Star Wars Griefing Thread (SPOILERS) - Safety off

[LORD IMPERATOR]

NJO was absolute kino with the exception of Anakin's death, and the timeline should have ended there with a long jump to the Legacy comics afterwards.

NJO had a great concept, but its execution was......lacking. As in, the good guys had to lose brain cells so that the Vong could become a threat. If a weakened remnant of the New Republic and a small, pathetic remnant of the Empire could beat them, then the New Republic at the height of its power, if it gathered all its strength, would've crushed the Vong, or at least stalemated them at the Mid-Rim the way the Old Republic did with the Sith Empire during the Great Galactic War.

 

[AnsemSoD1]

NJO had a great concept, but its execution was......lacking. As in, the good guys had to lose brain cells so that the Vong could become a threat. If a weakened remnant of the New Republic and a small, pathetic remnant of the Empire could beat them, then the New Republic at the height of its power, if it gathered all its strength, would've crushed the Vong, or at least stalemated them at the Mid-Rim the way the Old Republic did with the Sith Empire during the Great Galactic War.

The Imperial Remnant with Pelleaon at the helm was the most useful and kino part of the post ROTJ galaxy

 

[LORD IMPERATOR]

The Imperial Remnant with Pelleaon at the helm was the most useful and kino part of the post ROTJ galaxy

Which makes everything the heroes did against the Empire look stupid at the end, when what's left of the Empire is the most stable part of the galaxy after ROTJ. Pellaeon says as much the moment the Second Galactic Civil War breaks out.

That should not be the case. The heroes' established government, the New Republic, should represent the best of both the Old Republic and the Empire, since it had people from both. You had turncoat Imperial officers and officials from the Old Republic running it, and they saw for themselves the strengths and weaknesses of both the Old Republic and the Empire. You'd think they'd take a good, long look at both systems, take what worked, leave out what didn't, and make something that'd be the best of both worlds. That is not what happened. Instead, the NR becomes a laughingstock, and the Empire, the faction that the heroes have been chipping away at for over 20 years, (NJO came out in 1999, the first SW movie came out in 1977) winds up becoming the shield of the galaxy. That kind of makes everything the heroes did look bad in hindsight.

If anything, Tarkin and Palpatine would be laughing from beyond the grave, given that the political system they established and fought for was vindicated down the line as the only thing that can possibly run an effective government. And the people who fought and killed them now rely upon the system they established to save the galaxy.

 

[Screamer_2]

One would hope they had learned

Do you prefer round lightsaber tips in the OT or the sharper tips in the PT?

You mean the dildo tips.

 

[Rick The Stick]

Honestly I like both, since it's just something I envision is personal taste on how you focus the beam while in your trance to make the blade meant for you. I also really liked the curved blade of plasma Yan Dooku had; it's a bit silly but it just works for him. Especially since Christopher Lee was familiar with that one's style of use.

Dooku had a curved hilt, the blade was still straight.

 

[AbduluCthuluZulu]

I'd probably hate that too, but that's mostly because I find Maul to be hideously overrated due to character design. Like moreso than Boba Fett which is saying a lot. I tend to not be wowed solely by looks or flash, so it'd have to win me with the story... which given how manichaean George got near the end with villains and this being essentially a crime lord story and it being long after his prime? Not seeing it.

George's sequel plan would've also messed up Luke's story. It was going to have him do a complete 180 from his trajectory in the OT and have him adopt the strict prequel-era jedi rules, meaning there just straight up ARE no other Jedi in the entire trilogy because Luke isn't allowed to train or ally with force sensitives that aren't 2 or younger. I'm pretty sure he doesn't even consider training Leia in this timeline. And the kicker? Luke dies in the end, before his first generation of students are anywhere close to ready to carry on in his stead. Great ending, George, this will totally show the prequel haters!

[This also proved to me that Lucas intended the Prequels' Jedi to be a full retcon of the OT's depiction of them, rather than the beliefs changing with the times like how most people interpreted it. I could go on a whole rant about the implications of this change and how it completely ruins the ending of ROTJ, but I don't have time right now.]

