Stimulant abuse and the Current Thing

[vanilla_pepsi_head]

The entire education system of the USA pushed stimmies on kids for years in a scheme to increase test scores. Children as young as 7 or 8 would be administered these drugs in some cases.

I routinely see kids as young as 4 started on stimulants so they sit down, shut up and hyperfocus on their fucking iPad and their parents don't have to bother with teaching them not to behave like the world's dumbest feral dog ate a stash of PCP. Of course then a lot of them need an antipsychotic to knock them out for the night, because no shit. Chewable Vyvanse is a thing for Christ's sake. I don't know about the test score angle, but of the kids I remember in the 90s who the school referred to their Doctor Feelgood to get stimulants pumped into them were usually the kids with mildly shitty behavior issues who would disrupt the class constantly. Call it ADHD if you want but the common thread seemed to be a fucked up home life or parents who expect schools and pills to raise their kids. The drugs usually made them hyperfocus on their Game Boy or Tamagotchi or whatever the fuck, sometimes a book, but rarely on schoolwork. I don't think for a second they did this with the kid's best interest in mind, it's like they gave up hope of educating them and just wanted them to fuck around quietly and not disrupt the kids who mostly follow the lesson. Better than throwing them in the padded sped room I suppose but you hate to see it.

 

[Larry David's Opera Cape]

I got redpilled about ADD/ADHD in childhood when I was shown a video in school that detailed that 60% of children in the North-eastern US had been diagnosed with ADD/ADHD at some point. Even as a child I could tell something was wrong with that statistic. I'm glad I never got put on amphetamines, and I never will take them.

SSRIs are a fucking gambit. I've taken them for a long time and I'm looking at getting off of them but they work for me. I really think SSRIs are the future opiate epidemic. They tell you SSRIs aren't addictive and aren't harmful but I can tell you I have long term damage from stopping them suddenly some years ago, and it causes a complete bodily meltdown if you go cold turkey. What's the alternative for people who are neurologically fucked up and become unmanageable or dysfunctional without meds, though? I've thought about microdosing psilocybin but there's not too much efficacy in treating mental health problems there, just some minor studies and anecdotes.

I really hate prescription stimulant drugs. They're a solution to a problem that we created, or that is to say a problem that does not exist in the natural world in the capacities we see it in now. You take the pills because the world around you causes so much turmoil in your mind that you can't handle it naturally. We live in a world that is so despondent and indifferent to human nature that it's unsurprising that so many people need stimulants and pills just to wake up every day. There's something in Ted's work about this but I can't remember it exactly. I think I encapsulated it well enough.

Spoiler: Personal SSRI experience

Not disclosing the specifics of why I take SSRIs, but even after therapy and being in a place where I can cope very well, I still need the meds. I need to cope with what's wrong with me for the rest of my life and the SSRIs work. I don't like them though. Every one I've tried makes sex difficult. Getting it up, keeping it up, and enduring are no problem. The meds make it nearly impossible to cum, and honestly make me less sensitive. This is the main reason I'm ready to stop taking them, I'm sick of the sex problems. Secondly is I'll regularly get days of nausea where I have to just stay home. I guess if you don't eat enough with the pill, this is a common side effect. Thirdly is all of my emotions are completely blunted. Nothing is really exciting or interesting, but conversely nothing is really all that frustrating or irritating. And lastly, coming off of the meds is the worst thing I've experienced. Occasionally I forget to refill and will end up going a few days without, and the withdrawals are horrid. Can't sleep, flu-like symptoms, very high irritability, really awful brain fog, and a lot of dissociation.

I have two friends who are recovering opiate addicts who also took SSRIs. Both said that quitting SSRIs was physically and mentally on par with quitting actual Oxy. The SSRI withdrawals cause horrible GI problems, neuropathic pain, hallucinations, dizziness and shakes, and more. You have to go off very slowly to avoid these things and even then sometimes it still gets you.

It would be one thing if these drugs worked well, were prescribed rarely and only to people who had problems worse than the potential side effects, and the prescribers were honest about the risk of addiction. None of those are the case. They don't work that well for the majority of people who take them. They are handed out like candy for anything and everything. And the drug companies got it so you can't call it "withdrawals" at all, it's just "discontinuation symptoms."

And if we're honest, we don't even truly know how long term the effects are from taking them.

