Stimulant abuse and the Current Thing

[Polish Businessman]

If you haven't seen it firsthand you might not understand, but it's legitimately, no exaggeration or hyperbole, disturbing how unable they've become to do anything independent. Their insanity is an expression of the fact they're freaking out but don't know what to do about it, because the femoid brain is not well adjusted to decisive goal-oriented action, it just emotionally flails until someone takes pity on them.

But what caused that change? Something in the education system? I don't think I witnessed it first hand, women here are usually much more practical than what you paint them. I mean there is an occassional 'princess waiting to be rescued' type, but it's far from the rule. Even the STEM gender skew is weaker than in the US or western Europe.

Plus adderall doesn't just make a person act nuts in perpetuity, that isn't how narcotics work, if someone is taking enough that they're speeding they're going to just develop a tolerance, or they're the kind of person who'll just want to take a nap for a few hours after taking it.

I'm not so sure. There are reports of persistent psychosis resulting from amphetamine abuse and I don't think they're fake. There is tolerance, like with all drugs, but in some people it can really 'flip some switch'.

 

[Ser Prize]

if you gotta work full time + ot it’s the only way tbh. there’s a point where physically you can’t keep going but you still have to. it’s fucked but a lot of jobs do it. there’s a point where you don’t naturally have the energy to keep going

IIRC that job productiveness is high until around noon and then plummets.

 

[Cpl. Long Dong Silver]

Women are a mistake. On or off amphetamines. White Sharia now.

 

[T0oCoolFool]

I took Adderall for years. It calmed me down and allowed me to focus, and as a result, bring my grades up. It really did help my hyperness and it quieted the racing thoughts.

I stopped using it though because the side effects sucked ass. I would be a lot more irritated and easily upset during the come downs. And the come downs hit hard if you take the instant release, which most people do. Suddenly you're tired and very cranky.

Long term, I noticed I started to get more paranoid. I can imagine that, with certain people, you could end up sounding completely unhinged and crazy due to the increasing paranoia. Being irritated and paranoid is sooo not a good mix. I can certainly believe that certain people could get online and start sperging out on social media due to Adderall induced anger/paranoia.

As for the weight loss factor, that was only the first few months. After that, my appetite felt normal. I know some ladies take it to lose weight, but you have to keep increasing the dose to keep up the effects. And I did not want to do that, so I kept taking the same dose for years, I would stop taking it on weekends/holidays to get a reset. So, that could explain the increase of women on Adderall without the weightloss.

There were other side effects, but this post already feels too long. But yeah, I can believe that Adderall is a recipe for disaster for a lot of people, especially long term. It would not surprise me if it's linked to school shooters too.

 

[Manul Otocolobus]

I always see stuff about adderall usage raising but rarely anything about Ritalin or Concreta. Might have something to do with the chemical structure being different? Oddly enough I see adult adhd people who have taken adderall avoiding it and taking Ritalin, an SNRI, or nothing but good old coping strategies. Adderall made my adhd worse imo.

Another this is adderall has been shown to treat certain types of depression.

Ritalin (methylphenidate) is a DNRI, not an SNRI.

 

[Agent Abe Caprine]

Ritalin (methylphenidate) is a DNRI, not an SNRI.

Think they were talking about Strattera when they said SNRI.

 

[Grub]

Worked with this younger dude, early 20's ish a few years back now who was prescribed adderall for add or adhd or something. He didn't take it all the time, but the difference in his personality was noticeable whenever he did take it. When he didn't take it he'd be talkative, kinda goofy, sort of annoying, but generally alright. He wasn't the best worker, kinda dumb sometimes, but he was alright.

When he did take adderall he'd be like a zombie. Would speak in this monotone voice, didn't laugh or anything would get really intensely focussed on one thing and one thing only. Would turn into an almost totally different person. He was worse at work when he took it. When he was running the machines he'd get super focussed on one section of the screen and not really notice what the machine was actually doing or if he was programming he'd sit there and meticulously place everything in neat little rows on the screen and it would take him forever to program one table.

 

[Catman from cat town]

Think they were talking about Strattera when they said SNRI.

Yeah I was talking about Strattera.

 

[MarkofdaBOOG]

If they were on Adderall they would actually do something besides being a shitlord on Reddit and Twitter lol

 

[NoodleFucker3000]

Psychiatric medications are only a part of therapy and in order for them to be helpful you also to have a patient who is self aware enough to notice any bad side effects, and is responsible enough to not abuse them, and take them correctly. Sure, many meds are absolutely over prescribed, but it's is also on patients either not caring to be informed, not keeping up on their treatment. Tbh mental illness should be taken seriously as a chronic condition. It's not like you break your leg, put on a cast, and it's gone in a couple weeks.

If you have a diabetic who forgets their insulin, eats like shit, or whatever, then no amount of treatment is going to help bc they're an idiot and unwilliing to put forth any real effort in their own health. It's the same as a psych patient who won't fuckin take their meds on a fixed schedule, won't actively participate in therapy. That's where you get this shit from.

No shit stimulants can fuck you up, hell, you take too much of anything, even water and it'll fuck you up. It's called being responsible. Shocking. Absolutely shocking.

