Star Trek - Space: The Final Frontier

[ZMOT]

The Galaxy-class saucer seperation is a rather neat idea but it really is more of a liability and the exact way how it works is weird as fuck, given that the piece with the civilians isn't warp capable. Now, what I could see work is to have a ship like the Galaxy class, that travels to some planet, ditches the saucer section that stays in orbit, which then acts as a forward base to explore the planet via shuttlecraft (basically repurpose the captain's yacht for that) and teleporters or as a sort of mobile ambassy for starfleet, while the other section continues to explore the vicinity of the star system. Would make sense why the saucer looks like a giant space resort, too.

it makes sense for a case like farpoint, saucer stays behind where it's safe, battle bridge goes in. thing is most situations aren't happening in a way you can prepare for it, and once the whole ship is stuck in it there's no point in separation anymore, and even if you plan ahead it's usually much more sensible to call in backup/other ships than separate.

that's why it never bothered me much that they hardly used it, since it was highly situational to begin with (probably the reason the design got abandoned later on, iirc galaxy class the the biggest star fleet ever built, and then went back to smaller, more specialized vessels). same as the captain's yacht really, how often is a captain going on a lone cruise instead of taking a regular shuttle or transporter? and most captains won't use it as an escape pod either. nice concept, that's all.

as for test cases, sometimes you want to have a prolonged real life test case, and during peace times when you're not on a clock to constantly crank you machinery working on concepts or just another ship doesn't make much difference. least of all you'd need to built it at least once to see where the issues are and how feasible it is - there's probably quite a few prometheus concepts that never went farther than the drawing board.
the only waste would be the planning (usually done by a handful of people anyway), any scarce resource you can just re-use afterwards, especially with 24th century recycling tech. rest gets dumped somewhere to collect rust like we already do, but with advanced automation you could just have some drones dismantle it over time and re-use that as well.

Or better still, don't put fucking families on a ship that is supposed to be exploring the 'unknown,' so you don't even need to get civilians away from the danger in the first place...

it mainly was flying around in starfleet territory, there wasn't much unknown besides some spaces here and there, but not completely out of reach to have backup ready if needed (same reason saucer separation doesn't mean your completely fucked with only impulse). also flag ship to show how much star fleet can wave it's (galaxy class big) dick around, and bringing your family along works much better for diplomacy. but the galaxy class still had firepower and armor/shields out the ass, it might be a flying cruise ship, but not one you want to start shit with.

the reason it got in all kinds of shenanigans (which honestly were still few and far between, how often was the enterprise in real danger?) is because it's a tv drama. and even if we take that at face value, that's still a few and far between all the mundane stuff that would happen day in day out we don't see because it's pretty boring. there's a reason we hardly ever saw a nightshift episode. picard and the funky bunch have to sleep at some point...

 

[Drag-on Knight 91873]

it makes sense for a case like farpoint, saucer stays behind where it's safe, battle bridge goes in. thing is most situations aren't happening in a way you can prepare for it, and once the whole ship is stuck in it there's no point in separation anymore, and even if you plan ahead it's usually much more sensible to call in backup/other ships than separate.

that's why it never bothered me much that they hardly used it, since it was highly situational to begin with (probably the reason the design got abandoned later on, iirc galaxy class the the biggest star fleet ever built, and then went back to smaller, more specialized vessels). same as the captain's yacht really, how often is a captain going on a lone cruise instead of taking a regular shuttle or transporter? and most captains won't use it as an escape pod either. nice concept, that's all.

as for test cases, sometimes you want to have a prolonged real life test case, and during peace times when you're not on a clock to constantly crank you machinery working on concepts or just another ship doesn't make much difference. least of all you'd need to built it at least once to see where the issues are and how feasible it is - there's probably quite a few prometheus concepts that never went farther than the drawing board.
the only waste would be the planning (usually done by a handful of people anyway), any scarce resource you can just re-use afterwards, especially with 24th century recycling tech. rest gets dumped somewhere to collect rust like we already do, but with advanced automation you could just have some drones dismantle it over time and re-use that as well.

it mainly was flying around in starfleet territory, there wasn't much unknown besides some spaces here and there, but not completely out of reach to have backup ready if needed (same reason saucer separation doesn't mean your completely fucked with only impulse). also flag ship to show how much star fleet can wave it's (galaxy class big) dick around, and bringing your family along works much better for diplomacy. but the galaxy class still had firepower and armor/shields out the ass, it might be a flying cruise ship, but not one you want to start shit with.

the reason it got in all kinds of shenanigans (which honestly were still few and far between, how often was the enterprise in real danger?) is because it's a tv drama. and even if we take that at face value, that's still a few and far between all the mundane stuff that would happen day in day out we don't see because it's pretty boring. there's a reason we hardly ever saw a nightshift episode. picard and the funky bunch have to sleep at some point...

