Starfield - Bethesda's new space IP: will probably be full of fun and easily trackable bugs

[HeyYou]

I don't mean the initial cutscenes, I mean the initial dungeons.
Oblivion and Skyrim had like 20 minutes of long gay intros mixed with somewhat long initial dungeons? Yeah.

Because that's the tutorial. Pretty much every 90s dungeon crawler did the same. Before Morrowind put more emphasis on the overworld as a result of shrinking down the game world, the dungeons were first and foremost.

 

[Local Degenerate]

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Playing a human instead of relying on "My personality is that I have rainbow skin and am half-catgirl half-dragonboy." is what's actually rare and unique these days. And so often writers just lazily make blue "aliens" that are human in every way except they're blue and people go "Wow! What amazing unique aliens!"

True, for every Volus, Vorcha, or Krogan theres a dozen Asari, to steal races from another setting as an example, but just because you'll inevitably fail doesn't mean you shouldn't try.

 

[Grand Wizard Wakka]

True, for every Volus, Vorcha, or Krogan theres a dozen Asari, to steal races from another setting as an example, but just because you'll inevitably fail doesn't mean you shouldn't try.

Making someone or something just have a dragon head but otherwise act just like a human doesn't automatically make something interesting or unique. Its about on-par with thinking just being gay is a personality. Or thinking the movie Dances With Wolves would be "interesting" if you just painted the Indians blue but its "boring" cause its "just a bunch of humans".

 

[SiccDicc]

True, for every Volus, Vorcha, or Krogan theres a dozen Asari, to steal races from another setting as an example, but just because you'll inevitably fail doesn't mean you shouldn't try.

I don't know if they fucked with the lore or if my memory is more retarded than usual, but I remember the Asari's appearance being a psychic projection of what they think that entity wants. Makes it easier for them to get the DNA they need from other species to reproduce their own. I can't remember what the theory was that they were supposed to actually look like because no Asari would ever admit to it if I remember right.

I think the fan theory was they were floating calamari.

 

[Smaug's Smokey Hole]

Cute. You white bigots are going to end up our slaves, though.....

No, if the opportunity ever came up where that might be a reality every black man in the world will start murdering each other to get hold of that rare white woman, globally blacks outnumber whites you know. At the same time black women will die from shriveled eggs and severe pussy neglect.

Like always, that black power fantasy is just another road to your demise.

 

[Mega Black]

Making someone or something just have a dragon head but otherwise act just like a human doesn't automatically make something interesting or unique. Its about on-par with thinking just being gay is a personality. Or thinking the movie Dances With Wolves would be "interesting" if you just painted the Indians blue but its "boring" cause its "just a bunch of humans".

So the argument basically boils down to 'other things fuck it up so don't even bother.' That doesn't seem very conducive to me. You're achieving the same result, of course we're working on the hope that a sci-fi game would make an effort to have those races be interesting, whether they fail or not at that is pure conjecture, and tossing your arms up and saying that humans-only is better by default doesn't sit with me for some reason.

I'm a little biased I guess, I like fantastical races, and Bethesda has proven that they do fantastical race politics better than most developers. I wouldn't want to play an Elder Scrolls game without all the racism, and I was excited to see how they might handled similar ideas with a sci-fi bend.

but I remember the Asari's appearance being a psychic projection of what they think that entity wants.

This is implied through a side conversation you can overhear at a bar in Mass Effect 2 and it's one of the more unintentionally brilliant pieces of soft worldbuilding the developers ever did for that franchise. Unfortunately, I think they said that wasn't true in an interview, but we might as well believe it is.

 

[SiccDicc]

I'm a little biased I guess, I like fantastical races, and Bethesda has proven that they do fantastical race politics better than most developers. I wouldn't want to play an Elder Scrolls game without all the racism, and I was excited to see how they might handled similar ideas with a sci-fi bend.

Except all the writers of that brilliant racism in Morrowind aren't there anymore and the "racism" you get from from Skyrim is predominantly from Nords so "white man bad" pretty much. Plus Todd's been pitching woo with the woke for a bit now talking about how they love diversity, increased hiring minorities and blah blah blah. Standard corporate fair, but given every other company actually followed through with it it's not looking too good.

