Star Trek - Space: The Final Frontier

[Captain Syrup]

It feels earned and connects more because those moments are so rare, they feel earned.

Even good writers are guilty of this. A common criticism of Breaking Bad is that Cranston was overacting by the end.

Sobbing doesn't bring out the best in any actor. I blame the wild emotions of the scripts.

 

[Drag-on Knight 91873]

None of the remake cast had chemistry with each other. It just felt like strangers talking at each other instead of with.

I don't think the Kelvin movies' problem was the actors. It's that the characters they have to play have no sense of professionalism, which Plinkett refers to as "shouting is drama." TOS made it very clear that the characters are measured professionals 95% of the time, which highlights their emotional moments. It's not just Spock that does this. Really, how often do you see Scotty or Uhura freak out? Once or twice AFAIK. Go to Kelvin Trek and suddenly every character has to dislike each other. Kirk accidentally sexually harassed Uhura by grabbing her tits, Spock hates Kirk for being a smug asshole, Scotty's mad at Kirk for loading special torpedoes or something.

Beyond, to its credit, stopped doing that and had it been the second movie and not Into Darkness, Kelvin Trek would probably be serviceable pablum. But it isn't so it's not fit for purpose.

 

[ditto]

It's that the characters they have to play have no sense of professionalism

Chris Pine is playing the flanderized version of Kirk, super cocky, always right, fucking cocktail waitresses two at a time.

Kirk was never really like that. But William Shatner was.

 

[Joe Swanson]

Been watching deep space nine again and am enjoying it thoroughly, however this time I've noticed pretty much all of sisko's crew really should've been court-martialed and here's why:

Sisko: Used biological weapons on the Maquis
Kira: Joined a insurgency against the legitimate government on Bajor while holding the rank of major
O'Brian; intentionally sabotaged the station and framed junior officer
Worf: Aided a terrorist organization and help them ruin Risa
Eddington: joined the Maquis

Odo also should've been deported to Bajor after the federation retook DS9 at the very least for having relations with another changeling

 

[Miller]

That was Piller's baby. I respect him as a man, but between that and the Kazon, I am forced to admit that he wasn't a very good writer. (Jeri Taylor used the Kazon as a pretext to scrap everything he introduced, including some good stuff.) Or at least, his reach exceeded his grasp.

Granted, Ron Moore has his failings, too. It would appear that Piller really wanted to emulate Ron's approach to Star Trek. He just lacked the skill. The fact that his script for Insurrection took inspiration from Rogaine doesn't fill me with confidence, either.

Didn't Piller's health get worse by the time of VOY?

For that matter, Pine never really bonded with Quinto. The mob who slimed their way in with J.J. have no original ideas. They rely on old iconography to confuse the audience.

The JJ Trek movies were based on the pop culture version of Trek, it felt like it was written by fake geeks. Kirk, Spock and Bones were the trinity at the core of TOS, not just Kirk and Spock.

 

[Captain Syrup]

The JJ Trek movies were based on the pop culture version of Trek, it felt like it was written by fake geeks. Kirk, Spock and Bones were the trinity at the core of TOS, not just Kirk and Spock.

And what a joke that Jeri Ryan has to take direction from Nu Trek writers.

Wasn't she outspoken in an interview about how awkward it is to curse at Picard?

Been watching deep space nine again and am enjoying it thoroughly, however this time I've noticed pretty much all of sisko's crew really should've been court-martialed

Pretty much every Captain has wiped their ass with the Prime Directive, so there's that. At least on DS9, it made some sense: the Feds looked the other way when Cardassia displaced the Maquis.

Section 31 is a tacit admisson that they don't really care what happens on the frontier, only that it stays out of sight.

The rules don't apply in the Delta Quadrant or the Expanse, either. So it's unclear whether Picard would have been a good fit for either of those ships.

 

[AnOminous]

Chris Pine is playing the flanderized version of Kirk, super cocky, always right, fucking cocktail waitresses two at a time.

Kirk was never really like that. But William Shatner was.

Kirk was kind of like that, although it is exaggerated upon recollection and a lot of that is William Shatner's own personality getting melted into Kirk's. He was definitely DTF much of the time but he wasn't Jack Harkness. He was certainly willing to use his dick for diplomatic purposes, though.

And it's a good point to use the past tense in this. The William Shatner of today is not the guy who would release absolutely embarrassing shit like his cover of Rocket Man. The Shatner of today is the guy who instead released the excellent Has Been album with Ben Folds. I'm not kidding, it's unironically excellent. Don't believe me? Here's a cover of Common People by Pulp better than the original.