In Farpoint, they had to fling the saucer away and let inertia carry it the rest of the way while they tried to deal with Q. Season 1 was when the ship actually tried to fulfill mission parameters, but because it got delegated to mobile embassy in later ones, it proved that the Galaxy was way over designed for its purposes. Which the show tacitly admits by kitbashing the Nebula-class, which did the job the Galaxy did with a fraction of resources and personnel.

Also, "We're the only ship in range" is a common Star Trek refrain for a reason; Backup will always arrive too late. Remember in Descent part 1 when they were supposed to link up with two other ships? Did they do that in the episode? Especially after season 3 where Starfleet lost at least half (I would say 3/4 due to dry-docked ships being sent out to muster) of the fleet and had trouble scrounging up 20 ships for a blockade. Because Starfleet got stretched thin in the 24th on account of all the minor border wars with second-rate powers like the Talarians, the race that literally ree'd at death, the Tzenkethi, and the Cardassians.

The Galaxy is formidable... except for all those times Worf said the shields are down during actual fights. In-lore, the loss of this kind of ship is in-lore headline news like that time the Yamato got fucked by an Iconian virus or the Odyssey got fucked by a kamikaze or the Enterprise getting fucked by sabotage.

 

[ZMOT]

In Farpoint, they had to fling the saucer away and let inertia carry it the rest of the way while they tried to deal with Q. Season 1 was when the ship actually tried to fulfill mission parameters, but because it got delegated to mobile embassy in later ones, it proved that the Galaxy was way over designed for its purposes. Which the show tacitly admits by kitbashing the Nebula-class, which did the job the Galaxy did with a fraction of resources and personnel.

Also, "We're the only ship in range" is a common Star Trek refrain for a reason; Backup will always arrive too late. Remember in Descent part 1 when they were supposed to link up with two other ships? Did they do that in the episode? Especially after season 3 where Starfleet lost at least half (I would say 3/4 due to dry-docked ships being sent out to muster) of the fleet and had trouble scrounging up 20 ships for a blockade. Because Starfleet got stretched thin in the 24th on account of all the minor border wars with second-rate powers like the Talarians, the race that literally ree'd at death, the Tzenkethi, and the Cardassians.

The Galaxy is formidable... except for all those times Worf said the shields are down during actual fights. In-lore, the loss of this kind of ship is in-lore headline news like that time the Yamato got fucked by an Iconian virus or the Odyssey got fucked by a kamikaze or the Enterprise getting fucked by sabotage.

nebula still wasn't the flag ship, the whole point is vanity project/force projection/whatever you wanna call it. imagine rolling up with that goofy ass looking ship and expecting any klingon or romulan to take you seriously.

only ship in range doesn't matter much when they can't make it to the battle but can pick up the saucer later, and it's still preferable to have the whole ship blow up. heck, part of the reason you can separate is the saucer acting as a big single escape pod you can even land on a planet when shit gets bad (usually logically avoided since it fucks the saucer for good, but what happened in generations wasn't outside it's possible options, proven by only 18 people dying even during that literal crash).
in short, lives are worth more than the ship.

and yes, the galaxy is formidable. good luck starting a pissing match and hoping the shields will conveniently go down because the script requires it for drama.
as for in-lore news, space is big and shit happens, and it doesn't mean star fleet has an open policy regarding details. pretty much everyone signing up knows what could happen, same way most people don't enlist and expect a desk job.

 

[Drag-on Knight 91873]

nebula still wasn't the flag ship, the whole point is vanity project/force projection/whatever you wanna call it. imagine rolling up with that goofy ass looking ship and expecting any klingon or romulan to take you seriously.

only ship in range doesn't matter much when they can't make it to the battle but can pick up the saucer later, and it's still preferable to have the whole ship blow up. heck, part of the reason you can separate is the saucer acting as a big single escape pod you can even land on a planet when shit gets bad (usually logically avoided since it fucks the saucer for good, but what happened in generations wasn't outside it's possible options, proven by only 18 people dying even during that literal crash).
in short, lives are worth more than the ship.

and yes, the galaxy is formidable. good luck starting a pissing match and hoping the shields will conveniently go down because the script requires it for drama.
as for in-lore news, space is big and shit happens, and it doesn't mean star fleet has an open policy regarding details. pretty much everyone signing up knows what could happen, same way most people don't enlist and expect a desk job.

