Star Trek - Space: The Final Frontier

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Sexual Chocolate said:
Why does the Enterprise D need a therapist to talk about your feeeeelings (in an extremely boring nasal monotone) anyway? It's not the Battlestar Galactica, people aren't suffering from anxiety (except Reg Barclay). Kirk's crew let off steam through drunken fist fights with Klingons.
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Back when Spacebattles.com creator still owned the forum, it was believed "therapists" were really commissars to keep the captains and crews from getting any unFederation ideas.
 
The whole empath thing was sadly wasted because, when it comes to it, it sounds like yeah you'd love to have a telepath on your bridge. But when you're trying to write a story with devious aliens, it's a bit of a problem when you got somebody able to spoil that right away:

"We come in peace!"
"Captain I sense they mean us harm."
"Red alert, shields up!"

So they had to nerf her all the time: "I'm sorry captain, I don't seem to sense anything from them." so in the end her empathic ability was just used as reason to have her (poorly) cry on screen once in a while because something was upsetting her Betazoidar!

Ugh, worst character on the show, and Crusher fucked a ghost!
 
rabo said:
The whole empath thing was sadly wasted because, when it comes to it, it sounds like yeah you'd love to have a telepath on your bridge. But when you're trying to write a story with devious aliens, it's a bit of a problem when you got somebody able to spoil that right away:

"We come in peace!"
"Captain I sense they mean us harm."
"Red alert, shields up!"

So they had to nerf her all the time: "I'm sorry captain, I don't seem to sense anything from them." so in the end her empathic ability was just used as reason to have her (poorly) cry on screen once in a while because something was upsetting her Betazoidar!

Ugh, worst character on the show, and Crusher fucked a ghost!
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It's a bit like modern horror movies, that need to come up with a reason why mobile phones don't work. It does make sense for movies set in bumfuck middle of nowhere, but it really strains the suspension of disbelief when it happens anywhere else.

Troi most often ended up a "No shit, sherlock" character. You'd have the Enterprise in a full out space battle, getting nuked repeatedly by photon torpedos, cut to Troi "I sense anger!". Yeah, thanks for the input, Troi.

Telepaths in a show like Star Trek would be invaluable for any bridge crew, whenever they make contact with someone else, so it makes sense to have them on board, but the writers need a way to dim them down that's believable, so they don't take the tension out of scenes.
Like, make it so Troi actually needs some time to adjust to an aliens mental frame of mind to even understand what those feelings mean. Like, she could tell there is a strong feeling, but wether that's hatred, rage, curiosity or happiness is up in the air until she learns to read those emotions after being exposed to them some time.
In the same manner: If it's good for a Starfleet ship to have an empathic person on board to help with interpreting a situation, everyone else would like someone similar to provide a mental shield against being read...
 
Uranus Pink said:
Back when Spacebattles.com creator still owned the forum, it was believed "therapists" were really commissars to keep the captains and crews from getting any unFederation ideas.
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Holy crap that works so well. This is my new headcanon. I can see it working with the future society of the Federation where Starfleet is made up of that small portion of the pacified population that isn't content to just sit around an play pornography on their Holodeck and take legalized drugs, but want actual challenge and meaning. The Federation says: "Yes, we need you and we'll let you do these things - but you have to have 'therapists' with you to 'look after your mental well-being in these stressful situations." I can now totally see it where an officer who doesn't go to his mandatory wellness sessions is disciplined for it. Hell, I bet the low-cut, push up cleavage is even recommended outfit for therapists - "flirt a little, get them trying to make you like them and then guide them to tell you about their ambitions and how they feel about the Federation. Let us know if there are any ones that sound too ambitious or indepdendent"

And naturally psychological assessment is part of a career record and assessment for promotion. Anyone who doesn't like the Federation will have to keep it on the downlow, never knowing how many of their crewmates around them might also feel just the same way as them but they're afraid to mention it in case they pass it along. "Oh ensign Rogers was talking about how the Federation politicians get water from a different supply than the rest of us citizens and it got me thinking..." "Oh, that's just a security measure against terrorism, you know that. Tell me, has Rogers said any other things that disturbed you?"
 
