Star Wars Griefing Thread (SPOILERS) - Safety off

If the chip was a "back-up" just in case the conditioning failed, then I kind of understand it. But I still think it'd have been cooler if they were just a Manchurian Candidate style army whose conditioning and loyalty to the republic makes sure they'll follow through any order.

Plus, you could have like a small Clone War, where some of them either resisted or followed Order 65 in the last gasp of opposing Senate. That would've been great.
 
If the chip was a "back-up" just in case the conditioning failed, then I kind of understand it. But I still think it'd have been cooler if they were just a Manchurian Candidate style army whose conditioning and loyalty to the republic makes sure they'll follow through any order.

Plus, you could have like a small Clone War, where some of them either resisted or followed Order 65 in the last gasp of opposing Senate. That would've been great.
Hence an interesting scenario of an actual Clone War of Clones vs Clones akin to what many people, including old writers and old Lucas, believed before the prequels came around based on Kenobi's and other media's descriptions.

The chip or the brainwashing at least makes sense as for why the clones prioritize killing the jedi as soon as they get Order 66. In ROTS, Ki-Adi-Mundi and Aayla Secura get gunned down even though the Separatists are within shooting distance. Not to mention that when the clones receive their orders, Palpatine looks different and sounds different.

The best way to get the clones to kill the jedi would be a preprogrammed signal that was with them from the very start.
True enough, but then again, when you're now dealing with another enemy faction on the field (ie the jedis) alongside the droids, one could assume it would be for the best to take down the jedi first since they're more powerful and the droids would be gunning for them too, thus making it easier to kill them and then go for the droids later. Either that or one could see this as clones knowing about the Orders but that the chips were merely a backup in case some resisted the order by detecting hesitation or something, and the very few that did resist and saved their jedi generals could have had defective chips. But the episodes that actually discussed the chip made it seem more like it turned troopers into mindless zombies which just negates a lot of engaging inner narrative.
 
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Makes you wonder what the script for the show was like before Disney took over and had Filoni rewrite the script.

I think it's safe to say there's nothing the same except the character name.

Word was they completely threw out George's scripts/suggested plots for the trilogy, they HAD no script for them, and it showed, it was a big bunch of "What old nostalgic character can we dig up next to praise our superior OC before they die, so they don't become competition to her in the next episode?"

So, I wouldn't be surprised that though they may be learning not to write such shitty scripts, I doubt they asked him for input.
 
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Hence an interesting scenario of an actual Clone War of Clones vs Clones akin to what many people, including old writers and old Lucas, believed before the prequels came around based on Kenobi's and other media's descriptions.


True enough, but then again, when you're now dealing with another enemy faction on the field (ie the jedis) alongside the droids, one could assume it would be for the best to take down the jedi first since they're more powerful and the droids would be gunning for them too.
I would genuinely love more what if stuff from Star Wars, like wasn't there an comic adaption based on George Lucas original Rough Draft of Star Wars?
Word was they completely threw out George's scripts/suggested plots, they HAD no script for this one, and it showed, it was a big bunch of "What old nostalgic character can we dig up next to praise our superior OC before they die, so they don't become competition to her in the next episode?"
It seems George Lucas, at least according to the media really likes the Siege of Mandalore, but remember just because George Lucas praises it and likes it doesn't mean he sees it as his Star Wars. He was very adamant to Dave that Ahsoka should be dead at order 66.
 
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I would genuinely love more what if stuff from Star Wars, like wasn't there an comic adaption based on George Lucas original Rough Draft of Star Wars?
Yeah, there was. Its the original version starring Starkiller with lots of homages to Ralph MacQuarrie and unused ideas. Its been a long time since I've read it though but here's the link starting with the bonus Issue 0:
There was also a lot of "What if Stories" in the Infinities line of comics, such as one where they're unable to destroy the Death Star, one where Luke falls to the Dark Side, etc etc.
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The cancelled Battlefront III was also supposedly going to have an AU mission involving a fight with a Kenobi who fell to the Dark Side.
 
Yeah, there was. Its the original version starring Starkiller with lots of homages to Ralph MacQuarrie and unused ideas. Its been a long time since I've read it though but here's the link starting with the bonus Issue 0:
There was also a lot of "What if Stories" in the Infinities line of comics, such as one where they're unable to destroy the Death Star, one where Luke falls to the Dark Side, etc etc.
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The cancelled Battlefront III was also supposedly going to have an AU mission involving a Kenobi who fell to the Dark Side.
I remember when the leaked concept art from Battlefront VI came out, and we had a lot of what if, and different variants from beloved characters, it made me really pissed off both games were cancelled Battlefront III was even almost finished but got the axe.
 
