Steven Universe - Now a Griefing Thread

[Yamma Damma]

Let's completely drop this discussion and pretend it never happened.

You got it.
Here's a question: Do you think SU would've been better or worse if they didn't go the storyboard-driven path and had actual writers and artists be separate from each other? Cost-effectiveness aside, SU had a story and lore that was screaming to get out but fell on deaf ears because there were too many demands clogging up Becky's ears. You got people who wanted to advance the plot, people who wanted more filler/light-hearted stories, and people who just wanted their diversity high. In Becky's effort to please everyone, she forgot to please her target audience, the kids. And in the case of those video tapes left for Steven and Nora, devalued truly good moments. (good thing Steven wasn't a Nora, her video tape was a blooper reel compared to his.)

Yeah there’s nothing wrong with liking dark works but by that same token there’s nothing wrong with enjoying things that are lighter and inspirational. With SU, it’s comparable to Superman and Zack Snyder’s Man of Steel; you take an optimistic and idealistic franchise and make it more morose and dreary to make it seem deep and appeal “older audiences”.

Oh please man, SUFuture's dark themes is the equivelent of that banned Tiny Toons episode where they drank beer. It's out of place and unnecessary, yet here we are. (capeshit needs to die for a while anyhow.)

 

[Muttnik]

The newest episodes reeked of MUH TOXIC MASCULINITY REEEEEEEEEEE.

The one time Steven gets to actually be a badass and it's framed as something evil and destructive. I hate it.

 

[Private Pyle]

Well are officially in the end game. Come next week, one of the biggest cartoons of the 2010s ends and an era of animation officially comes to a close. I’m just wondering how they can pull it all off with only four episodes. Anyways, spoilers ahead...

-So I have egg on my face; I got the rumors wrong and Greg doesn’t end up in the hospital. But he did lose his van yet again, souring their interaction last episode. But we got more insight on Greg and his past life and some neat father son interaction while it lasted, so win some lose some.

-In a surprise twist, the first episode did have some pay off and Jasper returns to make good on that sparring match. More surprising is that a training montage complete with actual action and Steven looking pretty cool. Towards the end, Steven goes full diamond and shatters Jasper, causing him to revive with his tears and Diamond juice. Jasper thanks him by referring to him as her Diamond.

These episodes are getting pretty good; we have action, meaningful character interaction, stakes and legitimate twists. And yet...I can’t help feel a little miffed. After spending an entire series focusing on Steven wanting to live up to his mom’s legacy, feeling nervous about his mom’s legacy, doubting her legacy, becoming a better leader than her and ending with saying his mom is completely dead and there is only Steven...they threw it all away to have Steven become his mom. If Rose ends up alive or has something to the with the worm, I’m taking back every good thing I said about the show.

 

[SteelPlatedHeart]

I see Steven has reached full “angry rebellious teenager” mode.

The newest episodes reeked of MUH TOXIC MASCULINITY REEEEEEEEEEE.

The one time Steven gets to actually be a badass and it's framed as something evil and destructive. I hate it.

Only the

Spoiler

shattering and almost killing Jasper bit.

it’s fine he can be badass, he just needs to not go full roid rage.

 

[Nauseated Courgi]

Wow. Steven stepped on Jasper like an egg.

 

[Private Pyle]

I’m really embarrassed that I didn’t bring this up in my original post since I got caught up with Jasper’s episode but uh, if you like Greg, tread carefully with Mr. Universe. There is indeed backstory for Greg and some fun moments between him and Steven...but he gets the Rose Quartz treatment and his relationship with Steven becomes strained, which is worst because there’s only four episodes to wrap everything up. I cannot stress that the Jasper episode really saved this Friday’s batch.

 

[SteelPlatedHeart]

I’m really embarrassed that I didn’t bring this up in my original post since I got caught up with Jasper’s episode but uh, if you like Greg, tread carefully with Mr. Universe. There is indeed backstory for Greg and some fun moments between him and Steven...but he gets the Rose Quartz treatment and his relationship with Steven becomes strained, which is worst because there’s only four episodes to wrap everything up. I cannot stress that the Jasper episode really saved this Friday’s batch.

I took it more as Steven lashing out again as his emotional state gets more and more fucked up. It’s really easy to say that his dad has it easier without actually experiencing it himself. Greg didn’t go through the tramatic stuff Steven did, but Greg didn’t have it super easy either.

