show than STD and Picard do.





Time to chug some clorox.
 
Van Darkholme said:
I feel pretty disgusted at myself for posting this, but...

Lower Decks (aka Rick & Morty in space) feels more like a proper Trek show than STD and Picard do.





Time to chug some clorox.
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That isn't saying much. I often take shits that feel more like proper Trek than STD or STP do.

Also,
 
Van Darkholme said:
I feel pretty disgusted at myself for posting this, but...

Lower Decks (aka Rick & Morty in space) feels more like a proper Trek show than STD and Picard do.





Time to chug some clorox.
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You mean the Orville. The Orville feels more like Star Trek than anything out right now.


How come nobody has ever proposed a Holodeck adventures series? It could be kid oriented where some lower ranking slobs act out classic literature stories every week and some more modern retellings of events from the last century. Dive into the lore of pre Starfleet. A whole episode of how Zefram Cochrane spent a night in space jail for drunkenness.
 
Van Darkholme said:
I feel pretty disgusted at myself for posting this, but...

Lower Decks (aka Rick & Morty in space) feels more like a proper Trek show than STD and Picard do.





Time to chug some clorox.
Click to expand...
yeah I've often heard it's less terrible than the other nutreks
but that's like being the most charming child rapist

as for Five... eh. I don't really hate it that much. Yeah there's issues but it does important rock climbing and god punching from TOS that had gone neglected in the movies
 
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