Star Trek - Space: The Final Frontier

  • Want to keep track of this thread?
    Accounts can bookmark posts, watch threads for updates, and jump back to where you stopped reading.
    Create account
I mean..its not the worst idea ever. Its how we got TNG and DS9 after all.

But seeing how STD and Picard turned out...I have no hope, no hope at all. I do not for one second believe current Hollywood types can produce anything close to what Star Trek should be.

They can't even properly establish a crew of compelling and interesting characters in TV series. How do they expect to do it in a movie and tell a compelling and interesting story?

JJ's films really only established three characters of the crew. The rest relied on us knowing the originals.

Now it's a waiting game to see how long until we hear something like, "Star Trek meets Guardians of the Galaxy."
 
Try Season 9.

That's why I said around Season 10. Some say earlier, some say later, but around then is when The Simpsons became Zombie Simps. At least with Star Trek, there's a much clearer mark of when the show definitely and completely lost what ST was, like @Sweet and Savoury said.

They still think The Simpsons is cutting-edge and relevant.

IIRC MovieBob made the hot take that the Simpsons didn't change, the viewers did.
 
That's why I said around Season 10. Some say earlier, some say later, but around then is when The Simpsons became Zombie Simps. At least with Star Trek, there's a much clearer mark of when the show definitely and completely lost what ST was, like @Sweet and Savoury said.



IIRC MovieBob made the hot take that the Simpsons didn't change, the viewers did.
All comedy shows changed for the worst. I rewatched random clips of Married with Children and still found myself laughing just as hard as when I first saw the episode and it's because the pacing of those jokes was tight and fast. Same with Night Court or any other comedy in the 80s. In regards to Zombie Simpsons, the art direction and the writing got inverted. Early Simpsons had sometimes janky art, but tight, quick strings of jokes. Zombie Simpsons spread out a joke over two or three minutes of art sequences, which gets me to think the artists are the ones doing the heavy lifting while the writers throw whatever inside joke they had at the meetings.

Now that I think about it, The Critic TV show had many of the same failings as Zombie Simpsons where the movie reference serves as the joke. I think we can infer why.
 
"Classical music"

That film is at least entertaining. I like the cast. I actually would like them to come up with a good story and just make another film with them over anything else. I don't trust they can come up with original characters of any worth after the TV shows. WTF is Raffi and Tilly?
Yeah, Star Trek Beyond is at least in the right zip code of being a trek film. I would definitely watch it again over the other 2. I'd be willing to give the director another shot - especially if he could be free of studio meddling.
 
I'm kind of shocked anyone still has the energy to react to this stuff. Isn't this all the stuff we predicted two-three years ago when Picard was first announced and Discovery was already going under?

At this point I'm excited to see just how bastardized they can possibly make it. I already knew it was going to suck anyway, so lets see how much of a disaster it can possibly turn into. I want to keep feeding them rope until they hang everyone. There's nowhere to go but down, right? Then god damnit, let's see what's down there!
 
kirkkhan.jpg
 
They can't even properly establish a crew of compelling and interesting characters in TV series. How do they expect to do it in a movie and tell a compelling and interesting story?
We both know how they'll attempt to, though: Whedonism and guilt tripping. "You don't want to watch this trite shitty movie without a single fucking decent line, shot or sequence in the entire trailer? What are you? A bigot?!"
It's gonna be Ghostbitches all over again. Don't even act surprised when the marketing blitz will once more revolve around some token minority gimmick character farting around in the background of the movie and we'll hear how STUNNING® and BRAVE® the movie is going to be to feature for the """"first"""" time said minority at all.

We've reached a point where the most surprising thing about Star Trek has become that they won't just use Picard being a robot (bet you forgot that, din'cha?) as a pretense to put his mind into a new body every couple seasons, like he was Dr. Who.
Admittedly, Patrick Stewart hasn't keeled over yet, so I would not be surprised if that was the impetus to replace normal Picard with some dangerhair muslim troon and claim it's the same character.

"Sir, I was wondering if we were ever going to check up on Khan and his followers?"
"Who and his whatnow?"
*faint sound of an Orion girl giggling coming from the Captain's stateroom*
"Now if you'll excuse me, I'll have to ... entertain ... the Orion delegation."
 
If these cunts actually knew ANYTHING about what the fans want it's that we want something far more akin to the old Trek. None of this gritty grim shit that they've been pushing. We want to see mankind at our best, especially after recent years when we've seen ourselves at our worst. We want hope for the future, not despair. And that's all they're giving us.

Now if you let ME make a Trek show? I'd set it 20-30 years after the Dominion war. Try to cover some of the shit that's happened since then like the rehabilitation of the Vorta and Jem'Hadar. I'd completely ignore the idea of Romulus being destroyed because for fucks sake we have the technology to figure out that a star is about to go supernova and I doubt the Romulans aren't monitoring their own fucking sun. I would try to assemble a cast of fairly diverse characters like DS9 had because we really don't see as many aliens on federation starships as we should. TNG had worf. That's basically it for actual aliens. Deanna Troi doesn't fucking count.
I'd try to show a fairly positive view of things. Like in the aftermath of the Dominion War the Romulans have become a staunch ally of the federation, and the Klingons are looking ready to join outright.
I would indeed try to do a few cameos of actors who are still alive, and offer some explanation as to why we never see those who have died. For instance Odo, he can't come back because Rene Auberjonois died. How do we explain that? Well the Changelings, even under Odo's guidance, just don't feel ready to rejoin the galaxy. They believe it would be best to wait until it's been long enough that the Dominion is a distant memory. Doesn't stop us from potentially having a changeling tho since there are still The One Hundred.
Quark can make an appearance. Maybe we find out he sold his bar and now owns his own orbital casino and resort. Rom is Nagus so we can also definitely see him on occasion. Perhaps Garak has managed to gain some sort of high ranking office in the new Cardassian government. We can even have an episode where we see old Ben Sisko, having returned from his time with the Prophets and returned to settle down on Bajor as a sort of spiritual leader. Maybe Cassidy Yates waited for him and he got his happily ever after after all. Maybe we see Jake. Maybe we see Dax and Julian. Maybe we see Worf and Martok. We could see Janeway, Harry Kim, Tom Paris, who the fuck ever.