This is implied through a side conversation you can overhear at a bar in Mass Effect 2 and it's one of the more unintentionally brilliant pieces of soft worldbuilding the developers ever did for that franchise. Unfortunately, I think they said that wasn't true in an interview, but we might as well believe it is.

I remember reading it in a codex in the first game, but eh. They retconned a fuckton of shit between 1 and 2 let alone the shit they pulled in 3.

 

[Mega Black]

Except all the writers of that brilliant racism in Morrowind aren't there anymore and the "racism" you get from from Skyrim is predominantly from Nords so "white man bad" pretty much.

Skyrim is more nuanced than the redditors would have you believe, actually. If you look into it and read between the lines, poke around in areas you aren't necessarily directed to, and you'll find that most of the racism is justified, and moving in with the context of Morrowind you'll see that the ostracizing of the Dark Elves reads more like entitlement on their part stemming from their general superiority complex, and the Nords judge them less for being filthy darkskins and more because they want all the benefits of living in Skyrim but won't take up arms with them to fight for the country's independence.

Plus Todd's been pitching woo with the woke for a bit now talking about how they love diversity, increased hiring minorities and blah blah blah. Standard corporate fair, but given every other company actually followed through with it it's not looking too good.

Hence why I'd prefer they at least throw in some flavor of fantastical racism rather than yet another bland boring soup of brownskinned people and lesbians. At least lizard racism can be kind of funny, and developers will usually let you play a huge racist if it's filtered through a nonexistent race. You won't be able to call anyone a filthy nigger in dialogue in Starfield, unfortunately.

Again, I'm not saying that alien races would inherently improve the game or anything, or that it'd even be likely handled well, just that it's personally boring to me. I miss getting to see cool aliens in my sci-fi games, you don't get that at all anymore, actual visual diversity sacrificed on the alter of inclusive human diversity is becoming increasingly common and I don't personally like it.

 

[SiccDicc]

Skyrim is more nuanced than the redditors would have you believe, actually. If you look into it and read between the lines, poke around in areas you aren't necessarily directed to, and you'll find that most of the racism is justified, and moving in with the context of Morrowind you'll see that the ostracizing of the Dark Elves reads more like entitlement on their part stemming from their general superiority complex, and the Nords judge them less for being filthy darkskins and more because they want all the benefits of living in Skyrim but won't take up arms with them to fight for the country's independence.

I don't remember much of that and I delved as much as I could into the game. I do remember the Thalmor seeing Ulfric as a useful pawn, but I don't remember there being much justification on the Nords' part.

Plus that shit was back in 2011 when you could actually be nuanced and shit.

 

[Tor Lugosi]

I'm fine with no aliens. The idea of playing in an early era of space exploration is a lot more appealing to me than something similar to Mass Effect.

 

[Stabmaster Arson]

You won't be able to call anyone a filthy nigger in dialogue in Starfield

If it's moddable you will.

 

[Grand Wizard Wakka]

saying that humans-only is better by default doesn't sit with me for some reason.

I wouldn't want to play an Elder Scrolls game without all the racism

Which is it? Do you want racism or not?

 

[Ser Prize]

Remember how optimistic people were for sci fi games over a decade ago? Could you imagine telling someone back in 2007 that 15 years from now every sci fi game will just be about collecting minerals and shooting at brown space pirates?

I still want my campy flash gordon style space RPG.

 

[Kane Lives]

I don't remember much of that and I delved as much as I could into the game. I do remember the Thalmor seeing Ulfric as a useful pawn, but I don't remember there being much justification on the Nords' part.

Plus that shit was back in 2011 when you could actually be nuanced and shit.

The poster you're replying to is reading a lot into the actual side conversations you get in and around Windhelm. While it is true some of the Dunmer are implied to be massive entitled pricks, it is merely implied. Meanwhile, there's a literal Nord character who goes around calling them niggers in their quarters, and a lot more expressing xenophobia without stating a cause aside from "muh Skyrim for Nords".

Subtle, Bethesda are not.

EDIT: To be fair, however, as you also said, this game shows its 2011 roots, in that while you're supposed to consider racism bad, racism in the reverse direction is also frowned upon.

