Star Trek - Space: The Final Frontier

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So do the current writers of Trek just hate black men or something?

I'm not gonna lie, out of Picard, Janeway, and Sisko, I am by far the most interested in seeing what happens to Sisko next after we last saw him on screen, and yet he seems to be the only one that they have no intentions of bringing back. In truth, I know if they did bring him back, they'd just fuck him up... And it isn't lost on me that Avery Brooks probably doesn't even want to come back... But dammit, Sisko is the only captain from the *good* era of Trek who left me wanting to see more of him.

Even if it were in competent hands (and as we all know, it isn't), I wouldn't give a shit about seeing more Picard or Janeway... And yet, here we are.
 
As you said, Avery Brooks doesn't want to come back, he considers Sisko's arc as finished. Factor in all the stupid woke bullshit today that is honestly artistically insulting, and he'd have no reason to come back whatsoever. I think Brooks considers himself a real artist who wants to send a real message, not a pandering old fuck like Patrick Stewart who idly stands by while his character of three decades is thoroughly assassinated.
 
So do the current writers of Trek just hate black men or something?

I'm not gonna lie, out of Picard, Janeway, and Sisko, I am by far the most interested in seeing what happens to Sisko next after we last saw him on screen, and yet he seems to be the only one that they have no intentions of bringing back. In truth, I know if they did bring him back, they'd just fuck him up... And it isn't lost on me that Avery Brooks probably doesn't even want to come back... But dammit, Sisko is the only captain from the *good* era of Trek who left me wanting to see more of him.

Even if it were in competent hands (and as we all know, it isn't), I wouldn't give a shit about seeing more Picard or Janeway... And yet, here we are.
Ya Boi Zack did speculate that SJWs are afraid of Black Men, which is why SJW stories always make them beta-males.
 
I think Brooks considers himself a real artist who wants to send a real message, not a pandering old fuck like Patrick Stewart who idly stands by while his character of three decades is thoroughly assassinated.
Patrick Stewart is, sadly and disappointingly, even worse than that. He's literally the one who insisted on this pathetic assassination of a character he played for years and doesn't even apparently understand. I can't even say that about the worst actor to play Doctor Who (YMMV on who that is).
 
As you said, Avery Brooks doesn't want to come back, he considers Sisko's arc as finished.
And I guess this is where we see that Avery Brooks isn't quite as awesome is Sisko is. Sisko's 'arc' ended with him being a black man who abandoned his wife, son, and unborn child. Even pre-social justardization, that was a shitty message. And even at the time, I always hoped Sisko would come back eventually.
Factor in all the stupid woke bullshit today that is honestly artistically insulting, and he'd have no reason to come back whatsoever. I think Brooks considers himself a real artist who wants to send a real message, not a pandering old fuck like Patrick Stewart who idly stands by while his character of three decades is thoroughly assassinated.
This is probably (hopefully) true. I obviously don't know the man, but I always thought that Avery Brooks was significantly less woke than the (presumably mostly white) people who wrote his character...
I think he's referring to Zack Snyder.
Zack Snyder thankfully has had nothing to do with Star Trek. (Yet...) I don't think that's who he was talking about.
 
Zack Snyder thankfully has had nothing to do with Star Trek. (Yet...)
Could he possibly do a worse job? When he did Watchmen, it was clearly inferior to the original, but it still showed respect for the source material (despite Alan Moore's inevitable bitching and complaining). Is he really that bad? I think he'd at least give it the old college try.
Richard E. Grant, lol.

He's so bad that RTD made it the only piece of Doctor Who fiction to officially be struck out of the canon
Wasn't his performance literally a joke, though?
 
I always thought that Avery Brooks was significantly less woke than the (presumably mostly white) people who wrote his character
This isn't really supported by evidence. Brooks took issue with the sanitized history of Las Vegas. This was worked into the script.

"Far Beyond the Stars", which he directed. He got so deep into character, Benny's breakdown was legit.

It's hard to believe that Sisko's appreciation for African art wasn't at least inspired by Avery.

Siddig went public about Avery freezing him out, almost from day one. They were the only two 'actors of color' on the show. Siddig staged his stage name to "Alexander". Brooks, was increasingly vocal about addressing Ben Sisko's ancestors in-story. Siddig believed in the colorblind future that Gene envisioned. Avery had other ideas.

The cast and crew were required to address him as "Mister Brooks" on-set, which is eye-rolling. Brooks was a stage actor long before he stepped on a TV set, and that's just not how casts roll.

Hot take: I have always maintained that Sisko is the least consistent Captain. It's not as though he is consistently awful, but he isn’t awfully consistent, either, and depending on whether you are catching him on a bad day, he either straps a rocket to the story or makes it dive-bomb.
 
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Richard E. Grant, lol.