One of the biggest problems I'm seeing with the new Trek is that it's a lot less episodic. There's this insistence that everything must be part of some overarching plot, like the Romulan-Synth shit. Star Trek is always at it's best when you free yourself up to do whatever the fuck you want, and sticking to a set story for an entire season with no room to breathe is the best way to fuck up Trek.
 
If these cunts actually knew ANYTHING about what the fans want it's that we want something far more akin to the old Trek. None of this gritty grim shit that they've been pushing. We want to see mankind at our best, especially after recent years when we've seen ourselves at our worst. We want hope for the future, not despair. And that's all they're giving us.
Futuristic escapism that doesn't make you want to rinse your mouth with 00 buckshot? Quite a concept.

Now, I enjoy gritty Sci-Fi like Alien or The Expanse as much as the next guy, but Star Trek should, at its core, try to inspire and encourage us to be the best we can, to strife to do the best we can and to built something great and magnificent together.
Star Trek would be the perfect backdrop for current political hot-button-topics like climate change and diversity, if it was done right. It would be preachy, but at least it would be emphasizing why it's positive to attempt to change for the better, instead of beating us over the head about how terrible everything is if we don't. Why do I need to watch a bunch of assholes dropping f-bombs in a shipyard on Mars like they were in a ghetto in Detroit? Why does everything have to be so bleak and unappealing? Why does everyone have to be an asshole to everyone else?

Hollywood has a weird fetish for showing whatever they don't like in the most stupidly and childishly negative way and trying to beat into the audience some sort of negative reinforcement. Rather than having a positive message for us to be better, they have a negative one warning us not vote Trump or whatever.

I want Starfleet to be a place that accepts everyone, that allows everyone to grow and thrive. Why not highlight that point? It boggles the mind.

If you want to have a gritty show, just make it on the fringes of Starfleet space, where people need to be a bit more roguish to survive. How about setting it in an earlier time, before Starfleet could really force-project enough to prevent scummy people from doing scummy things. TOS is full of weird places settled by humans who just do their own thing independent of Federation rules or Starfleet meddling. That would be the perfect place to have something very akin to Firefly.
Star Trek can be gritty, but only in small doses and for good reason. The setting should never devolve to the shitfest that is STP, cause it invalidates the core aspects of the humanist message of the setting and what Starfleet and the Federation should be about. You can tell STP just did it for its own, fart-huffing sake, there is no complex message beneath it, it's navelgazing and preachy on a really shallow level.

And now we get yet another shitty movie that'll try to forcefeed us muslim tranny lesbo-dicks or whatever shitty minority-of-the-week Hollywood decides to push.

One of the biggest problems I'm seeing with the new Trek is that it's a lot less episodic. There's this insistence that everything must be part of some overarching plot, like the Romulan-Synth shit. Star Trek is always at it's best when you free yourself up to do whatever the fuck you want, and sticking to a set story for an entire season with no room to breathe is the best way to fuck up Trek.

That, in itself, isn't that much of a big deal to me. Overarching plots allow for more character growth, more intricate storylines and slow burns that pick up speed over time. Again, The Expanse did this in a great way.

Purely episodic shows have the advantage of being able to just pick up at a random episode, but many things feel a lot more static.

Ghost in the Shell: Standalone Complex did it best imho. The show is seperated into "standalone" episodes with a storyline contained in the episode and "complex" episodes, that drive forward the overarching plot about the Laughing Man. The "standalone" episodes never feel like filler, since they still serve the point of fleshing out characters and the setting and they never feel like they grind the plot to a halt, they just feel like something that happens in between the overarching story progressing.
Meanwhile, the "complex" episodes were their own self-contained chunk of the storyline, so they could be enjoyed on their own, but in order to really understand what was going on, you at least needed some basic knowledge of the overarching plot and what was going on there.

Star Trek would do well to adopt that system. Have half a season worth of an overarching storyline, use the other half to flesh out characters, setting and give some self-contained episodes for the audience to just tune out to every once in a while.
 
Here's a thought. By allowing the Ocampa to stay "protected" from the outside worlds, not only did Janeway condemn her own crew to die, but she also allowed a genetically dead end species- (The Ocampa live to be at most 10 years old, and that is still above average. In those 10 years, Ocampa females are only able to reproduce once if at all, and that is still incredibly complicated, in ways that make no sense for the survival of a species. Even if they do successfully reproduce, they only bear one child and can never reproduce again. Ensuring that even under optimal conditions, the Ocampa will at best lose 50% of their population every generation.)

Sorry, that was overly complicated but, the Ocampa as a species would have literally been better off overall if Janeway hadn't even bothered trying to save them and had just used the caretaker's array to go back to the Alpha Quadrant- forcing them to meet, and presumably breed with other races (like the Kazon, for example). They're clearly capable of doing so, there was even a "what if" episode where Tom Paris and Kes had a daughter, and that daughter was fucking Harry Kim, despite being single digit years old. Disgusting, I agree, but if the Ocampa can reproduce with a species from the other side of the galaxy, then they can presumably reproduce with other species in their same quadrant, and they probably should... Because their species is going to die out if they don't.
 
Back
Top Bottom