 

[WalMart]

I take Adderall, and I think it's NOT for most. But illegal? I mean, it is pretty easy to quit, doesn't leave sexual side effects like SSRIs, and is like a demon's cup of coffee, a new chemical stimulant. No, stupid people should be banned from taking it; obnoxious people need no more energy than they have already. I think that it is more effective for depression than ADHD. I was diagnosed with ADD, but I think depression runs in my family and is closer to my true issue of motivation issues and difficulty finding joy in activities like cooking, work, and study rather than seeing them as huge hurdles. I am honestly concerned about it becoming a national issue and/or illegal solely because of retards being tossed it and going rabid.

 

[BelUwUga]

I always see stuff about adderall usage raising but rarely anything about Ritalin or Concreta. Might have something to do with the chemical structure being different? Oddly enough I see adult adhd people who have taken adderall avoiding it and taking Ritalin, an SNRI, or nothing but good old coping strategies. Adderall made my adhd worse imo.

Another this is adderall has been shown to treat certain types of depression.

There's compelling reasons the medical community moved away from Ritalin as a primary treatment compared to Adderall. Concerta itself isn't a different compound than Ritalin but a novel packaging method making it extended-release. Even adderall has its less attractive characteristics that lead to its own XR development as well as development of prodrugs. Vyvanse for example, is not an active substance in the pill you take. It is only after it passes through a certain metabolic stage (I wanna say liver processing?) that it is converted to the same thing as adderall. The thing is from patient to patient different things are going to work differently and it takes a skilled and hardworking professional to adequately manage that.

This one is tough. Maybe the fatties are on SSRIs instead? They tend to cause weight gain, and their prescriptions are also rising and rising since the '90s, with no end in sight.

Stimulants like amphetamines kill your appetite. They don't eliminate the need to eat. Considering a lot of the weight gain side effects of SSRIs you could easily run into cases where you see weight gain despite taking stimulants for ADHD. Quick source for the next bit. We already know that people with one psych disorder are more likely to have another. The preceding source supports this is also the case with ADHD/Depression in particular. Instead of arguing either/or in this situation, I think we are far more likely to be discussing people that are taking both. We somewhat understand what these pharmaceuticals do, in isolation. Shit gets wacky and wild when they are combined. Unless it will kill you it doesn't get a warning. Even then pharmacists and doctors have a terrible record of fucking up.

 

[Manul Otocolobus]

There's compelling reasons the medical community moved away from Ritalin as a primary treatment compared to Adderall. Concerta itself isn't a different compound than Ritalin but a novel packaging method making it extended-release. Even adderall has its less attractive characteristics that lead to its own XR development as well as development of prodrugs. Vyvanse for example, is not an active substance in the pill you take. It is only after it passes through a certain metabolic stage (I wanna say liver processing?) that it is converted to the same thing as adderall. The thing is from patient to patient different things are going to work differently and it takes a skilled and hardworking professional to adequately manage that.

The only reason to consider Adderall (MAS) over Methylphenidate (MPH) is that people can stop responding to MPH, so MAS is the only thing that can provide continued therapeutic benefit. Some people also need MAS because they don't respond to MPH at all and need the different mechanism of MAS. MPH in almost all contexts is safer than MAS, particularly with regard to psychiatric, neurological, and cardiac domains. Vyvanse was created for essentially three reasons 1) More tamper resistance, since it is a prodrug (they kept reformulating Adderall XR to make it tamper resistant, and people kept finding ways around it) 2) Using a prodrug improves the temporal pharmacokinetics of the medication 3) The patent on Adderall XR expired (so, $$$).

 

[BelUwUga]

The only reason to consider Adderall (MAS) over Methylphenidate (MPH) is that people can stop responding to MPH, so MAS is the only thing that can provide continued therapeutic benefit. Some people also need MAS because they don't respond to MPH at all and need the different mechanism of MAS.

The thing is we don't understand why MPH stops working or doesn't work at all for these people. This is an existent group with every ADHD medication but it is significantly larger with MPH. We're talking marginal differences in safety, hence why both are still available. Some practitioners like to simply start with MAS or Vyvanse since it is more likely to work from the start. Others like to push MPH because it is less attractive for abuse. Really my point with any of these is there is too much we don't know to have a single drug with completely known mechanisms from first line treatments. Some work better for others and some don't work for certain patients at all. You need to know the medications, know the nuance, and be prudent in giving these out and continuing to do so.

Regarding (1) I am not the most familiar with AXR but it is my understanding it works more like concerta in blocking the body's rate of access to the active ingredients. Concerta is one big indigestible pill with a hole laser'd into it. AXR is a gel cap with beadlettes of the active ingredients coated in something else. As you mentioned these are readily exploited. Vyvanse isn't perfect but most people aren't going to risk ruining their pill for a marginal improvement by freebasing it. I'm assuming (2) is the correct terminology for how the body metabolizes it. I can tell you as someone who has taken AXR, Concerta, and Vyvanse with scripts that the last has the least erratic profile in terms of effects. Your body (liver?) is pretty much always going to convert from lisdexamphetamine at a fixed rate. Once your dosage is where it should be, it should be extremely consistent.