 

[Osmosis Jones]

I have two friends who are recovering opiate addicts who also took SSRIs. Both said that quitting SSRIs was physically and mentally on par with quitting actual Oxy. The SSRI withdrawals cause horrible GI problems, neuropathic pain, hallucinations, dizziness and shakes, and more. You have to go off very slowly to avoid these things and even then sometimes it still gets you.

It would be one thing if these drugs worked well, were prescribed rarely and only to people who had problems worse than the potential side effects, and the prescribers were honest about the risk of addiction. None of those are the case. They don't work that well for the majority of people who take them. They are handed out like candy for anything and everything. And the drug companies got it so you can't call it "withdrawals" at all, it's just "discontinuation symptoms."

And if we're honest, we don't even truly know how long term the effects are from taking them.

Haven't done Oxys or any pills for that matter but that's really good to know. The SSRI withdrawals are bad and it does get to the point where I consider seeking them out second-hand if I don't get my refill in time. Longest stretch without them was 7 days and by then I could barely function. You're also right on point with the over-prescribing. They do it because the drug works, and why wouldn't it? It changes the chemistry of your brain, so it's going to have some effect on everyone. It's a loaded question to ask if it works when they don't tell you what they consider to be working. If you aren't considering suicide on the daily anymore, they consider that to meet the criteria of a successful prescription.

SSRIs and that family of antipsychotic and antidepressant drugs are incredibly effective for people who are too far gone with mental instability to either seek help or make use of help in the short term. If you are at risk for suicide and completely hopeless, a few weeks of SSRIs can get you to a place where you're comfortable and able to really learn and grow.

There has to be an alternative for long term treatment. It is widely understood that in most cases, people with mental health problems can recover or cope with varying degrees of psychotherapy only. For those who find their illness to be physiological, SSRIs are not good enough. Their side effects are frankly horrible and turn most people into total zombies. It causes a lot of users to become more lethargic and leaves them with less energy which kind of defeats the purpose of mitigating the mood disorder anyways. One of the side effects is suicidal thoughts which never made any sense to me. A medication can't make you think something. It's more apt to say that it will cause your mood to get worse before it gets better, but it's not going to start making you think of suck-starting a shotgun when you didn't before.

There's a lot more I want to say in relation to SSRIs and my experience but it'll be too much plvl. I am an edge case that needs something to supplement whatever is wrong with my brain. I've been through tons of therapy but there's still something missing. Blame the internet, blame the parents, blame the water, I don't know. There's something going on in the newest generation that wasn't there before and we have yet to classify it. Some sort of retardation or developmental issue like Asperger's but for emotional intelligence.

Back to amphetamines and ADD/ADHD. I'm not going to cite shit because I'm going off of what I know to be true. I'm also just going to say ADHD to encapsulate both types.

From where I sit, society appears have deviated too far from human nature. We've reached a point where we identify completely normal behaviour to be indicative of a problem. It is mostly young men and boys who are diagnosed and treated for ADHD. Young males do not sit still. It's not because they hate you, it's not because they can't focus. It's because you're boring as shit and they want to touch things and manipulate the world. It's what males do. The whole attitude of men and women being completely equal has destroyed the notion that boys can somehow be far more active and far less attentive in their formative years. There is also zero talk of conditioning nowadays when it comes to how we consume media.

Kids condition themselves (technically the parents but I digress) to have very short and demanding attention spans by way of the internet. We thought it was bad when kids were growing up watching 5-10 minute YouTube videos, and now it's down to 5-60 second shorts for your dopamine hits, many of which kids still skip part of for being too long or uninteresting. If you have never experienced the hypnotic infinite scrolling short videos, then bless your heart, because that shit should be classified right up there with heroine. Some nights when it's really late and I've nothing left to do I'll accidentally get caught scrolling for a few minutes before a video doesn't play and I snap out of it. Let's not even get started on the encouragement to do other things that destroy the attention span like binging Netflix shows, playing hundreds of video games, porn, advertisements, and hookup/""dating"" apps.

It's unfortunate that a household which would restrict the usage or availability of these things would be considered a hostile and overly strict one. It is doubly so that any attempt to restrict the consumption of any of the aforementioned materials is effectively useless because all the child has to do is go to <local cafe> and get on their wifi, but at least you could significantly reduce the frequency of their usage. Much like how today's young adults are totally void of any true adversity in life, today's children are completely without discipline with parents that cannot effectively dish it out even if they tried.