He's so bad that RTD made it the only piece of Doctor Who fiction to officially be struck out of the canon
The Shalka Doctor sure was a thing that happened... But he wasn't *that* bad. Especially compared to how shit the show has been for many years now... Especially in the Chinballs years)

And, I mean, Grant was ok enough that Moffat brought him back to be The Great Intelligence... And it wasn't even remotely close to the worst thing that Moffat ever did.

This isn't really supported by evidence. Sisko denounced the sanitized history of Vic Fontaine. He petitioned the writers to change the script.

"Far Beyond the Stars", which he directed. He got so deep into character, Benny's breakdown was legit.
Isn't really supported by evidence? How do you respond to this clip then?
(I'm not talking about the guy commenting on it, although I don't disagree with him... I'm talking about the Brooks clip itself, I couldn't find it clean.)

I've already said here that Sisko's actions in "Badda-Bing Badda-Bang" were retarded and completely out of character for him compared to the entire rest of DS9 in particular, and that entire era of Trek as a whole. It's also completely ridiculous compared to real life, because Frank Sinatra (who Vic Fontaine was at least partially based on) was good friends with Sammy Davis Jr, and was fairly progressive (back when that was actually a good thing) about racial shit, especially for the time. But this is really the only time we ever see Sisko display such a retarded attitude about racism. (Benny Russell doesn't count. He's an entirely different character, and tbh he's justified... because unlike Sisko, Benny did actually have to deal with racism in his life..)
"Far Beyond the Stars", which he directed. He got so deep into character, Benny's breakdown was legit.
I've addressed this as well, even before just a paragraph up. The Benny Russell episodes (especially the second one) were a bit heavy handed, but I didn't mind them at the time. Of course, even the 90's, social justards like Beher had to suck themselves off occasionally. I'm just thankful that they mostly limited it to 2/3-ish episodes out of 176 of DS9.
Hey, we also got this funny joke out of it...
It's hard to believe that Sisko's appreciation for African art wasn't at least inspired by Avery.

Siddig went public about Avery freezing him out, almost from day one. They were the only two 'actors of color' on the show. Siddig staged his stage name to "Alexander". Brooks, on the other hand, was increasingly vocal about addressing Ben Sisko's ancestors in-story. Siddig believed in the colorblind future that Gene envisioned. Looks like Avery had other ideas.
I'm not even offhand sure what you mean by "Sisko's appreciation of African art", even if that was a thing that I just forgot about DS9 (and hey, lets say that it is. I believe you) Why the fuck does it matter that a man, black or not, appreciates African art?

Also, I've literally heard no stories about issues between Siddig and Brooks. Again, would you like to share some evidence? If Brooks had a problem with Sidig, (a guy who, if I'm being honest, I didn't even realize was a "person of color" until I was much older), then I really do wonder what he thought about another actual black man joining the cast when Dorn did in season 4... Please share it all!

The cast and crew were required to address him as "Mister Brooks" on-set, which is eye-rolling. Brooks was a stage actor long before he stepped on a TV set, and that's just not how casts roll.
So he was a bit of a diva on set? This doesn't really surprise me (especially compared to his actions in recent years), nor is it particularly relevant to the discussion at hand. I don't see how him being full of himself makes him any more or less "woke".

Hot take incoming: I have always maintained that Sisko is the least consistent actor to have ever played the Captain. It's not as though he is consistently awful, but he isn’t awfully consistent, either, and depending on whether you are catching him on a bad day, he either straps a rocket to the story or makes it dive-bomb.
Everything else before this, I could just dismiss as a simple disagreement... But this is literally just retarded. How can you call Sisko the "most inconsistent" captain when both Janeway and especially Archer exist?
I'll admit Sisko had his flaws, But Janeway acted completely different from episode to episode (depending on who was writing her at the time). She was literally shown to be on both sides of multiple similar issues throughout the course of the show, and yet we were still supposed to think she was correct every time, even though I would objectively say she was wrong a lot more often than a leader should be...

Even when Sisko did the 'wrong' thing, I would still say that he did it for the right reason more often than not, and we even occasionally see him somewhat regret his actions (I'm specifically talking about 'In the Pale Moonlight' even though yeah he does end up admitting that he can live with what he did.)
We NEVER see Janeway show a similar attitude. She always had a "because I said so" attitude. And I doubt she ever even regretted a thing.

And it is headcanon to me at least, that Archer had some form of major brain damage because of how randomly crazy he could be from episode to episode. I'm pretty sure the show even leaned into it near the end, especially with that mirror universe 2 parter.
 
Yeah, but... Is TAS considered canon in any amount? I think for the most part, we like to pretend it never happened. It's... Bad.
TAS isn't worth dismissing outright like that. For one thing Yesteryear is one of the best episodes of Star Trek ever written, and there's a fair amount of of decent episodes in there.