 

[draggs]

NJO had a great concept, but its execution was......lacking. As in, the good guys had to lose brain cells so that the Vong could become a threat. If a weakened remnant of the New Republic and a small, pathetic remnant of the Empire could beat them, then the New Republic at the height of its power, if it gathered all its strength, would've crushed the Vong, or at least stalemated them at the Mid-Rim the way the Old Republic did with the Sith Empire during the Great Galactic War.

They totally subvert Han telling the lady Imperial that there's no way Palpy could have beaten the Vong by later saying that a fully mobilized galactic war economy would have produced too much military power for the Vong to handle

idk why you're saying the execution was lacking when the Senate being retarded and impairing the NR's standing military strength and readiness, military production, etc., was a plot point in like half the EU novels. What happened with the NR being totally unprepared because the Senate was retarded was exactly what you'd expect from the EU NR. They also say the campaign up to and including the conquering of Coruscant destroyed 1/3 of the Vong's military strength, then they lost a bunch more at Borleias and Ebaq 9. So the NR did do very significant damage to the Vong despite being handicapped by the retardation of the Senate

'This new enemy invades but they are crushed immediately or only get to the Mid-Rim, they aren't a true and honest mortal threat to the galaxy' wouldn't have been a very exciting premise for a 25 book series

 

[LORD IMPERATOR]

idk why you're saying the execution was lacking when the Senate being retarded and impairing the NR's standing military strength and readiness, military production, etc., was a plot point in like half the EU novels. What happened with the NR being totally unprepared because the Senate was retarded was exactly what you'd expect from the EU NR. They also say the campaign up to and including the conquering of Coruscant destroyed 1/3 of the Vong's military strength, then they lost a bunch more at Borleias and Ebaq 9. So the NR did do very significant damage to the Vong despite being handicapped by the retardation of the Senate

That kind of makes everything the Rebels did to be utterly pointless. The whole point of the Alliance was to depose the Emperor and bring the Senate back to power. Then the SWEU novels put in the idea that the Senate is a problem, and that idea blossoms into full retardation in NJO when the Vong become a bigger problem than they should've been because of the Senate.

If the NR military can do significant damage against the Vong DESPITE the Senate handicapping them, imagine what a fully-cooperative Senate would've done. At least during the Old Republic era, the Senate knows to keep the political bullshit to a minimum when the Sith are knocking at their doorstep.

If this is the fruit of Galactic Democracy, then fuck it, let Palpatine stomp their necks with his boot for all I care.

This new enemy invades but they are crushed immediately or only get to the Mid-Rim, they aren't a true and honest mortal threat to the galaxy' wouldn't have been a very exciting premise for a 25 book series

SWTOR showed otherwise. The Sith never fully took the core worlds from the Republic, yet the Sith Empire was popular as fuck among the players, and people still remember the SWTOR era to this day. Meanwhile, the only people who give a shit about the Vong are the book readers, and half the book readers fucking hate them and think Disney retconning them out of the canon was OK.

 

[Rome's rightful successor]

He lost by a fluke on Mustafar

He lost by underestimating Obi-Wan's high ground.

 

[draggs]

SWTOR showed otherwise. The Sith never fully took the core worlds from the Republic, yet the Sith Empire was popular as fuck among the players, and people still remember the SWTOR era to this day. Meanwhile, the only people who give a shit about the Vong are the book readers, and half the book readers fucking hate them and think Disney retconning them out of the canon was OK.

