Star Trek - Space: The Final Frontier

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Seasons 1 & 2 do have "Datalore", "Conspiracy", "Elementary, Dear Data" and "Q Who" as actually good episodes. There's also some which are enjoyably cheesy - like "Angel One" with its COVID B plot or "Peak Performance" with its incomprehensible game and "Samaritan Snare" which is tone perfect tech support.

Oh, and whichever episode it is with that stupid Japanese sounding martial art Riker does with his dad, shit's hilarious.
 
Just imagine the Traveler sliding those sausage fingers inside Wesley. Because that's pretty much what I assume happens offscreen.
"There's your warp bubble, Wesley..."
"Samaritan Snare" which is tone perfect tech support.
I'll take 24-hour, live tech support from a Zakdorn on Zoom. He'll treat you like shit, but at least it's a real person.

The reality is closer to this chucklefuck:

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He has a mandate that he needs to be available via phone, but goes to great lengths to obfuscate how to navigate the menus.
 
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Question for fans of all levels: does any trek fan honestly like "The Search for Spock" at all? I jokingly gave a copy of it on DVD to a friend.. who almost gave it back to me..and she is a bigger trek fan than I am.
The Search for Spock is definitely a tying up loose ends movie and the explanation for Spock coming back is plain silly nonsense... but they did have to you know tie up the loose ends from Wrath of Khan and gotta have Spock back so they could go in a fresh direction which they did with the next two movies. Even if The Final Frontier is the drug prostituting son of the franchise.
 
"There's your warp bubble, Wesley..."


I'll take 24-hour, live tech support from a Zakdorn on Zoom. He'll treat you like shit, but at least it's a real person. The reality is closer to this chucklefuck:

View attachment 2342121

He has a mandate that he needs to be available via phone, but goes to great lengths to obfuscate how to navigate the menus.

Ah Vincent Schivalli. I'll always remember him for the Dorf videos.

 
The biggest problem with Star Trek V is how they got to fly from one desert planet to the next planet. This is because the plot importance of the ship was really overblown. Also, all the contrived reasons why the ship doesn't work because no one's fixed it and everyone's on vacation, so only the senior staff are the ones to go plus some guards. Sybok's entire plan hinges on hijacking a big enough ship to travel to the center of the galaxy. Even though Sybok came to that first desert planet by ship some time earlier after he was exiled for rejecting Vulcan Orthodoxy.

What would have made this movie work, more or less, is if it was MORE like a TOS episode. In a typical TOS episode, they're told to investigate a planet for some reason and they encounter an alien doing some kind of thing whether it's Apollo or Trelane or Flint. They then spend most of the time on the planet while the ship gets disabled or busy to prevent it from deus ex machina-ing the solution.

So, here's my horribly belated pitch. The first desert planet is where God is located, and Sybok found the location. God tells him he needs lots of followers, so he gets Sybok to convert the entire joint-species city into following him on his pilgrimage (hajj). The Enterprise is sent to investigate and the trio beam down to INVESTIGATE, not do battle. Sybok forces the three of them to go on his pilgrimage based on some kind of blackmail (possibly the ambassadors have gone on this death march pilgrimage) where they challenge each other ideologically and have those wonderful vision moments. Meanwhile, the Klingons show up and start firing at the Enterprise, which locks down the ship from helping the away team. They meet God and it turns out he's just some golem asshole who sucks the life out of his followers, like Apollo. Kirk gets a message out telling the Enterprise the ambassadors are alive and well, but then the golem attacks. Back on the ship, they send a message to the Klingons their ambassador is alive, so they can team up and beam their citizens onto their ships, leaving the golem alone on the planet.
 
Seasons 1 & 2 do have "Datalore", "Conspiracy", "Elementary, Dear Data" and "Q Who" as actually good episodes. There's also some which are enjoyably cheesy - like "Angel One" with its COVID B plot or "Peak Performance" with its incomprehensible game and "Samaritan Snare" which is tone perfect tech support.

Oh, and whichever episode it is with that stupid Japanese sounding martial art Riker does with his dad, shit's hilarious.
yeah if you lived through that alamaraine bullshit or lots of silly parts of TOS you'll survive s1 and s2's duds
 
The biggest problem with Star Trek V is how they got to fly from one desert planet to the next planet.
No ship can reach the center of the galaxy because of the radiation? Literally no ship has ever returned but if you have the name "Enterprise" written on yours, then you're fine.

oh, and the Klingons also make it through, huh

I guess the whole 'no ship can survive the trip' WAS A BUNCH OF BULLSHIT, RIGHT MISTER SHATNER DIRECTOR SIR?

Pine once asked his director why Kirk was running to the bridge and out of breath. JJ's response was along the lines of, 'the audience won't care, all they'll remember is the excitement of this moment.'

V is full of these "moments." We know what we're in for as soon as Sybok removes his hood and laughs like a pirate. The bald guy explains, "You're a Vulcan!" as though he's never heard of a Romulan before. Shatner was just in the love with the image of a giddy Vulcan.
 
