Stop Killing Games (EU edition) - Moldman vs. Publishers

[Neodanthril]

A few hours ago, Thor updated the pinned comment on his video about Stop Killing Games.
View attachment 6281154
This guy is so fucking salty right now that people are pushing back against his bullshit. He's even trying to run damage control on deleting comments and saying it was people saying hate speech and doxing.

no point in reading past number 1
"yes i work for a company that is publishing a live service game BUT THAT IN NO WAY MEANS I HAVE A CONFLICT OF INTEREST YOU FUCKING CHUD." is he volunteering his time or something? lol

 

[Black Willow Lurker]

Director of Strategy

I don't make any money for this, there is no conflict of interest

Sure, buddy.

2. "Why shouldn't we have the right to the server binaries so we can keep playing these games?"

Immediately abandons any technical argument he might've had (other than "it's2hard", he doesn't seem to have any) and goes on to sperg about monetization for three paragraphs.

I've been an indie dev for 8 years now and most that time I made less than Federal minimum wage.
I have just gained financial success in the last year due to the community supporting me in what I do.

So a failed game "dev" finds success in broadcasting his androgynous face to 12 year olds on Twitch. Sad.

I've had a 20 year career in the industry spanning from QA, Engineering, IT, and Red Team.

Holy buzzword. If only he had something to show for it.

Seems like at best he's a poser that didn't have the sense to shut the fuck up when he should've, and now his ego is forcing him to double down, and at worst he's just a grifter milking (or trying to, poorly) his audience for money.

 

[Übertroon]

The guy from Pirate Software is a bitch and his reasoning for not supporting Stop Killing Games is game dev brain rot tier.
"How would you leave League of Legends in a playable state? You would have to rearchitect the entire game."
Imagine being so brain rotted you think dedicated servers is some sort of dark magic

 

[Geddy Lee's Fee and See]

The guy from Pirate Software is a bitch and his reasoning for not supporting Stop Killing Games is game dev brain rot tier.
"How would you leave League of Legends in a playable state? You would have to rearchitect the entire game."
Imagine being so brain rotted you think dedicated servers is some sort of dark magic

Most game devs are fucking retarded, especially the ones that make multiplayer games. We've had the means to host not only official game servers, but have people that own the game host their own servers since the fucking 90s. It's not only unreasonable to not implement the means for users to create dedicated game servers, it's just down right lazy and also a waste of your own resources to not do so. You can make your own servers that much more efficient and use less power by allowing any rando to host their own server to a game and it doesn't even need any special code if you have any sense.

 

[WelperHelper99]

It wouldn't be a "let's help the gamers out" thing, it's just that our EU Overlords love bureaucracy and regulations

I mean I hope you can use their love of regulation against them. They DID force Apple onto USB-C (even if they gimped it if you weren't using their specific chargers). So yeah it's possible for the EU to do something good for games.

 

[Deus Exica]

The cope he has to keep slinging out is "It can't be done." Or "it's too hard." And that's literally it, neither of which hold water because it has been done and it may be hard but fans do it all the time.

Complete faggotry on his part.

 

[That Other Dude's Persona]

I like how point 7 is basically "I won't talk to Ross, he's a disgusting pleb, Louis Rossman has 2 million subs though, I can get some clout there".

 

[WULULULULU]

The guy from Pirate Software is a bitch and his reasoning for not supporting Stop Killing Games is game dev brain rot tier.
"How would you leave League of Legends in a playable state? You would have to rearchitect the entire game."
Imagine being so brain rotted you think dedicated servers is some sort of dark magic

Some games are better dead than given dedicated servers.

 

[#lurker]

Thor's "solution" to "inform" the consumer is utter nonsense. If, for example, Call of Duty starting informing their users that they are just paying for a license, it would not effect sales one iota. It doesn't solve anything.
Midwits, when will they learn?

 

[Edgy But Dull]

I like how point 7 is basically "I won't talk to Ross, he's a disgusting pleb, Louis Rossman has 2 million subs though, I can get some clout there".

Ross has a sixth of Thor's subs, so Thor hurl insults about his character and expect his fans to raid Ross's comment section to try to browbeat Ross into submission. Thor's fans are known for invading the comment section and stream chat of other content creators to try to laud how great Thor is.

Thor can't pull that stunt with Louis because Louis has the same sub count as Thor. Louis also has a much longer record of goodwill than Thor, so he's likely going to try to avoid getting confrontational with Louis.

 

[Agent Abe Caprine]

Most game devs are fucking retarded, especially the ones that make multiplayer games. We've had the means to host not only official game servers, but have people that own the game host their own servers since the fucking 90s. It's not only unreasonable to not implement the means for users to create dedicated game servers, it's just down right lazy and also a waste of your own resources to not do so. You can make your own servers that much more efficient and use less power by allowing any rando to host their own server to a game and it doesn't even need any special code if you have any sense.