Both SWTOR and NJO made good profit for Lucasfilm. Book readers are a significant part of the fandom, and from what I've seen online half the book readers hating NJO is a wild exaggeration. Plus every single NJO book made the NYT bestseller list, at the time the readers didn't hate them at the least. Some of the books are definitely bad though, and the overall slog of it was why I stopped reading new SW books. Never read any of the post-NJO EU books. Comparing a video game to books in a popularity contest to say one was good and the other was bad is kinda silly imo, especially when the books weren't unpopular. SWTOR currently has like 5,000 players a day, I bet there are more than 5,000 people reading an NJO book on a given day. But that doesn't mean SWTOR sucks NJO great

That kind of makes everything the Rebels did to be utterly pointless. The whole point of the Alliance was to depose the Emperor and bring the Senate back to power. Then the SWEU novels put in the idea that the Senate is a problem, and that idea blossoms into full retardation in NJO when the Vong become a bigger problem than they should've been because of the Senate.

If the NR military can do significant damage against the Vong DESPITE the Senate handicapping them, imagine what a fully-cooperative Senate would've done. At least during the Old Republic era, the Senate knows to keep the political bullshit to a minimum when the Sith are knocking at their doorstep.

If this is the fruit of Galactic Democracy, then fuck it, let Palpatine stomp their necks with his boot for all I care.

I don't think that the New Republic eventually winning a war that it could have fought better at the beginning means the Rebellion was pointless. Or that its internal political problems did either. Murderous cult government as the alternative isn't too appealing, although the Empire definitely would have beat the Vong faster and all Rebel scum should die

 

[LORD IMPERATOR]

Both SWTOR and NJO made good profit for Lucasfilm. Book readers are a significant part of the fandom, and from what I've seen online half the book readers hating NJO is a wild exaggeration. Plus every single NJO book made the NYT bestseller list, at the time the readers didn't hate them at the least. Some of the books are definitely bad though, and the overall slog of it was why I stopped reading new SW books. Never read any of the post-NJO EU books. Comparing a video game to books in a popularity contest to say one was good and the other was bad is kinda silly imo, especially when the books weren't unpopular. SWTOR currently has like 5,000 players a day, I bet there are more than 5,000 people reading an NJO book on a given day. But that doesn't mean SWTOR sucks NJO great

Not what I'm seeing. The fans obviously bought the books just to see what happens next, but most book readers were so turned off by what they did read from NJO, to the point where they agreed with Disney wiping out the canon. Whereas the SWTOR players, as bloated as that game's story got, were actually mad that Disney wiped out their lore. There's the reaction. Most of the dialogue among the book readers regarding NJO was that it was when the SWEU jumped the shark and never came back, hence why they were OK with the canon wipe.

Also, thinking that there's more than 5000 people today reading the NJO books is kind of a stretch. Most fans have forgotten the Vong and moved on. Even most Legends fans focus more on things like the Old Republic shit.

I don't think that the New Republic eventually winning a war that it could have fought better at the beginning means the Rebellion was pointless. Or that its internal political problems did either. Murderous cult government as the alternative isn't too appealing, although the Empire definitely would have beat the Vong faster and all Rebel scum should die

Stand in the ashes of 365 trillion dead souls and ask them if democracy, the Senate, or the Republic matters. The silence is your answer. Those are 365 trillion souls who would've still lived if the Sith ruled the galaxy.

 

[The Hungry African]

SWTOR showed otherwise. The Sith never fully took the core worlds from the Republic, yet the Sith Empire was popular as fuck among the players, and people still remember the SWTOR era to this day. Meanwhile, the only people who give a shit about the Vong are the book readers, and half the book readers fucking hate them and think Disney retconning them out of the canon was OK.

The Sith Empire in SWTOR is actually interesting with how deep it got into the actual Sith politics. It wasn't just generic bad guys for the Jedi to defeat like in other SW media. You had insane megalomaniacs like Vitiate, manipulative politicians like Baras and Thanaton and devote patriots like Marr. The Vong like Abeloth just feel like another overpowered villian for the EU God Luke to defeat.

 

[LORD IMPERATOR]

The Sith Empire in SWTOR is actually interesting with how deep it got into the actual Sith politics. It wasn't just generic bad guys for the Jedi to defeat like in other SW media. You had insane megalomaniacs like Vitiate, manipulative politicians like Baras and Thanaton and devote patriots like Marr. The Vong like Abeloth just feel like another overpowered villain for the EU God Luke to defeat.