Doesn't anyone else treat medical intervention as a last ditch? That should be the default way to approach things but there is so much rosiness around muh modern medicine. Tell a zillenial about the opioid crisis and tell them that's why they see hopeless bums fucking everywhere and blow their mind.

 

[L50LasPak]

I don't think for a second they did this with the kid's best interest in mind,

I should specify that the test scores obessession was to make the school look better. At least it was where I went, they waved their dick about their high test score ratio constantly. They didn't give a fuck about the kids. The ones who reacted badly to the drugs and became burnouts were just shuffled into the special ed programs and treated like retards, I figure their scores no longer counted towards the school's average or something because the sped program was massively bloated and over budget. It even made the local paper at one point.

 

[Ughubughughughughughghlug]

All medicines are just lab-versions of plants
Reject Big Pharama
Embrace Herbalism

 

[Stoneheart]

That's the whole problem. Amphetamines make you do the work even if it makes no sense. Good for Luftwaffe pilots at the later stages of the war, not so good in time of peace. Laziness is frequently a correct instinct.

Lazyness is a sin...

Yeah, I was mostly thinking of more white-collar jobs. There's this type of programmer who will sit long hours and implement whatever the client wants - it usually ends badly (for the client, not for me lol). Drivers, guards etc are another story.

those programmers were shit to begin with. Truck drivers have strict regulations that should keep them from driving all day long and guards can sit around and work with only coffee and smokes-

What the medical community considers an acceptable therapeutic dose is a fucking joke and meth is a hell of a lot cheaper anyway, so I don't get why people waste their time malingering their way into an Adderall script. I don't think it makes a difference though, stimulants are far from the worst thing shoveled into the general public because they can't cope with life and refuse to help themselves.

because they made meth illegal and nobody wants homecooked meth...

Stimmies also increase your alcohol resistance, which is probably why my generation saw something ridiculous like a 300% increase in teen binge drinking.

whats binge drinking? also do you beliefe those numbers? we were always drinking in my youth. football training, youth firefighter training, church youth, young farmers, other sport clubs, even the guys who cleaned up the local woodlands were buzzed. i would guess the average male between 16 and 20 in my suburban village drunk 50 bottles of beer just at weekly social gatherings.

 

[L50LasPak]

whats binge drinking? also do you beliefe those numbers? we were always drinking in my youth. football training, youth firefighter training, church youth, young farmers, other sport clubs, even the guys who cleaned up the local woodlands were buzzed. i would guess the average male between 16 and 20 in my suburban village drunk 50 bottles of beer just at weekly social gatherings.

Binge drinking at least according to the American definition is the deliberate consumption of a large amount of alcohol in one sitting. Most people probably think of parties and keggers where people are having a blast doing drinking contests and the like, but the reality of binge drinking is a lot of lonely people sitting around at home and killing a handle of vodka or cheap whiskey in front of the TV.

Its different than drinking a lot socially or even competitively because you're really just drinking to numb the pain of your boredom or whatever latent psychological problem is making you unhappy in life. I was inclined to disbelieve the numbers myself, but as I've gotten older a lot of people I know have struggled with it (including me, at one point) and I've been forced to consider that the numbers were if anything optimistic. I think a lot of people didn't take it seriously at first because they figured it was just kids partying and screwing around and older people trying to demonize them for it, but really something's wrong if an average 20 year old is already drinking like a shell-shocked Vietnam Vet who's trying to forget the horrors of war.

It think its relevant to this discussion since even very mild stimulants can keep you from passing out even while you're fantastically drunk, and in retrospect it probably made the issue a lot worse. Kids drinking for the first time while still under the effects of the drugs they took that morning would come to the mistaken conclusion that they just have high natural resistance and end up drinking more than they probably should, and that's before they start doing it habitually even.

 

[WalMart]

It think its relevant to this discussion since even very mild stimulants can keep you from passing out even while you're fantastically drunk, and in retrospect it probably made the issue a lot worse. Kids drinking for the first time while still under the effects of the drugs they took that morning would come to the mistaken conclusion that they just have high natural resistance and end up drinking more than they probably should, and that's before they start doing it habitually even.

This is accurate and very close to what my psychiatrist told me in the beginning. Stimulants also dehydrate you, so while you'll feel it less it'll actually be much harder on your body. Adderalcohol is something I never do, but weederall on occasion is sort of zen.

