Star Trek - Space: The Final Frontier

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jennifermist said:
Fake news.

You know World War I was a family feud, right? Willy and Nicky were exchanging letters while sending their own citizens into a meat grinder.
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Not to mention the white feathering feminist cunts and the public's universal utter disdain of the idiots who survived.

It was just a test to see if they could make a lot of money selling guns to both sides, and it worked so well they did it again for WW2 but on a larger scale and then repeated it ever since.

They even tried to imitate it with Quark in DS9 and mentioning his brother who was into selling weapons and war profiteering. but Quark is a people person so he never got into that business.

By " solidarity and collective unity" it was more of an idea who they were as individuals and where they stood in relation to each other and not just cutting their nuts off and wanting everyone to think they're special for it like the Tards of today that are so prominently featured on this very site.

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Quark's quote on selling weapons and why he didnt follow his brother:
 
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Nick Gurs said:
The kingdoms and empires never truly failed, simply evolved over time as technology and quality of life improved. We are experiencing the late stages of a civilization in decline.

Also don't forget the while WW3 and Genetics wars arcs that happened before the first warp drive was created and tested to get the Vulcan's attention at least 100 years before the steps leading to the founding of the federation.
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Yeah, most Star Trek fans ignore that the 21th century sucked mightily and it took a Vulcan Deus Ex Machina for Star Trek land to exist. In Star Trek canon, the Bell Riots were the beginning of World War 3 caused by the elites not caring about the poor people they shipped into the ghetto. The United States didn't bother correcting the mass social problems because they were a bunch of Gilded age twats. Actual order broke down during the war and trials became entertainment over finding the truth.

Which does beg the question of why the Vulcans would bother rebuilding Earth in the first place. Cochrane's community was in the middle of the woods. Wouldn't it make more sense for the Vulcans to uplift that one community and take them to Vulcan for enlightenment purposes instead?
 
Drag-on Knight 91873 said:
Yeah, most Star Trek fans ignore that the 21th century sucked mightily and it took a Vulcan Deus Ex Machina for Star Trek land to exist. In Star Trek canon, the Bell Riots were the beginning of World War 3 caused by the elites not caring about the poor people they shipped into the ghetto. The United States didn't bother correcting the mass social problems because they were a bunch of Gilded age twats. Actual order broke down during the war and trials became entertainment over finding the truth.

Which does beg the question of why the Vulcans would bother rebuilding Earth in the first place. Cochrane's community was in the middle of the woods. Wouldn't it make more sense for the Vulcans to uplift that one community and take them to Vulcan for enlightenment purposes instead?
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Two reasons why they didnt do that:

it wouldn't make for a very good way to sell merchandise like diecast Enterprises or various other ships. (Nu trek is ok with the eaglemoss stuff but their taste in other merch is abysmal.)

"In a mirror darkly" shows what probably would have happened and Cochrane pulls out a shotgun at point blank and leads a flash raid onto that vulcan ship.

They probably didnt because they needed to see if they were trustworthy first before exposing their planet to a potential impending war mongering race knowing where they live within a few decades? Since they also saw what happened during the 21st and 22nd centuries from orbit. Why would they bring that shit back home right away? Enterprise did an ok job of showing the initial distrust of the vulcans through to the end.

Its no different than what Starfleet's SOP is anyway and is where they likely got their first contact protocol from.
 
Drag-on Knight 91873 said:
World War 3 caused by the elites not caring about the poor people they shipped into the ghetto. The United States didn't bother correcting the mass social problems because they were a bunch of Gilded age twats.
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"This is just another page in history, isn't it? Will this be the end of our civilization? Turn the page."
 
Nick Gurs said:
Two reasons why they didnt do that:

it wouldn't make for a very good way to sell merchandise like diecast Enterprises or various other ships. (Nu trek is ok with the eaglemoss stuff but their taste in other merch is abysmal.)

"In a mirror darkly" shows what probably would have happened and Cochrane pulls out a shotgun at point blank and leads a flash raid onto that vulcan ship.

They probably didnt because they needed to see if they were trustworthy first before exposing their planet to a potential impending war mongering race knowing where they live within a few decades? Since they also saw what happened during the 21st and 22nd centuries from orbit. Why would they bring that shit back home right away? Enterprise did an ok job of showing the initial distrust of the vulcans through to the end.