That, and the culture/aesthetics of the Sith Empire was also more iconic. Also, I'd take the Sith Empire's Silencer and Gauntlet superweapons over the Vong biotech any day. Making entire fleets disappear in one shot, or shooting down ships in hyperspace is quite a flex. Not even the Death Star can do that.

 

[LovisXVI]

The Vong like Abeloth just feel like another overpowered villian for the EU God Luke to defeat.

NJO had the problem that a lot of 00's cRPGs had for post release expansions, where it was expected you had already completed the game, so they seriously overtuned the enemies there to try to keep up with stats. Morrowind's two expansions, Tribunal and Bloodmoon are infamous for this.

 

[LORD IMPERATOR]

NJO had the problem that a lot of 00's cRPGs had for post release expansions, where it was expected you had already completed the game, so they seriously overtuned the enemies there to try to keep up with stats. Morrowind's two expansions, Tribunal and Bloodmoon are infamous for this.

Reminds me of cutting down those ugly-ass Falmer and their disgusting bug pets by the dozens in Skyrim's Dawnguard DLC on the highest difficulty. Shit, they even look like the Vong to a certain extent. You can even cosplay as Luke Skywalker cutting down the Vong if your Dragonborn is a blonde, clean-shaven male wielding Dawnbreaker.

But it could've been done well with NJO, especially since past SW lore makes the Vong extremely susceptible to high-level Force powers. We know Force Lightning can affect them, so imagine a Jedi weakening an entire Vong fleet with Battle Meditation, especially since they use biotechnology. Or imagine a Dark Jedi mercenary working for the Empire using a Sith technique gleamed from the tomb of Naga Sadow to blow up a whole star system and take an entire Vong armada with it.

To make the series worthy of the title of "New Jedi Order", I would have made it so that Jedi powers turn the tide of the war. Have it so that the Vong can't be beaten with conventional technology, but rather, the true power of the Force is what beats them, showing the galaxy the necessity of the Jedi. And I'm not just talking about the basic bitch Jedi lightsaber and Force powers, but the more esoteric powers like creating armies of illusions to fool the Vong, or creating a Force Storm that devours a Vong worldship in one gulp. Hey, Luke was Palpatine's apprentice for a time during the Dark Empire saga; that'd be a good way to explain how he knows Force Storm. Luke and Leia even redirected Palpatine's Force Storm in that saga, so they've shown that they know how to control such massive power.

Basically, it'd be one half Warhammer 40K, one half Book of Exodus, with lightsabers and Star Destroyers.

 

[Mr. Racewar1488]

This is still more canon than anything Disney has made.

 

[Rick The Stick]

Apparently Saber, the people who did Space Marine 2, are now handling the KOTOR remake.

1. Still doubtful that ever goes anywhere

2. Even if it does, I have zero faith in Saber to do it well

That's all I've got without sperging about Space Marine 2 and the usual "remakes are fake and gay".

 

[Gondolindrim]

The Sith Empire in SWTOR is actually interesting with how deep it got into the actual Sith politics. It wasn't just generic bad guys for the Jedi to defeat like in other SW media. You had insane megalomaniacs like Vitiate, manipulative politicians like Baras and Thanaton and devote patriots like Marr. The Vong like Abeloth just feel like another overpowered villian for the EU God Luke to defeat.

I actually really like SWTOR. My favorite thing about the Sith Empire is their self awareness. The Sith are naturally bloodthirsty retards who will happily shoot themselves in the foot just for a second of satisfaction. So the only way their civillization can work is with a rigid caste system and punishment for any Sith who gives into their base desires of widespread murder and mayhem. But you also know that they're doomed in the long run because even if they destroy the republic, they'll just descend into infighting like they always do.

 

[Rome's rightful successor]

 

[Mr. Racewar1488]

The only hole in the prequels I want to fill is Ayla Secura's.

AYYYOOOO!!!!!