 

[Haim Arlosoroff]

I stopped using it though because the side effects sucked ass. I would be a lot more irritated and easily upset during the come downs. And the come downs hit hard if you take the instant release, which most people do. Suddenly you're tired and very cranky.

I have spikey energy levels which render me cranky and paranoid anyway, I can only imagine what a chemically induced social hell that would be. I'm Canadian Sorry (which is just polite sympathy I guess) you went through that. It's the compulsion that I should be anywhere but here doing anything but this, sometimes with a deafening certainty with what I should be doing, that makes it hard for me socially when I'm feeling obligated to preform socially.

​

A clear view of the monstrous drama is sometimes a curse to be suddenly handed. This most thorough-going enslavement that has ever existed is a nightmare, and we are supplied with drugs to lessen the burden of it but never a solution to it. An inward detachment, that suddenly gives you insight into the choices you have or things you need and can stop doing, is the last thing society seems to want to allow. Drugs and more symptom management, rather than personally chosen goals and actually owning enough to decline working so hard, are the go-to solutions.

​

Its different than drinking a lot socially or even competitively because you're really just drinking to numb the pain of your boredom or whatever latent psychological problem is making you unhappy in life. I was inclined to disbelieve the numbers myself, but as I've gotten older a lot of people I know have struggled with it (including me, at one point) and I've been forced to consider that the numbers were if anything optimistic. I think a lot of people didn't take it seriously at first because they figured it was just kids partying and screwing around and older people trying to demonize them for it, but really something's wrong if an average 20 year old is already drinking like a shell-shocked Vietnam Vet who's trying to forget the horrors of war.

People call the sane men crazy in an insane world, if you can't get to your life goals then you're spiritually stuck and you don't know to or how to reform sane evolutionary goals in this thoroughly confused society of ours. We keep trying to embrace everyone and allow everything, but we only end up abandoning those who become stuck by our clever social designs and interventions. Social expectations, goals, and the ways we see each other are just so good at making cliffs where once you're on the wrong side of renting and living paycheck-to-paycheck you just cannot find the social relations or ways to get back onto the path towards a house and spouse which our biology is wired to reward and give us a sense of belonging from.

​

Social isolation, lacking any property, and being financially stuck in a rut is the new normal. Nobody is happy, and everyone is sour-grapes about the American Dream because of it. Stimulants are just going to be abused, because they cannot solve the underlying truth of it all: None of us like the society we're in and think its deeply unfair. What's fair? Whatever works for the majority of the people rather than makes the majority compelled by social pressures, which is probably far more Right-Wing and Traditional than hyper-leftists and free marketers would like.

I really wish there was a magic pill for existential angst, but mistaking it for ADHD or another novelty mental disorder is only going to hurt those who genuinely have a biological upset inside them. ADHD was what 60% of kids? That's utter nonsense. Now Straight White Women are given brain pills because their social development was socially arrested by fads of university professors and politicians? FtM detransitioners are growing in ranks and sounding the alarm that it was the same self-hatred and hysteria that fueled the bulimia nervosa epidemic of the 2000's that led to their numbers being above a small number of legitimate cases. Existential angst being over-categorized into the latest social fad of hysterically over-correcting for yesteryear's neglect of this or that mental illness is itself a problem.

 

[Osmosis Jones]

I have spikey energy levels which render me cranky and paranoid anyway, I can only imagine what a chemically induced social hell that would be. I'm Canadian Sorry (which is just polite sympathy I guess) you went through that. It's the compulsion that I should be anywhere but here doing anything but this, sometimes with a deafening certainty with what I should be doing, that makes it hard for me socially when I'm feeling obligated to preform socially.

View attachment 3249404​

A clear view of the monstrous drama is sometimes a curse to be suddenly handed. This most thorough-going enslavement that has ever existed is a nightmare, and we are supplied with drugs to lessen the burden of it but never a solution to it. An inward detachment, that suddenly gives you insight into the choices you have or things you need and can stop doing, is the last thing society seems to want to allow. Drugs and more symptom management, rather than personally chosen goals and actually owning enough to decline working so hard, are the go-to solutions.