Its no different than what Starfleet's SOP is anyway and is where they likely got their first contact protocol from.
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Sure, but why bother rebuilding the infrastructure that got bombed away from WWIII? It'd be like rebuilding African infrastructure.
EMPIRE-OF-DUST-ITS-ALL-SO-TIRESOME.gif
 
Drag-on Knight 91873 said:
And as I posted much earlier in this thread, the so-called "post scarcity" society is built out of all the colonies the Federation randomly and shabbily set up all over the place. If it starts a border war with the Shelliak, Talarians, Tzenkethi, or the Cardassians, then the Feds will negotiate a bizarre treaty that inevitably fucks over the colonists in one form or another. It's really important for Feds to get replicated protein molecules and textured carbohydrates. Who cares if a colony has rape gangs in it?
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Citizen, rape gangs are a standard part of the treaty form and it's no longer possible to modify treaty forms since the DMV wars of 2187. Note section 8 subsection j paragraph 15 of the Child sacrifice codes section iiii: rape gangs must follow any treaty for a colony within 50 ly of an alien border and are to be strictly enforced to adhere to all accepted rituals and stereotypes.
 
I think in Japan, Star Wars is somewhat popular, while Star Trek is a more obscure "geeky" thing. So it's like in the West?
 
jennifermist said:
Fake news.

You know World War I was a family feud, right? Willy and Nicky were exchanging letters while sending their own citizens into a meat grinder.
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They were actually trying to avoid fighting each other, but their peoples had too much bad blood with each other. If they could, they would have avoided a war, so they can just keep ruling. But the Teutons and the Slavs hated each other to the point where war was inevitable.

Nick Gurs said:
The kingdoms and empires never truly failed, simply evolved over time as technology and quality of life improved. We are experiencing the late stages of a civilization in decline.

Also don't forget the WW3 and Genetics wars arcs that happened before the first warp drive was created and tested to get the Vulcan's attention at least 100 years before the steps leading to the founding of the federation. It took several hells of wakeup calls for Earth to start to remotely get its shit together.

"remember when you used to control your soldiers with drugs?"-Q

very relevant today with the likes of IP2 becoming more and more common.
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Basically, yes. Not to mention that we're in the late stages of a Republic in decline, and in many instances, those states turn back into Empires. The Roman Republic spent a lot of time fighting empires until they eventually became an empire themselves.

Q's quote is becoming more relevant today as people are being made to take experimental drugs in order to become functioning members of society once again.
 
ToroidalBoat said:
I think in Japan, Star Wars is somewhat popular, while Star Trek is a more obscure "geeky" thing. So it's like in the West?
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afaik all of trek has moondubs, and at least TNG onward ran vaguely concurrent with its USA release
like legends say one of the VAs for G Gundam was cast because the director was like "dude fukking you voice Data that's baller af"
 
jennifermist said:
Death Stranding touched on this, as well, with characters downing oxytocin pills to replace social interaction.
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That might become the norm in the future. Especially with new pandemics on the horizon. If you've done your research, then you know that the post-antibiotic era is soon to be upon us.


XYZpdq said:
afaik all of trek has moondubs, and at least TNG onward ran vaguely concurrent with its USA release
like legends say one of the VAs for G Gundam was cast because the director was like "dude fukking you voice Data that's baller af"
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Can you just imagine a crossover between G Gundam and Star Trek?

"The Borg Cube has repaired itself from our attack WITH THE HELP OF KYOJI!"
 
Nick Gurs said:
I think the space battles were so exaggerated to drive home the point of "sending men and women to die and not being happy about it" that the head of Starfleet at the time mentioned. Cant remember his name as he was more of a side character to the main plot, but I also agree. The faggotry agenda theyve pushed hardcore over the last decade proves it. If it wasnt Jar Jar, it wouldve been Troon flashclone #43535 who would simply cease to exist two years later anyway and erasing any semblance of the greatness of western culture over the last 100 years at least and replacing it with garbage under the same name. So when new people are curious, they think of that garbage and not what came before.
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That's a pretty charitable interpretation, I think they just wanted them to look more like Star Wars. The first confrontation in Wrath of Khan does a way better job of showing the impact of battle while being suspenseful and not making the ships pop like mosquitos in a fly zapper. I probably don't have to link it, but I'm going to anyway for emphasis.


I cringe every time one of these supposedly massive ships with hundreds of crew members pops like a TIE Fighter. I love DS9 but the space battles are one of its biggest failures in my opinion. The CGI still holds up remarkably well though, considering we're dealing with a 90s TV show here.

LORD IMPERATOR said:
That's because having nuanced bad guys that you can sympathize with even as you're fighting them is no longer kosher in the eyes of the modern media illiterati.
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Isn't the reason the writers made Dukat become a literal demon because they thought they made him too sympathetic and wanted to backpedal? I maintain that he should have died in that cult episode, would have been the perfect end for his character.
 
There's nothing at all wrong with DS9, and to compare it to JJ Trek is retarded. Even if there are some similarities between the two, DS9 worked because that was not the norm for Trek at the time. Yeah it had massive ship battles that were likewise not normal for Trek, but that was the entire point, and it's why DS9 was so fucking fantastic and still holds up. "What happens to a functional utopia of fucking science nerds when it's being challenged by an over-powered, and unreasonable antagonistic force?" Was a fucking amazing response to TNG, and I'm still convinced that Behr was too stupid to know what the show he was running was actually saying, because he doesn't seem to actually understand it in any interview I've ever seen him give.