Overly Serious said:
Holy crap that works so well. This is my new headcanon. I can see it working with the future society of the Federation where Starfleet is made up of that small portion of the pacified population that isn't content to just sit around an play pornography on their Holodeck and take legalized drugs, but want actual challenge and meaning. The Federation says: "Yes, we need you and we'll let you do these things - but you have to have 'therapists' with you to 'look after your mental well-being in these stressful situations." I can now totally see it where an officer who doesn't go to his mandatory wellness sessions is disciplined for it. Hell, I bet the low-cut, push up cleavage is even recommended outfit for therapists - "flirt a little, get them trying to make you like them and then guide them to tell you about their ambitions and how they feel about the Federation. Let us know if there are any ones that sound too ambitious or indepdendent"

And naturally psychological assessment is part of a career record and assessment for promotion. Anyone who doesn't like the Federation will have to keep it on the downlow, never knowing how many of their crewmates around them might also feel just the same way as them but they're afraid to mention it in case they pass it along. "Oh ensign Rogers was talking about how the Federation politicians get water from a different supply than the rest of us citizens and it got me thinking..." "Oh, that's just a security measure against terrorism, you know that. Tell me, has Rogers said any other things that disturbed you?"
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The Maquis get more based by the day. I'm pretty sure Cal Hudson didn't have a therapist to consult when he had to deal with real problems.
 
Overly Serious said:
"Oh ensign Rogers was talking about how the Federation politicians get water from a different supply than the rest of us citizens and it got me thinking..." "Oh, that's just a security measure against terrorism, you know that. Tell me, has Rogers said any other things that disturbed you?"
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"Well I read that, despite only making up 13% of Starfleet..."
 
polyester said:
Or unless she's conveniently not on the bridge during the scene.
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You know, constraints like an empath can actually lead to better writing sometimes. A plot where a clever adversary deliberately set out to work around Troi's abilities would be pretty cool. Arranging the meeting at a festival where she's surrounded by strong emotions, a biological agent that renders her unwell or mentally unstable making others doubt her, sending an agent to seduce her and thus keep her distracted. Things like that.

Of course it's hard to keep doing that for a multi-season TV series.
 
BScCollateral said:
Never liked her, myself. She makes it impossible for the bad guys to fool our heroes, unless they just ignore her when she says she "senses deception."

Be real careful with characters like that.
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Still is pretty funny that when she has to do anything outside of her powers she's fuckin useless or works like Worf where it gives another character (or just Picard really) a chance to say "No troi, it's actually LIKE THIS"
 
Overly Serious said:
Of course it's hard to keep doing that for a multi-season TV series.
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It would have been easier if they has made the telepathic abilities less powerful.
For example, make it so they only work on someone who is physically nearby.

If a Betazoid can really detect the inner state of mind of someone who is on a shielded starship many miles away, simply by seeing them on the viewscreen, then that raises the question why Star Fleet doesn't try to hire a Betazoid for every single bridge crew, or why Romulans/Cardassians/etc. haven't conquered and enslaved them for the same purpose. Or why people still agree to negotiate via viewscreen. Or why they don't invent tin foil hats to protect their minds from being probed.
 
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So now I've started watching Enterprise. So far, I like the look and overall approach. It looks very different from the TNG/DS9/Voyager era of Trek, but that's a good thing given its point in the timeline. The captain is kind of a more rugged Cowboy type, the relationship between Vulcans and Humans isn't as fortified as it is in the era of TOS and beyond, and alot of the technology familiar to Trek hasn't been fully developed yet. Its kind of fun to see the crews work with a lot less during this early period of Star Trek. It also looks alot closer to what we would see in 20th century NASA than in what we know Starfleet to be, and again, I like it.

It doesn't look like classic Trek, but it doesn't break anything the way that Discovery does. It really does feel like kind of a starting point that would lead to the more familiar and idealized Starfleet and Federation that we'd see in the other shows.

That said, the characters are mostly kind of blank slates and a little dull in these first few episodes. They seem to be defined largely by their jobs on the ship more than any kind of personality or character. Hopefully that changes as I continue watching.

I also thought I would hate listening to the theme song. At first it was jarring like "Wait, Star Trek has an actual theme song now?" but after 5 episodes or so, I'm already used to it.
 