View attachment 3249415​

People call the sane men crazy in an insane world, if you can't get to your life goals then you're spiritually stuck and you don't know to or how to reform sane evolutionary goals in this thoroughly confused society of ours. We keep trying to embrace everyone and allow everything, but we only end up abandoning those who become stuck by our clever social designs and interventions. Social expectations, goals, and the ways we see each other are just so good at making cliffs where once you're on the wrong side of renting and living paycheck-to-paycheck you just cannot find the social relations or ways to get back onto the path towards a house and spouse which our biology is wired to reward and give us a sense of belonging from.

View attachment 3249414​

Social isolation, lacking any property, and being financially stuck in a rut is the new normal. Nobody is happy, and everyone is sour-grapes about the American Dream because of it. Stimulants are just going to be abused, because they cannot solve the underlying truth of it all: None of us like the society we're in and think its deeply unfair. What's fair? Whatever works for the majority of the people rather than makes the majority compelled by social pressures, which is probably far more Right-Wing and Traditional than hyper-leftists and free marketers would like.

I really wish there was a magic pill for existential angst, but mistaking it for ADHD or another novelty mental disorder is only going to hurt those who genuinely have a biological upset inside them. ADHD was what 60% of kids? That's utter nonsense. Now Straight White Women are given brain pills because their social development was socially arrested by fads of university professors and politicians? FtM detransitioners are growing in ranks and sounding the alarm that it was the same self-hatred and hysteria that fueled the bulimia nervosa epidemic of the 2000's that led to their numbers being above a small number of legitimate cases. Existential angst being over-categorized into the latest social fad of hysterically over-correcting for yesteryear's neglect of this or that mental illness is itself a problem.

Very well said.

I'm thoroughly convinced that the antidote to the existential issue is spirituality. I haven't developed a complete and succinct way to frame this, but I'm getting there. It's interesting that you should post the picture of the dog because that's where we're at as a society. We've totally abandoned the idea that there even could be a greater reason for all of this in the name of material wealth and now we're trying to guide our own nature, and it won't be long before we're directly manipulating the human condition. What new-age atheists miss out on is that it doesn't matter if there is literally a sky daddy or not, it's the faith that there is a higher reason for life that keeps us civil and amiable. Religion at the very least reminds us that our bodies are God-given so to speak. It is a part of nature and to skew it for your own hedonistic pleasure is abominable.

I think if everyone spent more time considering the preponderance of something beyond our understanding, that life is indeed a sacred event, and that there is a greater reason than just moment-to-moment bliss for being alive and around other living people that we'd be better off. Spirituality is as necessary as socializing for humans, in my experience and opinion. Feeding and entertaining that part of your psyche feels like a crazy thing to do initially, but only because it's been driven out of everyone. I think it calms the mind a lot. Euphoric Atheists will tell you it's a weak cope to use religion or God to explain anything but it's a lot better for you than running through a life where you refuse to explain anything.

Not having answers drives the human brain mad, and you'll notice that traditionally religious people are often the most put-together and most capable of dealing with stress because they rest the things they can't control in the hands of God. The atheist simply curls up and screams "why?" over and over into the abyss without some sort of psychological therapy.

 

[Haim Arlosoroff]

Very well said.

I'm thoroughly convinced that the antidote to the existential issue is spirituality. I haven't developed a complete and succinct way to frame this, but I'm getting there. It's interesting that you should post the picture of the dog because that's where we're at as a society. We've totally abandoned the idea that there even could be a greater reason for all of this in the name of material wealth and now we're trying to guide our own nature, and it won't be long before we're directly manipulating the human condition. What new-age atheists miss out on is that it doesn't matter if there is literally a sky daddy or not, it's the faith that there is a higher reason for life that keeps us civil and amiable. Religion at the very least reminds us that our bodies are God-given so to speak. It is a part of nature and to skew it for your own hedonistic pleasure is abominable.

Thank you, I too think the same answer is in spirituality. I forgot who first told me but they said it was simply that happiness is an emotion and there just won't ever be a reason for emotions in pure rationality. We either limit our rationality to fulfilling what is already subjectively meaningful or happiness gets a back seat to the depression of hyper-rational bound-less universality where we don't matter so neither does our happiness. Reality just doesn't care about our subjective happiness and so pursuing a perfect understanding of the universe won't make the universe any more meaningful than it was at the start. Our society is built on the hope that rationality itself is meaningful.

In short we are all playing a social game we've long since lost all interest in, and we're just in it for the roof over our head and our next meal.