As for the bad episodes, you haven't lived until you've seen Kirk and Spock accidentally summon Satan, and then travel to the center of the galaxy where Kirk has an honest to god fucking wizard battle with the guy in charge of the Salem Witch Trials.

This is probably (hopefully) true. I obviously don't know the man, but I always thought that Avery Brooks was significantly less woke than the (presumably mostly white) people who wrote his character...
This isn't really supported by evidence. Sisko denounced the sanitized history of Vic Fontaine. He petitioned the writers to change the script.

"Far Beyond the Stars", which he directed. He got so deep into character, Benny's breakdown was legit.

It's hard to believe that Sisko's appreciation for African art wasn't at least inspired by Avery.
In my opinion, Avery Brooks is an oldschool "racially conscious" actor. Something everyone used to consider woke before The Wokening began and really gave that term the baggage it deserves. Its hard to put my finger on why I still respect demagouges like Brooks, but I suppose it would have to be that he actually has the strength of his convictions in what he believes and seems to have done a fair amount of research on the topic to better educate his point of view.

For instance, Far Beyond the Stars was an unquestionably racially motivated episode, but all of the chracters in it were based on real science fiction authors of the era, and based on the actual discrimination that went on behind closed doors. They didn't make shit up or exaggerate or even demonize wiypipo all that much. Its blunt, but it tries to really explore the issues and actually humanizes the situation a great deal. Hence why even though I went in expecting that episode to be a massive pile of shit I still came out of it thinking its a great episode.

We can all agree that modern Wokesters clearly do not care about the racial messages or motivations behind any of their actions, and are just trying to pay lipservice to it to get ahead, shake some kind of white guilt on their conscience or just want free shit. Brooks is someone I would probably disagree with a great deal if I had a conversation with him, but I think it'd still be a fairly intellectual discussion instead of a bunch of bullshit buzzwords and canned marketing slogans.

Then again, maybe he is a wokester and just wisely keeps to himself. He seems smarter than that to me, but I admit I have no real proof of it.
 
Loved seeing the Star Trek VI era uniforms.
"Flashback" > "These Are the Voyages..."

There's some great unintentional comedy, as well:
  • Sulu steps out of the smoke like a dog smelling a sausage
  • "My....goooooooood"
  • Janeway knocking out Rand and stealing her uniform
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Everything else before this, I could just dismiss as a simple disagreement... But this is literally just retarded. How can you call Sisko the "most inconsistent" captain when both Janeway and especially Archer exist?
Mulgrew was holding up the show with her bare hands, trying to give the material some meaning. Even if she was fighting a losing battle. Archer had such an even keel of sameness that I can't really indict him.

You really need to re-watch season one DS9 with open eyes. Sisko has visibly stopped caring about anything but what's for lunch. It takes him years to get to a point where he feels 'natural.'
 
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Before Seven arrived, Mulgrew was holding up the show with her bare hands, trying to give the material some meaning. Even if she was fighting a losing battle. (Which she frequently was.) Archer had such an even keel of sameness that I can't really indict him.

You really need to re-watch the early years of DS9 with open eyes. Sisko has visibly stopped caring about anything but what's for lunch. It takes him years to get to a point where he feels ''natural', like Shatner and Mulgrew do.
IMO, he got his natural stride in Explorers, the one with the solar sailboat. It's also the episode where he grew the beard.
 
Before Seven arrived, Mulgrew was holding up the show with her bare hands, trying to give the material some meaning. Even if she was fighting a losing battle. (Which she frequently was.) Archer had such an even keel of sameness that I can't really indict him.

You really need to re-watch the early years of DS9 with open eyes. Sisko has visibly stopped caring about anything but what's for lunch. It takes him years to get to a point where he feels ''natural', like Shatner and Mulgrew do.
I don't even particularly dislike Janeway, but it is a matter of fact that Voyager lacked a clear and consistent vision from the very beginning, and the multiple writers of the show all wrote her to be wildly different from episode to episode, because they all wanted her to be entirely different things.

As she was written, Janeway completely changed her entire worldview from episode to episode depending on who was writing her at the time. And Seven had nothing to do with any of that. (Although if anything, Janeway got even more inconsistent after Seven joined the crew.)
 
Before Seven arrived, Mulgrew was holding up the show with her bare hands, trying to give the material some meaning. Even if she was fighting a losing battle. (Which she frequently was.) Archer had such an even keel of sameness that I can't really indict him.
Unpopular opinion, but I enjoyed pre-Seven Voyager more than the latter seasons. TNG-lite and balances Janeway, Tuvok, the Doctor & Kes and B'lenna much better than later on. Tuvok and Janeway really got sidelined in latter seasons when it became the Doctor and Seven show.
It's also the one where Gul Dukat has to give Sisko a fireworks display. The plain weirdest moment in the whole of DS9.
 
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