Steven’s main issue thought all of this is finding out what he thinks he should do. But instead of working that out for himself, he keeps trying to let someone else take the lead and follow their lives. The Gems, Connie, his dad, Jasper...but then gets upset when it doesn’t just solve everything and doesn’t take the other’s feelings into account. So things end up being worse in some ways.

He basically unintentionally trying to use other people to solve his own personal issues. At least that’s been my takeaway.

 

[Private Pyle]

I took it more as Steven lashing out again as his emotional state gets more and more fucked up. It’s really easy to say that his dad has it easier without actually experiencing it himself. Greg didn’t go through the tramatic stuff Steven did, but Greg didn’t have it super easy either.

Steven’s main issue thought all of this is finding out what he thinks he should do. But instead of working that out for himself, he keeps trying to let someone else take the lead and follow their lives. The Gems, Connie, his dad...but then gets upset when it doesn’t just solve everything and doesn’t take the other’s feelings into account.

He basically unintentionally trying to use other people to solve his own personal issues. At least that’s been my takeaway.

I honestly like your takeaway and I really hope that’s what they were going for; it helps take some of the edge off.
But from my point of view, Greg has been officially done dirty than any other character. You know the kind, caring and supportive father he was painted as the entire show? Turns out his entire parenting amounted to “fuck you mom and dad” and he’s just the guy who wants to be the cool dad, to the detriment of his child. He want from being completely understanding of Steven’s human problems to ignoring his criticisms and projecting his past issues on him, to the point Steven calls him just as bad a parent as PD.
What really breaks my heart is people praising this for making him a “complex character”. Apparently being less likable is good because “people without flaws are boring”. Because god forbid we have one genuinely good parent in animation.
Apologies if I come off as mad, the episode just left a bitter taste in my mouth. The Jasper episode is still top notch.

 

[Muttnik]

I hate what they did to Greg. Originally, he was played as a clumsy father but not one that wasn't trying to give Steven the very best life possible given what he had to work with. Him doing stupid shit like not letting Steven know his grandparents/no school/no doctor is so re.tarded and completely contradicts how his character acted before.

It's like Rebecca and the team write themselves into a corner on how to make characters more dynamic and instead tear apart the foundations in a self-destructive cloud of frustration. Again, Avatar knew how to make characters do asshole things while still keeping them likable (before Legend of Korra came along and ruined that shit).

That's a trend I notice in a lot of sjw-y shows these days. Korra/She-Ra/SU, etc. They always have this massive problem with writing characters as assholes without being able to make them work for an audience. They make the characters as unlikable as possible without realizing that you need to be able to balance that shit out. And when they can't, they go for the balls and demonize the character to oblivion. There's never an in between.

Anyway, Spinel is now the only character I have left to care about. Can't wait for her to be massacred as well with only four episodes left to wrap this turkey up.

 

[SteelPlatedHeart]

It’s part of why I’m thinking this is Steven just being emotionally fucked up right now. Up until now, he didn’t want to go to school. Hell, in the comics, when he actually does decide to try and go, he decides in the end to not go through with it(Garnet gets to be a PTA mom at one point, it’s pretty fun). And the doctor thing was more on the Gems then Greg, remember how freaked the fuck out Greg got right after he was almost abducted by Jasper? And right before, when he begged his dad to let him go back and help the Gems?

Greg gave Steven the freedom to be who he wanted to be and trusted him to do so. I’ve viewed this more as Steven lashing out angrily because he doesn’t know what to do with his life. Same way we’ve all yelled or argued with are parents, blaming them for things they had no real control of. Hell, he was literally disappointed that his Dad wouldn’t get in a fight with him, instead of being proud of him having the courage to talk back.

And it’s not like Greg didn’t try and stay in contact with his parents, they literally never opened his letters.

 

[Private Pyle]

It’s part of why I’m thinking this is Steven just being emotionally fucked up right now. Up until now, he didn’t want to go to school. Hell, in the comics, when he actually does decide to try and go, he decides in the end to not go through with it(Garnet gets to be a PTA mom at one point, it’s pretty fun). And the doctor thing was more on the Gems then Greg, remember how freaked the fuck out Greg got right after he was almost abducted by Jasper? And right before, when he begged his dad to let him go back and help the Gems?