In real life normal people trained to become solders often do switch from easy going, to determined killers when ordered, The Clones were trained from birth to be soldiers, regardless how you slice it that was a fucking asspull.

Karen Traviss wrote several tie in books to Filoni Wars, this is such a shame. I think this was a Lucas Recton similar to the Han shot first debacle, not wanting people to view the Clones as bad guys in his show.
I'm not really following your line of thought here. Was the asspull the chips or the conditioning to follow orders without hesitation or question? 🤔

Again, not that I disagree, but boy does that all sound more exciting than a "trade dispute" to hang the first movie on. To quote Jeff Goldblum: "Are there going to be any wars, in this star wars of yours?"
*shrug*

I think you're exaggerating the situation. TPM featured a small, regional war, AOTC ended with a larger war erupting, and ROTS had a galaxy-spanning dust-up with more ships, soldiers and battles onscreen than all of the previous films put together. Lucas seemingly wanted to show us the Stars before the Wars and before the Empire, though, and arguably just went a little bit too far with idyllic Naboo and innocent, pre-adolescent Anakin.

I honestly can't be sure your level of seriousness to determine my laughter routine.


Let me put it another way using a different plot point:
"We must train Anakin because a prophecy says so." Isn't tragic or hubris - it's plot railroading the characters.
"We must train Anakin because he's so naturally talented he's teaching himself some force tricks on his own and could be very dangerous and our way is the only way." THAT's getting closer to it.
I don't see that as a particularly useful comparison. The Prequel Jedi are so deaf to the Will of the Living Force and so fixated on their bureaucratic position as Republic law-enforcement that when the nascent "Confederacy of Independent Systems" begins its attempt to violently secede from the Republic, the Jedi, through a mixture of hubris and desperation, mount an "Attack of the Clones" in response to the vast military forces that the Separatists have gathered, rather than questioning whether A: the conflict is a just one to become involved with in the first place, and B: whether this mysterious clone army is entirely trustworthy (answer: they are, but they're trained/indoctrinated to obey the 150 special contingency orders without hesitation)

To get pathos, tragedy, hubris, etc you need to have the characters be able to choose a path to salvation, but unable to do so because of dogma, characters flaws, etc - something that could be overcome, but we know wouldn't.
Which is, again, basically the whole story of the Jedi getting sucked into the Clone Wars.

. Really episode 2 should have been about Obi-Wan investigating Sifo and Dooku missing shouldn't it? It is hilarious to think that if Nute Gunroy never demanded Padme to be killed, then Jango wouldn't have gone and left behind a clue to the planet with the ready-made military and Palpatine would have never gotten his war...
Considering that just about every major move Gunray makes in TPM is stage-managed by Palpatine, it's safe to conclude that so were the assassination attempts on Padme (especially considering, as you observed, that they left behind a trail of breadcrumbs that led directly to Kamino).

Not on screen, just in all the patchworking other writers had to do to get Lucas' vision to actually work.
No, it's there, you just have to pay attention.

Just take a minute a think about the original alias. It was going to be "Sido-Dyas." It's literally Darth "Sidious" pronounced with a thick accent. Replacing 1 letter led to a whole new character being created.
C'mon! I thought this was a board dedicated to savoring autism. That's some top quality there.
It's actually representative of one element of the Prequels that I genuinely hate: the tendency to lean more and more on (really, really weak) anagrams of real people or other things for character names (ex: Pablo Jill, Coleman Trebor, Elan Sleazebaggano FFS!)

(It also, again, means the entire prequels have to run on prophecy - which is weak-ass shit.)
De gustibus non est disputandum.

The cancelled Battlefront III was also supposedly going to have an AU mission involving a fight with a Kenobi who fell to the Dark Side.
Not just Obi-Wan, seemingly, or rather, the devs plans for AU content didn't end with him. There's game concept art for alignment-swapped versions of most of the main characters.

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Also were possibly getting more Filoni Wars episodes.
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Hope this isn't a shallow tease, and we are actually getting more episodes. Just please no more shit in the line of the Martez sisters.
Not just Obi-Wan, seemingly, or rather, the devs plans for AU content didn't end with him. There's game concept art for alignment-swapped versions of most of the main characters.
Light side Maul looks cursed.
 