 

[Quintex96]

And it's a good point to use the past tense in this. The William Shatner of today is not the guy who would release absolutely embarrassing shit like his cover of Rocket Man. The Shatner of today is the guy who instead released the excellent Has Been album with Ben Folds. I'm not kidding, it's unironically excellent. Don't believe me? Here's a cover of Common People by Pulp better than the original.

You would have a point if he didn't follow up 'Has Been' with 'Seeking Major Tom'

Has Been is brilliant but it's a fluke that succeeds in spite of Shatner, not because.

 

[White Devil]

You would have a point if he didn't follow up 'Has Been' with 'Seeking Major Tom'

Has Been is brilliant but it's a fluke that succeeds in spite of Shatner, not because.

I wouldn't say that. Has Been was pretty much lightning in a bottle, most of the tracks were really good. Major Tom was not, but to say Has Been was good in spite of Shatner is disingenuous.

 

[AnOminous]

You would have a point if he didn't follow up 'Has Been' with 'Seeking Major Tom'

Has Been is brilliant but it's a fluke that succeeds in spite of Shatner, not because.

Shatner isn't a musician. But Has Been is actually good because of him, and not in spite of.

Also on the subject of Common People specifically, you can almost tell the point where Ben Folds abandoned the idea of just using Shatner as a prop where instead, he just unironically puts him front and center in this song. Shatner GOT this song.

And a lot of people don't know this, but Shatner went through some seriously dark days after the end of TOS. He was literally sleeping in his truck. He actually knows, first hand, that POOR is NOT COOL.

The line that really makes this cover. WATCHING. . .ROACHES. . .CLIMB THE WALL! Pure kino.

 

[Captain Syrup]

I wouldn't say that. Has Been was pretty much lightning in a bottle, most of the tracks were really good.

He's like Hulk Hogan in that regard: he'll try to force people to watch him. For every Has Been, you have Shatner being covered in afterbirth. (Invasion Iowa)

Jack Nicholson said it's not good for actors to talk about themselves so much. Plus, this was back in the days before Twitter and gossip sites. If your publicist can't keep a lid on this stuff...

 

[Parallel Moon]

I don't think the Kelvin movies' problem was the actors. It's that the characters they have to play have no sense of professionalism, which Plinkett refers to as "shouting is drama." TOS made it very clear that the characters are measured professionals 95% of the time, which highlights their emotional moments. It's not just Spock that does this. Really, how often do you see Scotty or Uhura freak out? Once or twice AFAIK. Go to Kelvin Trek and suddenly every character has to dislike each other. Kirk accidentally sexually harassed Uhura by grabbing her tits, Spock hates Kirk for being a smug asshole, Scotty's mad at Kirk for loading special torpedoes or something.

Beyond, to its credit, stopped doing that and had it been the second movie and not Into Darkness, Kelvin Trek would probably be serviceable pablum. But it isn't so it's not fit for purpose.

This is my biggest problem with all of nuTrek, including Discovery and Picard. These characters are all supposed to be highly distinguished professionals with years of education and experience, but everytime they are on screen they are crying, or fighting, or pitching some hysterical tantrum about something.

 

[SteelPlatedHeart]

This is my biggest problem with all of nuTrek, including Discovery and Picard. These characters are all supposed to be highly distinguished professionals with years of education and experience, but everytime they are on screen they are crying, or fighting, or pitching some hysterical tantrum about something.

Because they wanted to talk about CURRENT POLITICS which is gonna make the new stuff age like milk.

 

[ditto]

Kirk was kind of like that, although it is exaggerated upon recollection and a lot of that is William Shatner's own personality getting melted into Kirk's. He was definitely DTF much of the time but he wasn't Jack Harkness. He was certainly willing to use his dick for diplomatic purposes, though.

TOS Kirk women want him and men want to be him.

But this fucker needs a punch in the nose

This is my biggest problem with all of nuTrek, including Discovery and Picard. These characters are all supposed to be highly distinguished professionals with years of education and experience, but everytime they are on screen they are crying, or fighting, or pitching some hysterical tantrum about something.

It's the dramatic equivalent of the CD loudness wars. Everything gets louder and more emotional. Now our brave an stoic space adventures are acting like a telenovela.

 

[Parallel Moon]

Because they wanted to talk about CURRENT POLITICS which is gonna make the new stuff age like milk.

I mean, yeah, that's probably part of it, but it's like the writers of these shows don't understand that these characters are supposed to be at WORK. In the old Trek series they at least acted like they were working a job and interacting with their bosses and colleagues. Everything in nuTrek is like they are 30 and 40 year olds playacting high school drama BS. If you behaved that way in a real job, even at McDonald's, you'd be fired.