Greg gave Steven the freedom to be who he wanted to be and trusted him to do so. I’ve viewed this more as Steven lashing out angrily because he doesn’t know what to do with his life. Same way we’ve all yelled or argued with are parents, blaming them for things they had no real control of. Hell, he was literally disappointed that his Dad wouldn’t get in a fight with him, instead of being proud of him having the courage to talk back.

And it’s not like Greg didn’t try and stay in contact with his parents, they literally never opened his letters.

Not going to lie, your takes make the new episodes much easier to swallow.
I think one of my main problems is that it’s all too one sided; Greg being the buddy parent now combined with Steven’s admittedly justified rant paints him too much as a complete fuck up who ruined his kid and now Steven is justified in not liking him anymore. Not helping is the explicit comparisons to Pink Diamond.
If I were to rewrite it, I’d still have Greg be the same loving parent but keep Steven’s lash out. Then Greg could argue that while he could have tried to push for more normalcy and definitely let too many things slide in the past, a normal life wouldn’t prepare him for being half gem and there are just some things he can’t prepare for; what is important is that he loves and supports Steven. It’s not that good but I feel both sides have a point and there’s actual nuance, rather than Greg ignoring Steven’s plight for the sake of deconstruction.

 

[SteelPlatedHeart]

Loooooooota of people on Twitter wanting Diamond Steven to fuck them. Channeling that Steg energy, it seems.

Not going to lie, your takes make the new episodes much easier to swallow.
I think one of my main problems is that it’s all too one sided; Greg being the buddy parent now combined with Steven’s admittedly justified rant paints him too much as a complete fuck up who ruined his kid and now Steven is justified in not liking him anymore. Not helping is the explicit comparisons to Pink Diamond.
If I were to rewrite it, I’d still have Greg be the same loving parent but keep Steven’s lash out. Then Greg could argue that while he could have tried to push for more normalcy and definitely let too many things slide in the past, a normal life wouldn’t prepare him for being half gem and there are just some things he can’t prepare for; what is important is that he loves and supports Steven. It’s not that good but I feel both sides have a point and there’s actual nuance, rather than Greg ignoring Steven’s plight for the sake of deconstruction.

Best way to recontextualize it? Look at it not on its own, but with all the Future episodes as a whole, like his attempts to propose to Connie, or going off to train with Jasper. You’ll see the pattern I was talking about more clearly with him trying to attach more to certain people and follow their lead only for it to backfire. The show works best seeing multiple episodes in gropes instead of long gaps between episodes.

Oh, and avoid any social media takes. For obvious reasons.

Also, remember that Stevens been “angry teen lashing out” a lot lately. So this is just another instance of handling his anger badly.

 

[Private Pyle]

Loooooooota of people on Twitter wanting Diamond Steven to fuck them. Channeling that Steg energy, it seems.

Best way to recontextualize it? Look at it not on its own, but with all the Future episodes as a whole, like his attempts to propose to Connie, or going off to train with Jasper. You’ll see the pattern I was talking about more clearly with him trying to attach more to certain people and follow their lead only for it to backfire. The show works best seeing multiple episodes in gropes instead of long gaps between episodes.

Oh, and avoid any social media takes. For obvious reasons.

Also, remember that Stevens been “angry teen lashing out” a lot lately. So this is just another instance of handling his anger badly.

I suppose that’s an analytical way of looking at it. I just find it cruelly ironic that throughout the entire show, Greg was presented as a seeming fuck up but actually was a pretty good parent to Steven. Then Future comes along and goes nah he really is a fuck up and Steven is a mess partly because of him. Which is doubly ironic when you consider how people would joke that Greg was responsible for Steven being a sissy.
My mixed feelings about everything aside, Jasper coming back is interesting considering that we’re going to Homeworld next week. Now consider that White Diamond with a glowing pink nose still hasn’t shown up yet...

 

[One Man Bland]

Not going to lie, your takes make the new episodes much easier to swallow.
I think one of my main problems is that it’s all too one sided; Greg being the buddy parent now combined with Steven’s admittedly justified rant paints him too much as a complete fuck up who ruined his kid and now Steven is justified in not liking him anymore. Not helping is the explicit comparisons to Pink Diamond.
If I were to rewrite it, I’d still have Greg be the same loving parent but keep Steven’s lash out. Then Greg could argue that while he could have tried to push for more normalcy and definitely let too many things slide in the past, a normal life wouldn’t prepare him for being half gem and there are just some things he can’t prepare for; what is important is that he loves and supports Steven. It’s not that good but I feel both sides have a point and there’s actual nuance, rather than Greg ignoring Steven’s plight for the sake of deconstruction.