I'm not really following your line of thought here. Was the asspull the chips or the conditioning to follow orders without hesitation or question?
I think the Asspull was the chip, The clones have been heavily conditioned to follow orders and be loyal to the republic and Filoni Wars still depicts the Kaminoans being cold as fuck. It also suggest the clones have no choice, therefore completely faultless which was just a cop out to me that Filoni's clones can't do no wrong.
Hope this isn't a shallow tease, and we are actually getting more episodes. Just please no more shit in the line of the Martez sisters.
Considering the production time to produce episodes, we have to wait at least a year or two for anything to come out of it, unless they we're working on more episodes prior, and the "Final season" advertisement was just a marketing ploy.
 
Another Disney Star Wars character without a brain, go figure. Seriously, why are there so many goddamn brainless aliens (and people) in Disney Star Wars?
I didn't even realize zhe probably lacks a brain until you pointed it out. Brainless freaks everywhere in Disney Wars these days, now with awkward places to set up a holo-communicator. Must be awkward as fuck trying to make calls without someone around.
 
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I'll reply to @Cyril Sneer later so those who don't care about our autistic nerd slapping can skip the post.
I just hope it's someone like Greg Weisman and not one of those diversity hires at Lucasfilm.

Unfortunately from what I've heard about Young Justice s3 and the War of the Spark novels he did, I don't think Greg Weisman is the savior you hope for (and trust me, I used to be a fan of his too - so I feel your pain).

But the episodes that actually discussed the chip made it seem more like it turned troopers into mindless zombies.

It will take me time to find the citations, but once upon a time it was the lore that there were the mass line of troopers - who were cognitively little better than dogs or droids - and then (I think) Arc troopers or commanders who were slightly more independent and functional.

They could have embraced both solutions, having the lower-order troops be just conditioned to attack, and the higher-order troops be the ones with chips since they were allowed more free will.
 
I'll reply to @Cyril Sneer later so those who don't care about our autistic nerd slapping can skip the post.
LOL

Unfortunately from what I've heard about Young Justice s3 and the War of the Spark novels he did, I don't think Greg Weisman is the savior you hope for (and trust me, I used to be a fan of his too - so I feel your pain).
Well, he started Young Justice with "Blaqualad" on the team, which was kind of a red flag from the beginning (IIRC, he also made the Gargoyles character Lexington gay in the spinoff comic and then mocked fans who complained about it). Weissman also wrote a couple of episodes for (and apparently describes himself as a huge fan of) Disney's Kim Possible cartoon, which was basically the "omnicompetent female, doofus male" dynamic from Sequel Wars in animated long form.

It will take me time to find the citations, but once upon a time it was the lore that there were the mass line of troopers - who were cognitively little better than dogs or droids - and then (I think) Arc troopers or commanders who were slightly more independent and functional.
If that's true, I would guess that they changed it because it doesn't mesh particularly well with the Clone Troopers as seen in the films, where they don't really show any signs of lower-than-human cognitive function. Granted, most of the interaction we see is between the named Commanders like Cody in ROTS and the Jedi characters, but those guys are supposed to be ordinary line troopers whe received supplemental training from the ARCs (presumably because the latter would be too independent-minded to reliably pull the trigger when Order 66 was issued). They do have their own, apparently well-developed personalities, Gree being a bookish, inquisitive type with a passion for xenoarcheology, Bacara a cold, results-oriented killing machine constantly at odds with his Jedi commander, Cody a cheerful optimist sometimes subject to complaints that he thinks sunlight shines out of Obi-Wan Kenobi's ears.
 
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The film effects can be handled like Coruscant was in ROTS. Who's important at Endor? The Emperor/Luke, Admiral Ackbar, Lando, and maybe Wedge and Admiral Piett (INTENSIFY FORWARD FIREPOWER). At Coruscant the important people are Obi-Wan, Anakin, and General Grievous (in his flagship). The battle follows those important people the entire time and has a few shots which gives the illusion of a larger battle. And in ROTJ the important part of the Battle of Endor is Luke confronting Vader and the Emperor on the Death Star II. The Rebel fleet is there to help the Emperor show Luke how hopeless things are. IMO the narrative would be even better if we have some adjutant shout out to the Emperor how [Grand] Admiral whoever's fleet has jumped in to finish the encirclement.

It seems clear the Rebels were really counting on Endor. And I think you can justify them raising a sizable fleet, since look at the end of ESB, they clearly have a big fleet there. For all we know, they're throwing everything they have into this just for the chance to take out the Emperor, Vader, and the new superweapon.