That cannot last, and the next great religious movement which doesn't demonize men, whiteness, or whatever will conquer everyone just out of our collective disloyalty to continuing this pointless society which gives us no heroes or accomplishments. We can only win if we sociopathically chase wealth and power and by definition there cannot be any more winners than there are already. There is no meaningful struggle there either. Personal lives are stunted, hardly anyone I know is divorcing anymore because being married is falling off more and more and most of Gen Z don't think they're going to have kids. At best there are small pockets of good neighborhoods in America with churches and parents that we can meet and befriend like survivors discovering each other after a disaster.

People need life goals to pursue, reasons to get up out of bed, and meaning in their lives. Our society either doesn't care about or hates us.

​

I think if everyone spent more time considering the preponderance of something beyond our understanding, that life is indeed a sacred event, and that there is a greater reason than just moment-to-moment bliss for being alive and around other living people that we'd be better off. Spirituality is as necessary as socializing for humans, in my experience and opinion. Feeding and entertaining that part of your psyche feels like a crazy thing to do initially, but only because it's been driven out of everyone. I think it calms the mind a lot. Euphoric Atheists will tell you it's a weak cope to use religion or God to explain anything but it's a lot better for you than running through a life where you refuse to explain anything.

Atheists have reduced all society into hedonism and endless emotional surrogacy where we care for other things rather than important things. You cannot reorder men to feel differently about things or to cooperate with things that emotionally disgust them, humanity tried better during the Soviet Union and whatever a politician will tell you about Russians they are still mostly human. There could never be cultures argued into existence without love, without ambition, without sexual desire, without marriage, without art, without grammar, without music, without smiles— & societies in which women killed each other more often than men, in which old people were considered more beautiful than 20 year olds, in which wealth did not purchase power over others, in which people did not discriminate in favor of their own friends & against strangers, in which parents did not love their own children. Atheists destroy what they don't like and then play in the ruins like mad children. Communism never got anywhere because it couldn't connect to anything in its people after the Great Patriotic War.

​

We cannot make an alien meaning wholly into existence, but can only discover and chase after meanings within us already. We are stuck trying to make a humanity with the tools in the back of our minds which evolution brought to us from long ago. If we don't than it isn't that those instincts disappear, but instead that they pour forth uncontrolled and our civilization becomes monstrous and disgusting in its feral hedonism and rot. We killed God in our society and imagined everything would still be fine. If religion tames the Male lust and the Female love-of-novelty into Holy Matrimony then we are elevated. If instead people who hate institutions argue for inclusivity within those institutions then we lower ourselves into the modern condition. We rise or we fall.

Not having answers drives the human brain mad, and you'll notice that traditionally religious people are often the most put-together and most capable of dealing with stress because they rest the things they can't control in the hands of God. The atheist simply curls up and screams "why?" over and over into the abyss without some sort of psychological therapy.

​

The simple truth is that we never care what people think until we think that people care. If the rational view of the universe tells us that we may as well kill ourselves, that it is all meaningless, and irrational superstition tells us the All-Father wants us to be super cool warrior-astronauts that shoot railguns at each other over the resources of the asteroid belt in eternal war and endless glory then which of these two are going to have motivated followers? If the first model for our world was our parents who cared more about themselves than us then what are we going to think our world feels about us and how are we going to feel back towards it?

Imagine trying to reduce these problems to drugs and then wondering why people use the drugs to numb the pain rather than the drugs just making us better citizens!

 

[urr13 account]

higher doses of Adderall (40-100mg) does give people that crazed wide-eyed look that you mention associating with lunatics on twitter.

And the combination of Adderall and SSRI's seems to make people agressive but thin-skinned, the 'cry-out in pain while they strike you' mentality is perfectly fueled by this drug combo.

On an individual level Adderall can help some people get done what they need to get done to be productive members of society, and SSRI's can help people with their anxiety and other issues. Ted was right, as always;

“Imagine a society that subjects people to conditions that make them terribly unhappy then gives them the drugs to take away their unhappiness. Science fiction It is already happening to some extent in our own society. Instead of removing the conditions that make people depressed modern society gives them antidepressant drugs."

But we aren't fixing society anytime soon, so everyones gonna have to be on perscription meth just to get through their shit job and be productive.

 

[L50LasPak]

I'm thoroughly convinced that the antidote to the existential issue is spirituality.