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Seasons 1 & 2 do have "Datalore", "Conspiracy", "Elementary, Dear Data" and "Q Who" as actually good episodes. There's also some which are enjoyably cheesy - like "Angel One" with its COVID B plot or "Peak Performance" with its incomprehensible game and "Samaritan Snare" which is tone perfect tech support.

Oh, and whichever episode it is with that stupid Japanese sounding martial art Riker does with his dad, shit's hilarious.
That was from season 2, The Icarus Factor. It's funny how the whole episode is fairly grounded overall between the A-plot (Riker juggling his feelings about taking on a command of his own and dealing with his estranged father) and B-plot (Worf is missing out on a Klingon ritual so the crew set it up for him in the holodeck)...and then bam, the goofiest martial arts scene happens. I dunno what they were thinking when they came up with that, but I guess you just have to chalk it up to early season weirdness.

I've gone on record saying this in the thread before, but I think that season 1 of TNG is in the same boat as the odd-numbered TOS films in that a lot of the hate comes from being compared unfavorably with the better seasons. It's certainly the weakest season and has some things that drag it down (Wesley being the biggest), but it's also not complete garbage like nu-Trek, and it's got some fun episodes to watch. Even the particularly bad episodes usually have some cheesiness to enjoy; "fully-functional," anyone? I disagree with advice to skip it entirely because it's laying the foundations for what comes later (you'd miss some plot details from Yesterday's Enterprise if you didn't know who Tasha Yar was, for instance).

And now for a completely unrelated video:
 
V is full of these "moments." But there's nothing threading them together. We know what we're in for as soon as Sybok removes his hood and laughs like a pirate. The bald guy explains, "You're a Vulcan!" as though he's never heard of a Romulan before. This was TOS era. No distinctive forehead to distinguish him. Shatner was just in the love with the image of a giddy Vulcan.
V reminds me of a Monty Python movie where the plot is just there to connect a loose series of sketches.
 
V is junk food, I think it has its place. As I've said before, is it a good movie? Strictly speaking? No. Is it a decent Star Trek movie? I'd argue, at times, yes. The relation between the main three in the movie is the closest it is to the show. I think it was good to see them laughing and having some fun.

The plot is worthy of one from ToS, too. In fact it's essentially "The Way to Eden", which I'm sure Shatner was well aware of. Sybock was a good concept. I just wish they hadn't used him as a brother, which makes little sense and probably emboldened the Discovery retards to use Big Mikey Spock as his sister.
 
OK, I'll give my thoughts on the films:

Motion Picture = Beautiful looking film with special effects that still look fantastic today, and I'd put it right up there with Star Wars and 2001. The music is also fantastic. Additionally, I give it credit for being the film that best recaptured the structure of the original show. The problem is that while Star Trek is, to me, always at its best when its people sitting around a room talking, the stuff they are talking about has to be interesting to carry the film and this film just doesn't have that at all, equating to a film that feels directionless and lifeless with a reveal at the end that does almost nothing for me. In the end, its a glossy and pretty looking box of nothing.

Wrath of Khan = My favorite Star Trek thing ever made. It was my first exposure to Star Trek, so I'm biased, but it is still one of my all time favorite films. What makes it work is not only Khan's entire presence as a villain and his Ahab like obsession with Kirk, but also the fact that instead of hiding the fact that the actors had aged, they showcased it and integrated it into the story. The emotional stakes are also much higher in this film, and the last few minutes still bring a tear to my eye whenever I watch it. Not just for that thing that everyone knows about, but for Kirk's last line as he gazes into the stars: "Young...I feel....young". Its beautiful.

Search for Spock = I hate this movie because it completely undoes the big events in Wrath of Khan, making it feel like a big reset button. Its got some fun moments, like Christopher Lloyd as a cornball villain, but the movie angers me on a conceptual level.

The Voyage Home = On paper, this should be the worst one, but its actually one of the best, probably my second favorite behind Wrath of Khan. What makes it work is the comedic approach to it, but it also feels like a large scale version of one of TOS' time travel stories, and it works wonderfully for me. Its the least Sci-Fi/Action-y of the films, but that actually works in its favor and helps it carve its own niche in the franchise.

The Final Frontier = Everyone says its bad and it is bad. What is a shame though is that there are some genuinely good moments and ideas in this. Its corny, but I kind of like Kirk, Spock, and McCoy bonding over a campfire. I love the idea of a Vulcan being the bad guy and brainwashing everyone to his side. And the whole search for God is an ideal Star Trek exploration story, is it not? But most of it is handled so poorly that it comes off as more of a farce than anything else. A shame really, but hey, that's what happens when you let William Shatner direct.

The Undiscovered Country = Probably the most under appreciated Trek film. The nicest thing I typically hear people say about it is that "Its one of the Evens, so its good" but its an overall really good movie. The end of the Cold War allegory is obvious, but handled well and gives us that nice bridge between TOS and what we see in TNG. Also, its a courtroom drama story, something that Star Trek typically excels at. Again, its kind of overlooked from time to time, but if you've never seen it, give it a look. It also serves as a nice farewell for the original cast.

Generations = Probably the biggest missed opportunity in the franchise. Kirk and Picard together? The first TNG film??? Whoa! Unfortunately what we get is a total mess that doesn't live up to its potential.