Even consoles aren't an excuse. Dedicated servers were possible on the original Xbox.

 

[The Mat Harris]

funny thing is i can't disagree with a few of the takes Thor.
Personally the things i want out of this campaign are mostly legal protections from companies like Nintendo that are salivating over the idea of suing the Pretendo project(essentially a re implementation of nintendo's server software for the WiiU/3DS and emulators).

Essentially legal protection to:
-> Reverse engineer and develop private server software
-> Host said private server software
-> Modify games(this one is important because you eventually need to patch the client if significant bugs are found)
*after* support for the game is gone.

While having access to dedicated server software directly from the developer is certainly great, that software is not opensource and after the game support ends will probably have a significant number of security bugs. Not to mention said server binary will probably be designed to work under a specific OS. It will be great for LAN parties. But you might eventually get to a point where even connecting it to the open web opens up your computer to malware like what happens now with old versions of windows
See: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6uSVVCmOH5w

In addition to that it is also certainly possible that there are legal restrictions where the game publisher simply can't provide you a binary due to the use of a proprietary library. These days for example its (sadly) common for games to use rootkits(anti-cheat) and libraries for those rootkits need to be used by the server software on the back-end too. Those are typically developed by a third party. And this is also why number 3, modification of the game, is also important.

Things I can't agree with:
-> It opens up game developers to abuse by people who want to set up a private server for money
If i want to abuse game devs I can do it now. Kill the company(somehow) and then run my own private sever anyway(they wont have the cash to fight me in court).
-> Well the value of these games comes from the large community, so there is no point in preserving them.
The value of these games is arbitrary and comes from the customer. Some people like massive crowds(typically discord servers), some others like to just play with their friends(minecraft servers). Others like me don't mind playing alone(Basically the genshin impact experience)

 

[The Tall Man]

200k surpassed.
Finland is the first country to reach the threshold.

But you might eventually get to a point where even connecting it to the open web opens up your computer to malware like what happens now with old versions of windows

If it's designed that shitty that connecting to an online server for a Game opens your PC up to security risks equal to an operating system that hasn't been supported for decades then the dev should be publicly executed.

In addition to that it is also certainly possible that there are legal restrictions where the game publisher simply can't provide you a binary due to the use of a proprietary library.

Then the dev should have to pay a crippling fine for using a proprietary library knowing it would kill his game after support ends.

It opens up game developers to abuse by people who want to set up a private server for money
If i want to abuse game devs I can do it now. Kill the company(somehow) and then run my own private sever anyway(they wont have the cash to fight me in court).

If killing a company is so easy, then that in itself is obviously the problem, not that you can run a private server of their game after you killed them.

This only applies once support for a game ends. You don't get to steal some dev’s game and spin up a competing server.

Well the value of these games comes from the large community, so there is no point in preserving them.
The value of these games is arbitrary and comes from the customer. Some people like massive crowds(typically discord servers), some others like to just play with their friends(minecraft servers). Others like me don't mind playing alone(Basically the genshin impact experience)

So should we delete all these old movies that don't get watched to make storage space for marvel cape shit?
Does popularity determine the quality of a piece of art for you?
The models, the music, the textures and the writing of a game aren't just worth preserving if it's popular at the moment.



If a dev isn't capable of leaving the game in a working state once their support ends, then he shouldn't make games to begin with.

 

[The Mat Harris]

Ok let me explain some things:

If it's designed that shitty that connecting to an online server for a Game opens your PC up to security risks equal to an operating system that hasn't been supported for decades then the dev should be publicly executed.

In the case I provided just connecting the device to the internet opens you up to abuse. However even if miraculously the server software itself was perfect with no bugs whatsoever even though we know that is impossible. There could be vulnerabilities in the server binary dependencies for example the software the majority of the web runs on libcurl.

For example a while back there was a vulnerability discovered in a minecraft server that turned out to be the popular Java library Log4J. This essentially made entire Governments vulnerable to attacks.

Then the dev should have to pay a crippling fine for using a proprietary library knowing it would kill his game after support ends.

First off i wont treat this as a serious comment but rather you venting off.
Usually its just done to tick a box however the reality is the game dev space is essentially fully proprietary. Everything from graphics engines, to physics simulations, to audio libraries. Especially if you want a game that runs on a game console you need to use proprietary libraries or forks of previously BSD licensed libraries that are proprietary. It's not that odd that server software would also be the same, especially since most devs can't be trusted to for example do security by themselves and need to use some trusted external library.

If killing a company is so easy, then that in itself is obviously the problem, not that you can run a private server of their game after you killed them.

This only applies once support for a game ends. You don't get to steal some dev’s game and spin up a competing server.

The argument Thor used was if I for example use a bot farm to ruin a game by a small company. But that is always an issue that exists and any online game dev should be prepared to handle that.