Force projection doesn't mean that much when it's news that a flagship can get BTFOd like the Odyssey. Or that time when Ferengi pirates managed to hijack the ship using a Bird of Prey they bought from the used ship dealership. Rascals was such a lol episode that Odo brings it up to Worf's face. The Nebula was taken seriously the moment the Phoenix blew up a Galor-class after its shields got hacked by a prefix code. The Galaxy glass had a glass neck, which later starship like the Sovereign fixed by actually being able to stand knock-down drag out fights.

 

[rabo]

In Farpoint, they had to fling the saucer away and let inertia carry it the rest of the way while they tried to deal with Q. Season 1 was when the ship actually tried to fulfill mission parameters, but because it got delegated to mobile embassy in later ones, it proved that the Galaxy was way over designed for its purposes. Which the show tacitly admits by kitbashing the Nebula-class, which did the job the Galaxy did with a fraction of resources and personnel.

Also, "We're the only ship in range" is a common Star Trek refrain for a reason; Backup will always arrive too late. Remember in Descent part 1 when they were supposed to link up with two other ships? Did they do that in the episode? Especially after season 3 where Starfleet lost at least half (I would say 3/4 due to dry-docked ships being sent out to muster) of the fleet and had trouble scrounging up 20 ships for a blockade. Because Starfleet got stretched thin in the 24th on account of all the minor border wars with second-rate powers like the Talarians, the race that literally ree'd at death, the Tzenkethi, and the Cardassians.

The Galaxy is formidable... except for all those times Worf said the shields are down during actual fights. In-lore, the loss of this kind of ship is in-lore headline news like that time the Yamato got fucked by an Iconian virus or the Odyssey got fucked by a kamikaze or the Enterprise getting fucked by sabotage.

Or when the Jem'Hadar blew up a Galaxy class just as a show of force.

 

[ditto]

Or when the Jem'Hadar blew up a Galaxy class just as a show of force.

It took a kamikaze attack. Then again the Odyssey didn't have any children on mall psychics on the bridge.

 

[Uranus Pink]

It took a kamikaze attack. Then again the Odyssey didn't have any children on mall psychics on the bridge.

By the time Odyssey was destroyed the Galaxy class was no longer a glass cannon after most of the flaws were fixed. Hence the need for the kamikaze attack to destroy her. Nebula class was never very durable or powerful like the Galaxy class. Even the older refitted Ambassador class (Enterprise C) could tanked and dished out more damage than the Nebulas. Although the Nebulas were much faster to build and modify via mission pods then the Galaxies were so Starfleet went with them. Plus prior to the newer First Contact and Dominion War designs Nebula class was better than almost every other ship class Starfleet had in service.

 

[Clown College]

So Nemesis is back on Prime and every so often when I feel the need to inflict copious amounts of pain upon myself I try and watch it. This time I tried just watching the space battle and yep it was still hot garbage. I also saw this review and I'm just not sure anymore.

 

[SteelPlatedHeart]

So Nemesis is back on Prime and every so often when I feel the need to inflict copious amounts of pain upon myself I try and watch it. This time I tried just watching the space battle and yep it was still hot garbage. I also saw this review and I'm just not sure anymore.
View attachment 2014401

This reads like a fake review trying to promote the Picard series. It’s less about the movie itself and more “be sure to watch this so you understand Star Trek: Picard? Do you know about Star Trek: Picard? You should watch Star Trek: Picard!”

 

[rabo]

This reads like a fake review trying to promote the Picard series. It’s less about the movie itself and more “be sure to watch this so you understand Star Trek: Picard? Do you know about Star Trek: Picard? You should watch Star Trek: Picard!”

I would prefer this was a fake review. The notion of somebody watching all of TNG and then watching the Movies, especially "Nemisis" and then watch Picard and think: "This is fine." makes me want to walk into the ocean.

 

[Clown College]

This reads like a fake review trying to promote the Picard series. It’s less about the movie itself and more “be sure to watch this so you understand Star Trek: Picard? Do you know about Star Trek: Picard? You should watch Star Trek: Picard!”

Indeed I also like that fact that he watched in on a Sony VCR and had to point out it was a Sony. For some reason he thought that would add more importance to the statement? I'm not really sure it just stuck out to me. There were a few other reviews that praised Nemesis or said that afterall these years it didn't get the praise it really deserved. That review though was the one that really stuck out to me.