RumblyTumbly said:
So now I've started watching Enterprise. So far, I like the look and overall approach. It looks very different from the TNG/DS9/Voyager era of Trek, but that's a good thing given its point in the timeline. The captain is kind of a more rugged Cowboy type, the relationship between Vulcans and Humans isn't as fortified as it is in the era of TOS and beyond, and alot of the technology familiar to Trek hasn't been fully developed yet. Its kind of fun to see the crews work with a lot less during this early period of Star Trek. It also looks alot closer to what we would see in 20th century NASA than in what we know Starfleet to be, and again, I like it.

It doesn't look like classic Trek, but it doesn't break anything the way that Discovery does. It really does feel like kind of a starting point that would lead to the more familiar and idealized Starfleet and Federation that we'd see in the other shows.

That said, the characters are mostly kind of blank slates and a little dull in these first few episodes. They seem to be defined largely by their jobs on the ship more than any kind of personality or character. Hopefully that changes as I continue watching.

I also thought I would hate listening to the theme song. At first it was jarring like "Wait, Star Trek has an actual theme song now?" but after 5 episodes or so, I'm already used to it.
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It gets better as it goes on, the characters get a lot of development. I'm not a fan of Faith of the Heart but I legitimately enjoyed Enterprise.
 
Much like Voyager, ENT seems to be in the "missed opportunity" ballpark.

I think one of the first major plotarcs is about a "temporal cold war" and that just never really appealed to me as a starting point for this show.
The term "temporal cold war" sound cool, the basic idea seems interesting, but it seems like the show is just way above its head when it throws something like that at the audience. It makes it feel like ENT is trying to outperform TNG and DS9 with the scale and scope of things when it should be more about the crew trying not to succumb to space radiation.

It makes for a kind of weird rollercoaster with the other shows.
ENT has some fuckhuge temporal cold war being waged by a dozen species across thousands of years, then TOS comes along and Kirk has to beat up a spacelizard, then DS9 happens and there's a fuckhuge conventional hot war waged by a dozen species waged across thousands of lightyears.

I know they wanted to go all out with their awesome shit going on, but I feel that shouldn't have been the focus for ENT right out the gate. ENT needs to fit into the timeline, not only by its looks and setting, but also thematically... Might as well started off with a major Borg invasion to get some higher stakes...

... but overall, it was still Star Trek and there were still a lot of decent ideas.
 
rabo said:
The whole empath thing was sadly wasted because, when it comes to it, it sounds like yeah you'd love to have a telepath on your bridge. But when you're trying to write a story with devious aliens, it's a bit of a problem when you got somebody able to spoil that right away:

"We come in peace!"
"Captain I sense they mean us harm."
"Red alert, shields up!"

So they had to nerf her all the time: "I'm sorry captain, I don't seem to sense anything from them." so in the end her empathic ability was just used as reason to have her (poorly) cry on screen once in a while because something was upsetting her Betazoidar!
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It always bothered me that their explanation to nerf her from being fully telepathic was that she was half-human and that pure-blooded Betazoids are fully telepathic. They're a core Federation species and it just made me wonder why Starfleet didn't have a Betazoid assigned to every ship.
 
rabo said:
Didn't they make Lisa a vegan specifically because McCartney fucking cried there weren't any in the show?
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She's vegetarian, not vegan. Also the show cheats and has her eating things that aren't even eggs or milk vegetarian.
BScCollateral said:
Never liked her, myself. She makes it impossible for the bad guys to fool our heroes, unless they just ignore her when she says she "senses deception."
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I like when someone's screaming and bellowing threats and she "senses hostility." Yeah thanks a lot Troilock Holmes.
 
rabo said:
Didn't they make Lisa a vegan specifically because McCartney fucking cried there weren't any in the show?
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My understanding was that McCartney only requested that they keep Lisa vegetarian and not do the, then, usual sitcom trope of resetting at the end, which I think is reasonable.
 
Why would Troi's empathy even work with alien species? They got it right when they said she can't read Ferengi brains. Should have expanded that to almost every other species.

"What do you sense, counselor?"

"I don't know. My forehead feels too small and it's like half my teeth are missing. I also have an urge to urinate all over the Enterprise. That could be a dominance display, captain. Or a mating instinct."
 
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