Thank you, I too think the same answer is in spirituality.

I notice both spirituality posts can't be direct quoted for some reason, but I'm getting a little tired of seeing that pushed as a solution when it demonstrably only works for a select number of people. There is nothing in the realm of spiritualism that actually prevents this scenario from taking place, and you can find plenty of justifications to do the exact same things under the supposed will of a God that the masses will clearly never properly grasp themselves. They'll still even then turn to fraudulent leaders, because the average person simply does not have that capacity for self determination. Those liars and hucksters wearing suits right now could just as easily put on robes to practice their same wicked trade in the name of God if they were interested enough. God isn't going to stop them, for God only helps those who help themselves. Leaving the matter up to the individual to decide is also pointless. They'll simply craft a religious deity or interpretation of God that allows their excesses to continue unabated. You may not do this in your own spiritual struggle, but I can guarantee you most others will.

The kind of restraint you're looking to enact came not truly from spirituality but from grueling hard labor and an incredible struggle to survive. The kind of misery that really made people thankful for what they had when they had time to be thankful for it. Existence was tough, and you were expected to work or perish. You can see the proof in how the nobility and upper classes of more ancient time periods became likewise just as atheistic, debauched and miserable as any modern day technopeon. God or spirituality didn't save them from being eaten alive by the same vices we're all guilty of today. The human body, mind, and soul are all built to suffer, and if you take that away from a person you really do take away all that they are. The next savior of the human race, assuming there even will be one, will by necessity need to be responsible for the most human suffering in the entire history of our species in order to save us.

 

[Haim Arlosoroff]

(╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻ ℑ 𝔫𝔬𝔱𝔦𝔠𝔢 𝔟𝔬𝔱𝔥 𝔰𝔭𝔦𝔯𝔦𝔱𝔲𝔞𝔩𝔦𝔱𝔶 𝔭𝔬𝔰𝔱𝔰 𝔠𝔞𝔫'𝔱 𝔟𝔢 𝔡𝔦𝔯𝔢𝔠𝔱 𝔮𝔲𝔬𝔱𝔢𝔡 𝔣𝔬𝔯 𝔰𝔬𝔪𝔢 𝔯𝔢𝔞𝔰𝔬𝔫

I QUOTE HOW I PLEASE (for this forum was coded in BB code)

I'm getting a little tired of seeing that pushed as a solution when it demonstrably only works for a select number of people. There is nothing in the realm of spiritualism that actually prevents this scenario from taking place, and you can find plenty of justifications to do the exact same things under the supposed will of a God that the masses will clearly never properly grasp themselves.

Organized religion is a tad bit shit, its true. Spirituality can just be getting in touch with their animal side and appeasing it, seeing it as a separate element within yourself and fathoming its goals. Turning life into a partnership where the unconscious rewards you with good brain chemicals because it is happy for you, and you reward it in reality with noble and evolutionary accomplishments because you are happy for it. Let that be the basis for some, God-kings and corrupt temples for others. There are many paths.

The kind of restraint you're looking to enact came not truly from spirituality but from grueling hard labor and an incredible struggle to survive.

Yes, restraint and focus is the key element. Deciding what you really need in your head rather than bringing the indecisive wagon-train of rot and excess. If spiritualism holds us there then spiritualism is good, if it cannot keeps us there then it is absolutely useless. People need head spaces filled with good thoughts, thoughts obsessed in the pursuit of meaningful dreams pushing away bad habits.

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The psychology of a form of mental fitness where it is less defining someone by their flaws as an intrinsic part of their personality and more defining someone by what they become after they accomplish mountain-climbing, marriage, or other goals that require sacrificing your indulgences and fat in the pursuit of a thing. People have no goals so they wallow, whether rich-in-the-past or post-scarcity today. That embracing of laxity is the prime sin, it corrupts the soul, or ruins the mind, or weighs the spirit down, or gives you bad head spaces, or whatever another way is of describing the exact same thing. We drink to forget because all we have are bad thoughts.

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Spirituality be damned if you can otherwise get a true result of scarcity purifying your mind to a task you've found meaningful. Suffer and struggle towards personal meaning, the rest of spiritualism is just excess baggage once you get a single reason to withdraw from modernity towards something you truly want to do or be in this life. Its just that people fixate on religion in the need to value that reason, to raise it up as the holiest of holies. It is all some people have to ascend the pit of modernity, we live in a hell of meaninglessness that makes you lonely to think about.