 

[SteelPlatedHeart]

I mean, yeah, that's probably part of it, but it's like the writers of these shows don't understand that these characters are supposed to be at WORK. In the old Trek series they at least acted like they were working a job and interacting with their bosses and colleagues. Everything in nuTrek is like they are 30 and 40 year olds playacting high school drama BS. If you behaved that way in a real job, even at McDonald's, you'd be fired.

 

[RomanesEuntDomus]

This is my biggest problem with all of nuTrek, including Discovery and Picard. These characters are all supposed to be highly distinguished professionals with years of education and experience, but everytime they are on screen they are crying, or fighting, or pitching some hysterical tantrum about something.

You expect them to start arguing about the correct use of gender-neutral pronouns during a pitched spacebattle, rather than trying to -y'know- not fucking die.
There is no chain of command, everyone bickers like a bunch of highschoolers during lunch break, orders are at best mild suggestions and an attitude of "FUCK YOU! YOU'RE NOT MY REAL DAD!" towards supposed superiors is always rewarded for being STUNNING and BRAVE. Add to that some grating "all men are rapist mansplaining assholes" message and you get a recipe for desaster. In order to watch this shit unironically, you need to have severe brain damage.

TOS Kirk women want him and men want to be him.

But this fucker needs a punch in the nose

You can't even imagine how angry and disappointed I was when I watched the Star Trek shitmake and it got around to the Kobayashi Maru test. The movie up to that point was pretty lackluster, but that felt like someone thrust a dagger in my heart. For decades I wondered how Kirk cheated during that test and then they put out this buttmunchung chucklefuck chewing on an apple and being a fratboy dickwad? Fuck this shit. That scene alone was reason enough to never watch a new Trek thing ever again and to think that in the times of nuTrek, this is actually one of the high points of the franchise makes me sick.

I mean, yeah, that's probably part of it, but it's like the writers of these shows don't understand that these characters are supposed to be at WORK. In the old Trek series they at least acted like they were working a job and interacting with their bosses and colleagues. Everything in nuTrek is like they are 30 and 40 year olds playacting high school drama BS. If you behaved that way in a real job, even at McDonald's, you'd be fired.

It does speak volumes of the actual work experience of the people involved in making this shit. They write about what they know from personal experience and the attitude on display by their characters is exactly the kind of shit that they engage in during their own workhours themselves.

Kinda reminds me of that CEO, that fired all interns with immediate effect, after they wrote an open letter to him about not wanting to adhere to his dresscode, where they had the gall to bring up his own choice of wardrobe and how it conflicts with the dress code that they have to follow. Imagine being such an entitled twat that you bother your boss with such a petty grievance and thinking you have a right to do so.

 

[L50LasPak]

Jack Nicholson said it's not good for actors to talk about themselves so much, because it might spill into the work. And with Shatner, it rapidly did. Plus, this was back in the days before Twitter and gossip blogs. If your publicist couldn't keep a lid on this stuff, then you had to have been the worst of the worst.

Oddly enough we live in a strange world where Shatner's negative reputation actually works in his favor. Nobody can #MeToo him or reveal him as a secret pedo because, this is William Shatner we're talking about. So many people wanted to see this guy taken down and canceled just because he was such an egotistical prick that if he really was guilty of something, we would have heard about it a long time ago.

 

[Parallel Moon]

You expect them to start arguing about the correct use of gender-neutral pronouns during a pitched spacebattle, rather than trying to -y'know- not fucking die.
There is no chain of command, everyone bickers like a bunch of highschoolers during lunch break, orders are at best mild suggestions and an attitude of "FUCK YOU! YOU'RE NOT MY REAL DAD!" towards supposed superiors is always rewarded for being STUNNING and BRAVE. Add to that some grating "all men are rapist mansplaining assholes" message and you get a recipe for desaster. In order to watch this shit unironically, you need to have severe brain damage.


You can't even imagine how angry and disappointed I was when I watched the Star Trek shitmake and it got around to the Kobayashi Maru test. The movie up to that point was pretty lackluster, but that felt like someone thrust a dagger in my heart. For decades I wondered how Kirk cheated during that test and then they put out this buttmunchung chucklefuck chewing on an apple and being a fratboy dickwad? Fuck this shit. That scene alone was reason enough to never watch a new Trek thing ever again and to think that in the times of nuTrek, this is actually one of the high points of the franchise makes me sick.


It does speak volumes of the actual work experience of the people involved in making this shit. They write about what they know from personal experience and the attitude on display by their characters is exactly the kind of shit that they engage in during their own workhours themselves.

Kinda reminds me of that CEO, that fired all interns with immediate effect, after they wrote an open letter to him about not wanting to adhere to his dresscode, where they had the gall to bring up his own choice of wardrobe and how it conflicts with the dress code that they have to follow. Imagine being such an entitled twat that you bother your boss with such a petty grievance and thinking you have a right to do so.