First Contact = Its the best of the TNG films, which isn't saying much. Unfortunately, now that I've seen DS9, this movie makes even less sense. Where was the Enterprise during the whole Dominion war? And the Borg felt like old hat by this point (they were barely a threat by the end of TNG), so bringing them back felt like a hollow attempt to live off of TNG's past. Also, I felt like Picard had already dealt with the trauma of his experiences, so him being a rage beast felt odd. But to the film's credit, there are genuinely good moments with the cast, and us getting to see big historic moments like the First Contact was all pretty cool. Flawed film, for sure, but best of the TNG films.

Insurrection = Honest to God, I can't remember anything about this film except for Data going rogue. It is such a thoroughly forgettable film and I'm sure I'll never watch it again, so....yeah.

Nemesis = Not a good farewell for the TNG cast or films. They crammed so much into this and so much of it is dumb, that its a messy and disjointed story that completely undoes any potential the concept might have. But hey, young Tom Hardy, so there is that, lol.

Star Trek (09) = Oh JJ Abrams....what to say about this. Here's the thing. If you ignore that its Star Trek, this is actually a fun space adventure film with fun moments. But there are so many moments that break from Star Trek knowledge (even for someone like me whose knowledge is not encyclopedic) that in order to enjoy the film, you kind of have to turn your brain off and enjoy the ride if you are going to get any enjoyment out of it. Also, I am still waiting for an explanation as to what the hell Nero was doing for all those years between his arrival and the events of the main story. I will say this, I did genuinely enjoy the cast who mostly slip into these roles mostly ok, especially Urban as McCoy who was uncanny.

Into Darkness = After the 09 film, I thought that Wrath of Khan was the only Trek thing that JJ ever watched. After this one, I became completely convinced of it. This was a dull and lifeless entry that tried super hard to use the past to keep the fans happy while they get away with a bunch of inane BS, but it didn't work. Of the Kelvin universe Trek films, this one was by far the worst.

Beyond = I'd say this one was the best of the Kelvin films. That's not saying much, but it had more of the feel of classic Trek (moreso than the other two did) and pretty much just let the cast have fun and bounce off of each other. If this had been the first Trek film of the revival, it probably would be better received, but by this point, the bloom was off the rose and I think people just kind of ignored it. But generally, I had fun with it and its the least offensive of the three.
 
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Search for Spock = I hate this movie because it completely undoes the big events in Wrath of Khan, making it feel like a big reset button. Its got some fun moments, like Christopher Lloyd as a cornball villain, but the movie angers me on a conceptual level.
By the time I saw it, well into the 1990s, I already knew Spock died and was brought back to life, so I didn't have the same hang-up as you and I actually kind of like III. Lloyd makes it for me. I feel like it really did a lot to hammer out what the Kilngons would become. In TOS they're basically just brown dudes in space playing dirty politics, in III they're obsessed with war and violence and want to be killed for losing a battle.

Insurrection = Honest to God, I can't remember anything about this film except for Data going rogue. It is such a thoroughly forgettable film and I'm sure I'll never watch it again, so....yeah.
It has Piccard getting his dick wet and the guys who get their faces torn off and stretched back onto their heads to look younger. That's it.

Beyond = I'd say this one was the best of the Kelvin films. That's not saying much, but it had more of the feel of classic Trek (moreso than the other two did) and pretty much just let the cast have fun and bounce off of each other. If this had been the first Trek film of the revival, it probably would be better received, but by this point, the bloom was off the rose and I think people just kind of ignored it. But generally, I had fun with it and its the least offensive of the three.
I had fun with Beyond too. It wasn't perfect, but it felt closest to TOS.
 
I would like to see a edit of all of TNG where Wesley is completely edited out.
Wil Wheaton is as lovable as pubic lice; he's been handed the worst of character specs; he's not a character I am sad to be losing. Maybe in Jeri Taylor's mind, but not mine.
Insurrection = Honest to God, I can't remember anything about this film except for Data going rogue.
Supposedly Piller's draft was much darker, with Data being killed off at the end, possibly by Picard himself.
 
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V is junk food, I think it has its place. As I've said before, is it a good movie? Strictly speaking? No. Is it a decent Star Trek movie? I'd argue, at times, yes. The relation between the main three in the movie is the closest it is to the show. I think it was good to see them laughing and having some fun.

The plot is worthy of one from ToS, too. In fact it's essentially "The Way to Eden", which I'm sure Shatner was well aware of. Sybock was a good concept. I just wish they hadn't used him as a brother, which makes little sense and probably emboldened the Discovery retards to use Big Mikey Spock as his sister.
I was thinking The Apple myself. God turned out to be a giant asshole computer.
 
I was like 8 or 9 when Search for Spock came out. I was happy to have Spock back. I was upset that he was killed off and it felt like an error was being corrected. I was also relieved when Optimus Prime was brought back. (I fully believe Transformers was just ripping off what Wrath of Khan did.)

My opinion hasn't changed much. The Star Trek TOS movies would have sucked without Spock.
 
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