 

[HeyYou]

The poster you're replying to is reading a lot into the actual side conversations you get in and around Windhelm. While it is true some of the Dunmer are implied to be massive entitled pricks, it is merely implied. Meanwhile, there's a literal Nord character who goes around calling them niggers in their quarters, and a lot more expressing xenophobia without stating a cause aside from "muh Skyrim for Nords".

There is no implication. The Dunmer who owns the bar harasses the Dunmer woman who works for Nords when she comes into his bar in one of the most blatant "I'm an asshole" speeches in the game, only under the Nord dude standing at the gates of Windhelm.

 

[PuffyGroundCloud]

If Todd said it’s going to be 1000 ships instead of planets, Star Citizen fans will huffing copium
And it’s more realistic tbh

 

[Kane Lives]

There is no implication. The Dunmer who owns the bar harasses the Dunmer woman who works for Nords when she comes into his bar in one of the most blatant "I'm an asshole" speeches in the game, only under the Nord dude standing at the gates of Windhelm.

I mean, here's the conversation (assuming we're talking about the same thing):

Ambarys: "Don't you ever find it demeaning, working for that Nord family?"
Suvaris: "Look, Ambarys, I just came here for a drink. I don't need any trouble."
Ambarys: "Fine, then. I guess some Dunmer are content to be their pets."
Suvaris: "Here's what's going to happen. I'm going to pretend I didn't hear that, and you're going to leave me alone. Deal?"

Ambarys: "What's new with the Cruel-Seas [sic] Suvaris? Have they given you one of those helmets with the horns on them yet?"
Suvaris: "What do you want from me? I work for them, okay? We're not friends. They pay me, and I get the job done. That's it."
Ambarys: "Touchy. Maybe some Dunmer lives in you yet."
Suvaris: "Either pour another drink or keep moving, Ambarys."

Given that they were purposefully herded into a slum by the Nords and then treated like second-class citizens, the Dunmer being salty that one of their own is working for them is quite understandable.

Hilariously though, there is a book which you can find penned by a Dunmer that's apparently a reply to some Nord screed that's just as racist.

Don't misunderstand, I do think there's more nuance in the game than the soyjacks in Reddit think there is. I just disagree it's deep or anything. Bethesda isn't known for subtle writing, and the implication you're to get from Windhelm isn't all that hard to grasp: muh racism against poor refugees bad. And most of the context you're given is that it is pretty unwarranted.

 

[bebopsingh]

Actually smug anime man makes a good point

Why the fuck do we not have fallouts combat limb damage and gore system

Well you see they think the dumb fuck COD fan base would complain about it and hate this sort of complex mechanic.

Just like when damage condition and repair was taken out of Skyrim and Fallout 4.

 

[Honka Honka Burning Love]

Hilariously though, there is a book which you can find penned by a Dunmer that's apparently a reply to some Nord screed that's just as racist.

Everyone in Skyrim is Racist and Evil as far as I am aware, it is one of the things that turned me against the game by the end.

 

[Mega Black]

Which is it? Do you want racism or not?

I want aliens to be racist to. The best part about being a white human male warrior is getting to kill freakshit on sight.

The poster you're replying to is reading a lot into the actual side conversations you get in and around Windhelm. While it is true some of the Dunmer are implied to be massive entitled pricks, it is merely implied. Meanwhile, there's a literal Nord character who goes around calling them niggers in their quarters, and a lot more expressing xenophobia without stating a cause aside from "muh Skyrim for Nords".

Subtle, Bethesda are not.

EDIT: To be fair, however, as you also said, this game shows its 2011 roots, in that while you're supposed to consider racism bad, racism in the reverse direction is also frowned upon.

In particular I look at the high elf merchant in Windhelm, who says that the Nords initially distrusted her but as she provides a valuable service is looked upon like any other citizen.

I remember there also being a farmer on the outskirts of the city who directly mentions that the Dunmer in Windhelm need to get with the program and stop bitching.

Given that they were purposefully herded into a slum by the Nords and then treated like second-class citizens, the Dunmer being salty that one of their own is working for them is quite understandable

Ulcric gave them an entire quarter and they feel entitled to more, but won't fight for the stormcloaks because 'it's not their fight.' They want all the benefits of being in Windhelm with none of the costs, everyone who offers something more than bellyaching in Windhelm is better off than them.

Bethesda isn't known for subtle writing

I'm not saying they do, it's just one of their better pieces of writing.