 

[Manul Otocolobus]

Really my point with any of these is there is too much we don't know to have a single drug with completely known mechanisms from first line treatments. Some work better for others and some don't work for certain patients at all. You need to know the medications, know the nuance, and be prudent in giving these out and continuing to do so.

Fantastically well put. You must be a medical kiwi. I've never heard that sentiment from a non-medical person.

 

[Ughubughughughughughghlug]

LOL, you think Europe has less wokeness? Europe is a fag continent where you'll go to jail for saying trannies aren't real women. Europe is West Syria. Europe is shit.

 

[Osmosis Jones]

I got redpilled about ADD/ADHD in childhood when I was shown a video in school that detailed that 60% of children in the North-eastern US had been diagnosed with ADD/ADHD at some point. Even as a child I could tell something was wrong with that statistic. I'm glad I never got put on amphetamines, and I never will take them.

SSRIs are a fucking gambit. I've taken them for a long time and I'm looking at getting off of them but they work for me. I really think SSRIs are the future opiate epidemic. They tell you SSRIs aren't addictive and aren't harmful but I can tell you I have long term damage from stopping them suddenly some years ago, and it causes a complete bodily meltdown if you go cold turkey. What's the alternative for people who are neurologically fucked up and become unmanageable or dysfunctional without meds, though? I've thought about microdosing psilocybin but there's not too much efficacy in treating mental health problems there, just some minor studies and anecdotes.

I really hate prescription stimulant drugs. They're a solution to a problem that we created, or that is to say a problem that does not exist in the natural world in the capacities we see it in now. You take the pills because the world around you causes so much turmoil in your mind that you can't handle it naturally. We live in a world that is so despondent and indifferent to human nature that it's unsurprising that so many people need stimulants and pills just to wake up every day. There's something in Ted's work about this but I can't remember it exactly. I think I encapsulated it well enough.

Spoiler: Personal SSRI experience

Not disclosing the specifics of why I take SSRIs, but even after therapy and being in a place where I can cope very well, I still need the meds. I need to cope with what's wrong with me for the rest of my life and the SSRIs work. I don't like them though. Every one I've tried makes sex difficult. Getting it up, keeping it up, and enduring are no problem. The meds make it nearly impossible to cum, and honestly make me less sensitive. This is the main reason I'm ready to stop taking them, I'm sick of the sex problems. Secondly is I'll regularly get days of nausea where I have to just stay home. I guess if you don't eat enough with the pill, this is a common side effect. Thirdly is all of my emotions are completely blunted. Nothing is really exciting or interesting, but conversely nothing is really all that frustrating or irritating. And lastly, coming off of the meds is the worst thing I've experienced. Occasionally I forget to refill and will end up going a few days without, and the withdrawals are horrid. Can't sleep, flu-like symptoms, very high irritability, really awful brain fog, and a lot of dissociation.

 

[WalMart]

I got redpilled about ADD/ADHD in childhood when I was shown a video in school that detailed that 60% of children in the North-eastern US had been diagnosed with ADD/ADHD at some point. Even as a child I could tell something was wrong with that statistic.

It is so overdiagnosed, especially in children - how can anyone say with a straight face that a child should be as focused as an adult? I also think overweight or sedentary people artificially inflate the adult ADHD statistic, blaming their spaciness on a less embarrassing cause.

As for me, despite finding Adderall helpful I am grateful that I got to mature normally first. It's unethical to prescribe it to children, and seeing this one friend of mine who is 4'11 and frail as hell solidified this for me; she started taking it at age six and she says her mother was all for it after noticing that she would finish her drawings, but it left her developmentally stunted from having her metabolism artificially sped up during her developmental years. She can't have children and there's an issue with the way her heart developed.

 

[vanilla_pepsi_head]

What the medical community considers an acceptable therapeutic dose is a fucking joke and meth is a hell of a lot cheaper anyway, so I don't get why people waste their time malingering their way into an Adderall script. I don't think it makes a difference though, stimulants are far from the worst thing shoveled into the general public because they can't cope with life and refuse to help themselves.

 

[L50LasPak]

The entire education system of the USA pushed stimmies on kids for years in a scheme to increase test scores. Children as young as 7 or 8 would be administered these drugs in some cases. Plenty of kids my age in middle and high school had already learned how to crush up their pills and snort them, and for the ones who didn't take theirs they got a nice little head start on their careers as drug dealers by selling them to the kids who took a few too many. Stimmies also increase your alcohol resistance, which is probably why my generation saw something ridiculous like a 300% increase in teen binge drinking. I remember sitting through those safety presentations, baffled as to how someone my age could put away a handle of vodka every single night and not pass out a quarter of the way through. Turns out if you're cracked the fuck out on adderol and dextro, you can do that no problem.

Pretty much my entire generation was on this shit at one point or another, at varying stages of their development. God knows what the full extent of the effects were, the people I went to school with were already fucked up enough. I hope everyone even remotely involved in the education system throughout the early 2000s fucking burns in Hell for what they did.