So should we delete all these old movies that don't get watched to make storage space for marvel cape shit?
Does popularity determine the quality of a piece of art for you?
The models, the music, the textures and the writing of a game aren't just worth preserving if it's popular at the moment.

Again Stupid argument Thor made.

 

[The Tall Man]

There could be vulnerabilities in the server binary dependencies for example the software the majority of the web runs

I am not a code monkey, but I am pretty sure that if a game is properly made, there is very little risk of it harming your PC.
That being said, I will happily take that risk if it means preserving video games.
This also implies that a community-run server is more vulnerable than a company-run one that is managed by 20 Indians with an average IQ of 80, and I don't agree with that.

First off i wont treat this as a serious comment but rather you venting off.

I am not joking.

Usually its just done to tick a box however the reality is the game dev space is essentially fully proprietary.

If you can't buy a perpetual license as a dev, you'll have to use open-source products or products with better agreements.
Do you think anyone would lose sleep over consoles, engines, etc., having to reevaluate their licenses?

This is, once again, the argument that the entire industry has dogshit practices that hinder positive change, so you can't change it.

Again Stupid argument Thor made.

He is a faggot who is against the preservation of video games. He keeps claiming that games are fleeting moments in time, too delicate to be preserved, which is utter nonsense, you can preserve any video game.

 

[Eagle Bro]

Most game devs are fucking retarded, especially the ones that make multiplayer games. We've had the means to host not only official game servers, but have people that own the game host their own servers since the fucking 90s. It's not only unreasonable to not implement the means for users to create dedicated game servers, it's just down right lazy and also a waste of your own resources to not do so. You can make your own servers that much more efficient and use less power by allowing any rando to host their own server to a game and it doesn't even need any special code if you have any sense.

But then they couldn't ban people from their groomercord servers. Which is an unspoken hatecrime to not allow that bullshit to happen in 2024.

 

[archive regret]

Corporate Kotaku-shill (and disingenuous implicit-defender of SBI) Bellular News has weighed in, with a relatively fair take. Though he does claim "obviously we're not corpos." lol. He also frames The Crew as a "live service game" not a single player game with live service forced onto it precisely so they can do this. Other than that Bellular seems to be relatively fair to Stop Killing Games.

He provides a breakdown of regional "battleground states" of the EU like Luxemberg and Malta. A breakdown of how it'll be david vs professional lobbyists if it does get far enough, but "it's not inconceivable to think somethign will be done here".

He briefly mentions Rossman and Pirate Software (he says "they disagree" which I feel implies Rossman disagrees with SKG, even though I think Bellular's true meaning here is "those three aren't all agreeing, so there's some disagreement there", just poor phrasing). He presumes "they disagree in good faith", though I doubt Thor does at this point, I really think Thor is bad faith, Thor's arguments all seem like they come from "I hate this so I am scrambling for reasons it's bad".

Bellular does note that regulations can be worse than nothing, along with an example of regulatory capture (childcare) though he does not use the phrase "regulatory capture", he merely describes the problem. He also mentions lobbyists can twist these things.

All of which I agree on, I get so tired of people who diagnose all problems as "due to a lack of regulation" as though there's no costs to regulation. However in this case I very much think SKG is a corret step forward as the current precedent is "consumers have no rights because they signed them away in the ToS and EULA". I do expect the end result will be that games ship with "End of life: this game will shut down in 1 year" and quickly all games will say that. Still, it will be a good mask-off moment, help force people to see that we are owning nothing.

Overall... Bellular didn't do bad here.

 

[GoPro]

Here are screenshots of his early access game Heartbound some kind of Undertale like.

This is what I found about the guy.
Xitter

Apparently a twitch streamer and a game dev.
Here are screenshots of his early access game Heartbound some kind of Undertale like.

Heartbound has been in early access for six years. His streams are supposedly a chance to watch him develop the game in real time but there's been hardly any progress in over a year. Most of the time dduring streams he plays games, responds to videos, and eggs viewers on to send more money. He's one of the developer influences who milk their "game dev process" for content and do not plan to release their game to not embarrass themselves and not to lose their cash cow.

 

[Black Willow Lurker]

A JewTube/Twitch-famous web "developer" weighs-in. Started off promising, with him at least reading what's being discussed, but quickly devolved into more Maldavius-like sperging. The primary argument seems to be "companies would try to circumvent the law, so it's pointless to do anything"/"i don't want to release muh proprietary code and/or binaries"/"writing code is hard"/"too vague", and, interestingly enough, "this has a potential to affect SaaS" (fucking good, this shit should've been burned to the ground years ago, and now I wouldn't be surprised if this guy has a stake in some piece of SaaS). Also mentions some nebulous "death threats" supposedly sent to our girlboy "Thor", which hints at his general "disposition". But props for not resorting to personal attacks on Ross, I guess.

 

[WULULULULU]

A game that does not have automatic offline support (and instead uses an account sign in or required internet connection) should immediately be deleted and not archived. Those """games""" are not worth saving.