Very well? It's all in three dimensions over tens of thousands of cubic kilometers of space, they line up and shoot and cycle in and out as needed. It would be two clouds of ships colliding. TIE Fighters too.

It wasn't a theory, it was a fact, as mentioned in the Thrawn Trilogy and later books. I think that's a bit of a cop-out to explain why the Emperor doesn't bother to bring more ships there and presumably is actively dissuading a bunch of admirals and moffs from doing the same. Yeah, Sheev can do as he pleases, but if you're like the admirals on the first Death Star, you have no idea what your boss is rambling about when he says how unlimited the Force is. And it still doesn't preclude the Empire from stashing a few hundred ships in each system nearby as a reserve.
Speculating on why Y character didn't do X based on EU material is an exercise in futility. Why didn't Sheeve just put some world devastators/imperial leviathans on Endor or those imperial blockade busters? Why build a death star instead of a sun crusher? Why were stormtroopers not all clones if Spaarti cylinders apparently worked so well ( or better yet a force sensitive army )? What was stopping the two most powerful Sith lords in existence from mind fucking Luke the same way C'baoth did? Why did Vader or Palps allow Ysalamiri to keep existing?
 
I'll reply to @Cyril Sneer later so those who don't care about our autistic nerd slapping can skip the post.
Unfortunately from what I've heard about Young Justice s3 and the War of the Spark novels he did, I don't think Greg Weisman is the savior you hope for (and trust me, I used to be a fan of his too - so I feel your pain).
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I haven't been reading the thread so forgive me if this has already been discussed, but who else has heard that the Star Wars hotel got defunded?

I just want to point out that despite people saying they'll definitely get back to the project because STUR WURS, the reason half of the Pop Century hotels (now the Art of Animation) remained abandoned for a decade was the post 9/11 tourism crash killed the project. This pandemic has the potential to affect tourism way worse because of the fear of large gatherings of people will result in less travel overall, especially to crowded as shit places like Disney World. (Yes, there's also people who want to go to Disney anyway, but they've been turned off by the likelihood that "their trips won't be fun" as the parks won't be back to normal and Disney will be enforcing strict social distancing procedures, including canceling parades and fireworks and only having virtual queues)

This is also the perfect excuse to kill off the project, since money will be tight and they know Star Wars hasn't returned on investment, even though Disney and Lucasfilm are blaming everything but how they handled the property. That hotel was the epitome of "Disney Wars is for nobody but bugmen obsessed with blind consumerism who have too much money".
 
I haven't been reading the thread so forgive me if this has already been discussed, but who else has heard that the Star Wars hotel got defunded?

I just want to point out that despite people saying they'll definitely get back to the project because STUR WURS, the reason half of the Pop Century hotels (now the Art of Animation) remained abandoned for a decade was the post 9/11 tourism crash killed the project. This pandemic has the potential to affect tourism way worse because of the fear of large gatherings of people will result in less travel overall, especially to crowded as shit places like Disney World. (Yes, there's also people who want to go to Disney anyway, but they've been turned off by the likelihood that "their trips won't be fun" as the parks won't be back to normal and Disney will be enforcing strict social distancing procedures, including canceling parades and fireworks and only having virtual queues)

This is also the perfect excuse to kill off the project, since money will be tight and they know Star Wars hasn't returned on investment, even though Disney and Lucasfilm are blaming everything but how they handled the property. That hotel was the epitome of "Disney Wars is for nobody but bugmen obsessed with blind consumerism who have too much money".
Spot on. Also from what I understand, they cut funding for the GE hotel and Galaxy's Edge "phase 2" is also dead in the water (among other things). Question is, are they just going to leave that unfinished husk of a hotel standing there to rot or will they actually do something with it or tear it down?

A lot of the usual sources I go to seem to be saying the same thing, GE and other things have been defunded. But online conversations just tend to mention this guy's list.
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Whatever happens, shit's fucked.
 
Question is, are they just going to leave that unfinished husk of a hotel standing there to rot or will they actually do something with it or tear it down?
They should leave it unfinished and turn it into an urban exploration/Five Nights at Freddy's kind of attraction. From what I understand, they've even got the malfunctioning animatronics handy already.
 
Question is, are they just going to leave that unfinished husk of a hotel standing there to rot or will they actually do something with it or tear it down?
Looking at all the other abandoned things at Disney World, realistically it'll be standing there empty for at least a decade before they do anything with it. Actually "Reflections Lakeside Lodge" mentioned in that post was what they were planning to build on the site of River Country, the poster child of all things abandoned by Disney World which has been sitting there like that for almost 20 years.
 
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