On the other hand, JJ Trek made that shit the norm, and it retroactively made it the norm from almost the earliest point of the Trek timeline, and it is entirely the reason why STD, STP, and that shitty cartoon all suck so much.
 
UnKillShredDur said:
There's nothing at all wrong with DS9, and to compare it to JJ Trek is retarded. Even if there are some similarities between the two, DS9 worked because that was not the norm for Trek at the time. Yeah it had massive ship battles that were likewise not normal for Trek, but that was the entire point, and it's why DS9 was so fucking fantastic and still holds up. "What happens to a functional utopia of fucking science nerds when it's being challenged by an over-powered, and unreasonable antagonistic force?" Was a fucking amazing response to TNG, and I'm still convinced that Behr was too stupid to know what the show he was running was actually saying, because he doesn't seem to actually understand it in any interview I've ever seen him give.

On the other hand, JJ Trek made that shit the norm, and it retroactively made it the norm from almost the earliest point of the Trek timeline, and it is entirely the reason why STD, STP, and that shitty cartoon all suck so much.
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And even the ship battles were very rare. There's maybe 10 of them in seven years. Abramsverse has CGI explosions every 10 minutes.
 
Intelligent Calcium said:
I cringe every time one of these supposedly massive ships with hundreds of crew members pops like a TIE Fighter. I love DS9 but the space battles are one of its biggest failures in my opinion. The CGI still holds up remarkably well though, considering we're dealing with a 90s TV show here.
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Those massive, tightly packed formations, explosions and so on look pretty spectacular... until you really think about how none of it makes any sense and the spaceships blowing up like little fighters is indeed kinda weird. ST2 did a perfect job of making a very small and short exchange of barrages look utterly amazing and the story made it suspenseful.
The DS9 battle looks nice and even though there's a lot of ships on screen going all over the place, it's by far not a clusterfuck of moving stuff that the nuTrek has become.

ST would do better to treat these battles like massive naval engagements between destroyers and cruisers, not like WW2 dogfights. Showing ships being hit by a barrage, which cripples their equippement and leaving the ship to tumble away into deep space would be a better way to go about it than to have them pop like balloons (it's kinda a pet-peeve of mine in space sims, too).
I also understand that they want to highlight the number of ships by showing them tightly packed across the screen, but a formation like that would be next to worthless, since no ship has the ability to maneuver, let alone an open firing arc that doesn't run the risk of friendly fire. The ships should be way further apart and overlap their firing arcs, not block them. It's the rule of cool at work, so I can forgive the show for doing it the way they did it and I have to reiterate: It looks spectacular.

Comparing it to the clusterfuck of nuTrek, one thing pops out: DS9 has equally massive in scope engagements between ships, but you can still tell what's going on. NuTrek is like watching two swarms of flies buzz around a dogturd with explosions and lasers cut into the footage.

Star Trek seems like it doesn't really take advantage of their own setting by handling battles the way they did in DS9 tbh...
The Expanse applied newtonian physics and a low-tech setting to create very amazing spacebattles. They really took advantage of what made the show unique and it is on full display when ships start to exchange fire. The effects of high-G maneuvers or microgravity when the main engines fail play a huge rule in every fight they Rocinante gets into. It makes for very memorable scenes.

UnKillShredDur said:
There's nothing at all wrong with DS9, and to compare it to JJ Trek is retarded. Even if there are some similarities between the two, DS9 worked because that was not the norm for Trek at the time. Yeah it had massive ship battles that were likewise not normal for Trek, but that was the entire point, and it's why DS9 was so fucking fantastic and still holds up. "What happens to a functional utopia of fucking science nerds when it's being challenged by an over-powered, and unreasonable antagonistic force?" Was a fucking amazing response to TNG, and I'm still convinced that Behr was too stupid to know what the show he was running was actually saying, because he doesn't seem to actually understand it in any interview I've ever seen him give.

On the other hand, JJ Trek made that shit the norm, and it retroactively made it the norm from almost the earliest point of the Trek timeline, and it is entirely the reason why STD, STP, and that shitty cartoon all suck so much.
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I dunno, this seems really contradictory to me. You first say one can't compare DS9 to nuTrek, then you go on to describe how they basically do the same thing.

DS9 started the trend of gritty Trek, which was fine as a one off. Unfortunately, for one reason or the other (most likely not to ape DS9 but rather to draw in the Micheal Bay crowd), Abramtrek made it a lot more gritty. Kurtzmantrek made it even worse and slapped some really poorly executed political shit into the show in a hamfisted manner, not out of conviction, but rather to cash in on a trend. Comparisons are more than justified, if only to show why DS9 was doing a good job at what it did and nuTrek just doesn't.
 
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