The way they write these characters really kills any plausibility for the story for me. Starfleet, if not an actual military, is supposed to be like a military with a chain of command and assigned roles for everyone. You can't run a ship if the number two is always being insubordinate towards the captain, the engineer is too much of a feminazi to listen to her male colleagues and the doctor is too distracted by his gay love triangle to do surgery. Starfleet would never be a successful organization if it tolerated that behavior.

No one in real life acts like this over the age of like 20 years old unless they are mentally ill and/or really stupid. People like that don't get very far unless they have a rich daddy to help them fail upwards.

We're supposed to believe that Michael whatever-the-fuck-her-name-is is a 30 something who is not only a genius and made through Starfleet but also that she was raised by Vulcans. And yet in every scene she's either crying like a little bitch or screaming at someone.

I'm thinking the writers had some rich daddies and a dose of nepotism to get to where they are.

But hey, the visual effects are pretty good.

 

[RomanesEuntDomus]

The way they write these characters really kills any plausibility for the story for me. Starfleet, if not an actual military, is supposed to be like a military with a chain of command and assigned roles for everyone. You can't run a ship if the number two is always being insubordinate towards the captain, the engineer is too much of a feminazi to listen to her male colleagues and the doctor is too distracted by his gay love triangle to do surgery. Starfleet would never be a successful organization if it tolerated that behavior.

Well, that shit is never punished, cause the story will tie itself into a knot to actually reward people for acting stupid. In a realistic setting, the moment the chain of command breaks down the way it always does in this show, the ship would basically become inoperable, leading to it being destroyed or captured.
Can't have that. Being a strong woman means to stand up for yourself. The only way these writers how to do that is being an abrasive bitch. Any superior giving an order is them dickwaving around their position and power-harassing their subordinates. The concept of actually following orders as you're told is considered toxic, cause this isn't meant to mimic any kind of organization, it's a weird and autistic version of their "ideal society in a tiny bottle". You can -nay!- have to let others know that they have no say over you. Of course it helps that they are inevitably wrong and too stupid to understand that, so it's up to our plucky female lesbian tranny heroes to show them the error of their ways by not following orders and saving the day.

It's a cheap "being a rebel is kewl" shtick that went out of fashion during the early Bush administration. Now, it's cranked up to 11 and expanded by idelogies that replace authority figures with what 4th wave feminism claims men to be (ie: violent, toxic, arrogant cavemen).

We're supposed to believe that Michael whatever-the-fuck-her-name-is is a 30 something who is not only a genius and made through Starfleet but also that she was raised by Vulcans. And yet in every scene she's either crying like a little bitch or screaming at someone.

She literally has only 2 emotions: "blank piece of plywood with a : | face" and "bawling teary puppy eyes".

I'm thinking the writers had some rich daddies and a dose of nepotism to get to where they are.

I think at this point, we can say for sure it's not just a hunch or theory. These people never had to deal with actual hardship or personel conflicts, so someone misgendering them on Twitter is like a warcrime to them. And they got to where they are cause the kissed up to the right people or popped out of a certain set of loins.
And since this nepotism has greased enough hands, there is little chance for outsiders to make room for themselves, to break up this shitty system and get actually worthwhile shit on our TV screens.

It's really ironic when you think about it. Amazon Prime, Netflix, HBO+ and all these other streaming services, you'd think this would open up the marker for a wide variety of content creators to make shows, but it's such an incestuous ratking, the ones working on projects are all birds of the same feather. In the end, all we get is the same terrible, poorly written moral grandstanding bullshit, that goes out of its way to spite old fans as a cheap gotcha instead of trying to offer entertainment for everyone.
No one ever prevented women from enjoying TOS, TNG, DS9, VOY or ENT, yet these new dicksuckers pretend like you had to swipe your mancard on the TV before being allowed to watch any of it.
Never forget: If it doesn't pander to you and shit all over anyone who's not you, it's not inclusive for some reason.

But hey, the visual effects are pretty good.

Another weird thing. The effects look nice, but every action sequence is such a clusterfuck of stuff moving and jittering up close to the camera with random zooms and tiny shit flying in all directions, you might as well film the insides of a blender that's trying to crush down a pound of pebbles.
Spacebattles are visually so confusing, they become boring with too much going on at the same time.

Just look at this crap:

Looks spectacular, sure, but I have no fucking clue what's going on, might as well just show a supercut of random explosions.

Compare that to this iconic scene:

Just 2 ships, but every exchange of fire looks like it has a huge impact on both vessels. And you know exactly what's going on, can't say that with the nuTrek shit.