 

[ZMOT]

So Nemesis is back on Prime and every so often when I feel the need to inflict copious amounts of pain upon myself I try and watch it. This time I tried just watching the space battle and yep it was still hot garbage. I also saw this review and I'm just not sure anymore.
View attachment 2014401

"every bit as good as the other 3 movies imo" is where I stopped reading.

 

[Captain Syrup]

The notion of somebody watching all of TNG and then watching the Movies, especially "Nemesis" and then watch Picard and think: "This is fine." makes me want to walk into the ocean.

Fans never really came to terms with Generations. That's where the wheels started to come off. If you can excuse Kirk dying in such a perfunctory way, then you can excuse anything.

 

[Never Scored]

I like the theory, I may have even of read it in this thread, that movie Piccard is so different from TV Piccard because he's in the early stages of Irumodic Syndrome.

 

[RumblyTumbly]

The Next Gen movies are terrible. Plain and simple.

Funny thing though, I used to kind of like First Contact...until I watched DS9 a couple of years ago. Seeing how that show played out, and taking into account the end of Next Gen, it didn't really make much sense to do a movie sequel to Best of Both Worlds since The Borg had pretty much already been dealt with. And now that I've seen DS9, I'll always wonder what the hell The Enterprise was doing during all the Dominion War stuff. I mean Picard and his crew just stayed out of that conflict entirely? Highly unlikely.

 

[Miller]

Funny thing though, I used to kind of like First Contact...until I watched DS9 a couple of years ago. Seeing how that show played out, and taking into account the end of Next Gen, it didn't really make much sense to do a movie sequel to Best of Both Worlds since The Borg had pretty much already been dealt with.

...and why would Picard have PTSD after all this time when he has been a Borg for only a few hours? The episode Family was the perfect closure for that story.

 

[Clown College]

The Next Gen movies are terrible. Plain and simple.

Funny thing though, I used to kind of like First Contact...until I watched DS9 a couple of years ago. Seeing how that show played out, and taking into account the end of Next Gen, it didn't really make much sense to do a movie sequel to Best of Both Worlds since The Borg had pretty much already been dealt with. And now that I've seen DS9, I'll always wonder what the hell The Enterprise was doing during all the Dominion War stuff. I mean Picard and his crew just stayed out of that conflict entirely? Highly unlikely.

There's a couple of books that deal with the Enterprise during the dominion war. There's also a comic I think in which Picard and crew are sent to enlist the aid of the Gorn but they're tied up with their own civil war while the Feds. were fighting the Dominion. I also remember reading a story out of Tales of the Dominion War that when the Breen attacked earth the Enterprise was is orbit and Picard beams over to a defense platform that has been captured by the Breen. Plus there's Insurrection which happens during a cease fire in the later part of the war.

The Gorn Crisis

The Enterprise is sent to secure an alliance with the Gorn during the Dominion War, while an untimely civil war in the Gorn Hegemony arises. 1 Summary 2 Background information 2.1 Credits 2.2 Cover gallery 3 Characters 3.1 Main characters 4 References 5 External link From the back cover With a...

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Tunnel Through the Stars

The Federation faces total defeat unless Captain Picard can beat the odds! Tunnel Through the Stars is a Pocket TNG novel the third novel in The Dominion War series written by John Vornholt. Published by Pocket Books, it was first released in November 1998. 1 Summary 2 Background information 3...

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Behind Enemy Lines

Captain Picard defends the Federation against the Changeling threat! Behind Enemy Lines is a Pocket TNG novel – the first novel in The Dominion War series – written by John Vornholt. Published by Pocket Books, it was first released in November 1998. From the book jacket From the Gamma Quadrant...

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Tales of the Dominion War

Tales of the Dominion War is a short story anthology – centered around the Dominion War – edited by Keith R.A. DeCandido. Published by Pocket Books, it was first released in August 2004. From the book jacket For two seasons, Star Trek: Deep Space Nine chronicled the intense struggle of the...

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[White Devil]

I'm unclear, do the Trek books even count as canon like the Star Wars EU does?

 

[Captain Syrup]

I mean Picard and his crew just stayed out of that conflict entirely? Highly unlikely.

There was a throwaway line in Insurrection about the So'na supplying the Jem'Hadar with ingredients for White.

Shows where Berman's priorities are at.

I kinda like First Contact, though; you absolutely need Picard's PTSD, Data's quest for humanity, and Worf's DS9 story arc, for it to work.

 

[Tookie]

Indeed I also like that fact that he watched in on a Sony VCR and had to point out it was a Sony. For some reason he thought that would add more importance to the statement?

People making up a bullshit story will often include extraneous details like that because they think it sounds more believable. I'm almost positive that is the case here.