I get what they were trying to go for with the parallels to Pink Diamond, and if those parallels are meant to be even a little more direct then it definitely doesn’t paint a pretty picture of Greg’s home life, and I get that the writers are trying to show that where Greg and Pink no freedom Steven maybe had too much, and that this is supposed to be a low point for Steven, and I did always think it was weird that while Steven and The Gems were off in an actual house, Greg was still sleeping in a van (because... Pearl didn’t like being around him or something? I’ve always been super fuzzy about why for how this family’s living arrangement worked) none of that felt like it came together organically.

I think the issue is a combination of Steven often being written as kinda ego-centric in a way that feels unintentional - namely with how I’ve always felt that he tends to across as a little obliviously insensitive despite the show insisting that he’s the deeply empathetic one - and that the show itself, in an effort to make conflicts complicated and viewed through shades of grey, just makes the show’s view on what the audience is supposed to take away from the message is just plain confusing. The example that always comes to mind is how the Diamonds are often painted as being sympathetic despite having been shown as abusively controlling towards Pink on top of the mile long list of Gem war crimes they’ve committed, but Sour Cream’s generic dead beat dad is the only parent who’s okay to cut out of his life.

In this case, Steven comes across a dismissive of his dad’s own background despite because he wants to find an outside source to blame despite most of what he’s gone likely being unavoidable no matter what Greg did - though I optimistically interpret that as actually being intentional this time around - their efforts to show Greg doesn’t have all the answers and put a spotlight on some of his questionable choices when raising Steven also presents the implication that the show itself think that Greg’s parenting was somehow worse than Pink’s or his own. Which is really hard to get behind when what the show presents us with is often just so much worse than what the show tells us is the worst.

 

[AveraDiane]

I haven't watched a lot of the Future episodes, but the fact they fucked up Greg's character is really disappointing. Thanks, Crewniverse.

 

[Meowthkip]

Boy are you guys making me glad I dropped this show when I did.

You guys watch Bluey? That shit's kino.

 

[keyboredsm4shthe2nd]

Future's gonna end and fans will have learned exactly no information they craved through the series, good going Sugar. Also, glad to know death is cheap instead of making an (albeit edgy) point about how permanent actions have permanent consequences.

 

[Private Pyle]

Future's gonna end and fans will have learned exactly no information they craved through the series, good going Sugar. Also, glad to know death is cheap instead of making an (albeit edgy) point about how permanent actions have permanent consequences.

The people who were craving that info have long since left the ship when they realized the show wasn’t going to answer their questions. The user base seems to be (with some exceptions) made up hardcore fans who like Greg being a bad father and Steven becoming depressed.
And to be fair, death was cheapened back when the resurrection tears were revealed in the Wanted arc, which is why it’s rarely ever brought up. What worries me is that people will use this episode to prop up Pink Diamond (“At least Pink never shattered a gem!”)

 

[Exceptionally Exceptional]

The people who were craving that info have long since left the ship when they realized the show wasn’t going to answer their questions. The user base seems to be (with some exceptions) made up hardcore fans who like Greg being a bad father and Steven becoming depressed.
And to be fair, death was cheapened back when the resurrection tears were revealed in the Wanted arc, which is why it’s rarely ever brought up. What worries me is that people will use this episode to prop up Pink Diamond (“At least Pink never shattered a gem!”)

And they'll gladly ignore the fact that she damn near DID shatter her old Pearl, who had to be taken away from her.

 

[AverageAnimeWatcher]

I think there might be a hint that Greg wasn't just exaggerating with his parents being bad considering they never opened his letters.

That being said, yeah, this doesn't look good on him at all. The show is making it seem like he never outgrew is teen rebel phase up until his adulthood, hence him not being able to let go of his long hair.

This was actually my first impression of him, but he revealed himself to be a good and loving parental figure throughout the show... until this episode that says that nope he really was a mess all along.

As for Steven, my best guess is that he is going through puberty which clashes with his all-loving childhood self. Which would be fine, for character development, but I hope they don't ruin it by implying it's "toxic masculinity".