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An inward detachment and re-evaluation of what society put into our heads is the key first step, if its organized religion that is putting Thought-terminating clichés then organized religion is another excess that ruins in time in unbalancing the psyche.

 

[Darkholme's Dungeon]

higher doses of Adderall (40-100mg) does give people that crazed wide-eyed look that you mention associating with lunatics on twitter.

And the combination of Adderall and SSRI's seems to make people agressive but thin-skinned, the 'cry-out in pain while they strike you' mentality is perfectly fueled by this drug combo.

On an individual level Adderall can help some people get done what they need to get done to be productive members of society, and SSRI's can help people with their anxiety and other issues. Ted was right, as always;



But we aren't fixing society anytime soon, so everyones gonna have to be on perscription meth just to get through their shit job and be productive.

I made this account after lurking for years just to say this. I think if I'd gone down the prescription route, I'd be some sort of lolcow on this fucking forum for people to laugh at.
When I was in elementary, they were pushing the "Adderall/Ritalin is the solution to rowdy boys!" thing really hard. I distinctly remember the school, and one specific teacher repeatedly reporting my parents to try and place me in foster care because my parents argued that they simply were going against medical advice. Because how the fuck do you properly diagnose a 4 year old who barely understands the test instructions and just wanted to be over so I could go swim (It was a computer test that was like an hour long... I got bored and just fast clicked it to the end).

Here's the sad thing. Of the lads I knew on adderall/ritalin, I seen only ONE successful one and he was an older Millennial/Gen X who had a low dosage.

I wonder if ADHD/ADD. are influenced by parenting choices?? Where I'm from I've seen anything from spoiled bitches driving Porches who crash into someone because nailcare > deadly vehicle over 3,000 lbs operation, to the "Just beat it out of them as a kid" crowd.

 

[Nate Higgers]

I’ve never taken any kind of amphetamine but I do have a little experience with Modafinil. I always likened it to “you can stay awake longer without feeling drag-ass tired unlike when you try to do so with a bunch of caffeine but you still feel drag-ass tired after that 4th or 5th cup of coffee”. Never had the feeling like I was doing manic shit or acting neurotic, though.

I genuinely don’t want to try amphetamines and I’m not really “into” uppers other than caffeine and nicotine, so I wouldn’t even know where to get them or how to “doctor shop” for a script. If I can’t buy it online without a script, I don’t want it. Are that many people really popping adderall nowadays?

 

[Darkholme's Dungeon]

I’ve never taken any kind of amphetamine but I do have a little experience with Modafinil. I always likened it to “you can stay awake longer without feeling drag-ass tired unlike when you try to do so with a bunch of caffeine but you still feel drag-ass tired after that 4th or 5th cup of coffee”. Never had the feeling like I was doing manic shit or acting neurotic, though.

I genuinely don’t want to try amphetamines and I’m not really “into” uppers other than caffeine and nicotine, so I wouldn’t even know where to get them or how to “doctor shop” for a script. If I can’t buy it online without a script, I don’t want it. Are that many people really popping adderall nowadays?

Caffine from coffee gives me major migraines, I'm not sure why. Like I'm talking unable to stand. Tea or yaupon tea is fine though... Sadly.

 

[Nate Higgers]

Caffine from coffee gives me major migraines, I'm not sure why. Like I'm talking unable to stand. Tea or yaupon tea is fine though... Sadly.

I got the opposite going on now, it fucking sucks. If I don’t have at least 100-200mg of caffeine in the first couple hours of the day, I get a splitting headache. I’ve been chugging caffeine like a retard for the last 15ish years since I was 13, and now that I have to keep somewhat early/long hours due to working in the trades, I don’t know how to stop.

I know I can taper/wean myself off, but it’s all a balancing act.

 

[Agent Abe Caprine]

And the combination of Adderall and SSRI's seems to make people agressive but thin-skinned, the 'cry-out in pain while they strike you' mentality is perfectly fueled by this drug combo.

The disorders those medications are used as treatment for tend to cause that same mentality. The medications might be amplifying that. Not saying every instance of that is due to this.

Caffine from coffee gives me major migraines, I'm not sure why. Like I'm talking unable to stand. Tea or yaupon tea is fine though... Sadly.

Some people are less tolerant of caffeine and you might be one of those people.